Can I give my blessing to this marriage?

[OutinChgoburbs]

How dare I? Well, you asked for opinion on a public forum. You got it. You don’t like about 90% of it, but there it is.

And, I happen to be a very qualfied catechist. I’m not quite a theologian, but I am “well on” in the catechist department. I don’t quote you anything or send you to documents because no matter what you’ve been told so far, you seem to twist the meaning of the whole thing to suit your purpose. It seems to me that, despite the fact that you are somebody’s mother, you are stomping your feet and rolling your eyes virtually. You don’t want to hear it from me. I don’t even think you want to hear it from your priest.

Please save your prayers for yourself, your brother, and that poor young woman who wants to marry him.

Why don’t you give Dr. Ray or some program like that a call, if you don’t want to go see your priest or your brother’s priest? But please- tell him all the major details up-front. Don’t keep changing the details to suit when you don’t like the host’s answer.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

The last thing I ever expected on a Catholic board was to get personally attacked! Well, I’m going to be praying for someone to be able to learn how to control her temper and not make damning assumptions about others tonight, and that’s for certain.

And furthermore, I DO know that they don’t plan to tell the priest that the bride had herself snipped. My brother said flat out that they think it’s “their business” and theirs alone. This decision of theirs affects far more people that just them!

I don’t think it’s really fair to compare a young woman who intentionally went out and had herself sterilized to infertile women, who can’t have children through no fault of their own. You can’t compare the two! An infertile woman has a condition she didn’t ask for, and that causes her all kinds of anguish – a woman who has undergone sterilization did it on purpose and is probably glad that she can’t have kids, or at least doesn’t care about having them. She had presumably healthy body parts and had them intentionally mutilated. There is no comparing intentional sterility to infertility – the intent is totally different.

Also, they don’t plan to adopt. I brought this up to him in a phone call awhile back and he said that adoption agencies don’t like to give children to people with chronic health conditions. Also they don’t like the idea of foster children either, because sometimes they have emotional problems and she doesn’t feel physically up to the job of dealing with a troubled teenager. Fact is, this woman just doesn’t like children and doesn’t want them.

So I’m wrong to feel distressed about this woman becoming my sister-in-law, my brother’s wife? How about my mother and father? They’re already worried because he’s marrying out of the faith – how do think they’d take this? Do you think us moms sit there feeling that child kick inside us, thinking, “Oh I hope my dear child grows up, falls in love, and marries a woman who doesn’t like or want children?”

I don’t see why, on a Catholic board, I have to defend the whole institution of the good Catholic family that loves and welcomes children, but apparently that makes me a monster to some here, who don’t know me at all, but who are ready to assume I’d intentionally try to ruin my brother’s engagement.

ETA: No, they aren’t living together. When I said “their house” I meant my brother’s house. She has her own apartment.

I apologize if you felt I was attacking you in any way. I am not sure about the validity of the marriage either, not because they don’t plan to adopt or foster (which is not required of couples who cannot have children) but because of the spirit of not being open to life you have presented in your posts. I asked about living together because it wasn’t clear to me, and it could be a factor in their wanting to get married, but it is good that they are not.

I know you feel there is a great difference between a woman who purposely becomes sterile to avoid children and one who’s sterility was out of her control, but for example, if the one who sterilizes herself is repentant, they may both marry validly. That was my point. Kind of like once a couple is married, if they sterilize themselves to avoid kids it is sinful. If they repent and confess, they can go on participating in the marital embrace and it is not sinful (the participation in the marital embrace, the sterilization was sinful but they confessed it so it is no longer a sin that weighs on their soul).

I do agree that they should tell the priest since it is important (the spirit of not wanting children).
I don’t think you are horrible for being concerned, if it was my brother I would too. The rest of what I think I already posted on my previous post.

 

[sanctamaria17]

I’ll admit, I prefer adult company to hanging out with kids. Doesn’t mean I don’t like children, far from it (I’m the one who wants five kids, lol). I just love talking about things that you necessarily can’t talk about with little kids (like politics, religion, etc.). Sometimes, I’ll admit, I find it hard to have patience with them, but I work on it. It’s hard!

I can also understand the adoption/foster care dilemma. It takes a really special person to manage foster care (kids going back to parents who mistreat them, kids used to family dysfunction, etc.) and as for adoption, those rules can be really strict, especially about health (they want to make sure these parents can take care of the kids, they don’t want to give them to just anyone).

Maybe she does feel guilty about getting her tubes tied. Maybe she wishes she was healthier so that she could have kids. Even if she chose it, it doesn’t make it any less difficult. I’ll keep your family, especially your brother and his bride-to-be in my prayers and I wish them happiness.

 

[JadensMom]

And, I happen to be a very qualfied catechist. I’m not quite a theologian, but I am “well on” in the catechist department.

I’m now picturing the Church Lady doing her “Superior Dance” for some reason.

I don’t quote you anything or send you to documents because no matter what you’ve been told so far, you seem to twist the meaning of the whole thing to suit your purpose.

I twist things to suit MY purpose, says the woman who assumed I was going to betray my brother’s confidence and try to start a rift in my family when I NEVER said I was going to do that.

It seems to me that, despite the fact that you are somebody’s mother, you are stomping your feet and rolling your eyes virtually. You don’t want to hear it from me.

I certainly don’t want to hear you insulting me, especially on a religious forum. You’re way out of line here – all you want to do is demonize me as the evil oppressor of women who can’t have babies, and I refuse to be your whipping boy. I can scarcely believe someone so nasty and uncharitable claims to be a good Catholic. You have heard “evil to those who think evil,” right?

I don’t even think you want to hear it from your priest.

You are flat wrong. I’ve already made an appointment to talk to a priest about this. Unlike some, though, I don’t have limitless amounts of time to spend on the Internet. Taking care of the family comes first.

Why don’t you give Dr. Ray or some program like that a call, if you don’t want to go see your priest or your brother’s priest?

Again, you’re making assumptions. I’ve already made an appointment to talk to our priest.

But please- tell him all the major details up-front. Don’t keep changing the details to suit when you don’t like the host’s answer.

I haven’t changed ANY details – I tried to be discreet and phrase everything as a hypothetical at first. And contradicting your damning assumptions, in which you assumed all kinds of facts not in evidence, is not changing details. You assumed things that were wrong. Don’t blame me because you jumped to conclusions.

Actually, why don’t you just leave the discussion? Yes, you’re the great champion of sterile women, we get it. You claimed to be a good catechist, but you couldn’t be troubled to cite any chapter or verse – other people had to do that.

So, you’re actually contributing nothing but rudeness and venom here. If you have a scrap of Christian charity in you, you should back off and not torment someone who’s already suffering. Jesus wouldn’t make a game of someone else’s pain, now, would he?

 

[bluehen]

Actually, why don’t you just leave the discussion? Yes, you’re the great champion of sterile women, we get it. You claimed to be a good catechist, but you couldn’t be troubled to cite any chapter or verse – other people had to do that.

So, you’re actually contributing nothing but rudeness and venom here. If you have a scrap of Christian charity in you, you should back off and not torment someone who’s already suffering. Jesus wouldn’t make a game of someone else’s pain, now, would he?

Actually, Jaden(name removed by moderator), I think this discussion is unhealthy for you. I don’t think other posters have been anything near venomous. I think they have generally been prudent, or at least as prudent as you have been.

Sometimes when people get defensive, they lose perspective as to what others are saying, and their tone. It seems to me that because you feel placed on the defensive, your tone has changed.

If you have an appointment with a priest, it might be better just to leave this thread yourself and talk with him instead. I don’t think anyone’s mind is going to change here, and you clearly are set in your views.

 

[maria29]

I’m
Actually, why don’t you just leave the discussion? **Yes, you’re the great champion of sterile women, we get it. ** You claimed to be a good catechist, but you couldn’t be troubled to cite any chapter or verse – other people had to do that.

So, you’re actually contributing nothing but rudeness and venom here. If you have a scrap of Christian charity in you, you should back off and not torment someone who’s already suffering. Jesus wouldn’t make a game of someone else’s pain, now, would he?

All I can say is

 

[jrabs]

I’m now picturing the Church Lady doing her “Superior Dance” for some reason.

I certainly don’t want to hear you insulting me, especially on a religious forum. You’re way out of line here – all you want to do is demonize me as the evil oppressor of women who can’t have babies, and I refuse to be your whipping boy. I can scarcely believe someone so nasty and uncharitable claims to be a good Catholic. You have heard “evil to those who think evil,” right?

You are flat wrong. I’ve already made an appointment to talk to a priest about this. Unlike some, though, I don’t have limitless amounts of time to spend on the Internet. Taking care of the family comes first.

Again, you’re making assumptions. I’ve already made an appointment to talk to our priest.

I haven’t changed ANY details – I tried to be discreet and phrase everything as a hypothetical at first. And contradicting your damning assumptions, in which you assumed all kinds of facts not in evidence, is not changing details. You assumed things that were wrong. Don’t blame me because you jumped to conclusions.

Actually, why don’t you just leave the discussion? Yes, you’re the great champion of sterile women, we get it. You claimed to be a good catechist, but you couldn’t be troubled to cite any chapter or verse – other people had to do that.

So, you’re actually contributing nothing but rudeness and venom here. If you have a scrap of Christian charity in you, you should back off and not torment someone who’s already suffering. Jesus wouldn’t make a game of someone else’s pain, now, would he?

wow- this entire post is not very nice.

Sometimes the truth does sting but nothing was said venomously.

I certainly do not see OutinChgoburbs dancing like the church lady over something that is upsetting to you. However you do need to step back and look at what a multitude of people are suggesting. And then let it go.

She is not tormenting you. I fear you are doing it to yourself.

I pray you find peace in all this and ultimately make this woman welcome in your family. That alone may cause strife in their marriage.

God bless and have peace.

 

[beckers]

I’m now picturing the Church Lady doing her “Superior Dance” for some reason.

I twist things to suit MY purpose, says the woman who assumed I was going to betray my brother’s confidence and try to start a rift in my family when I NEVER said I was going to do that.

I certainly don’t want to hear you insulting me, especially on a religious forum. You’re way out of line here – all you want to do is demonize me as the evil oppressor of women who can’t have babies, and I refuse to be your whipping boy. I can scarcely believe someone so nasty and uncharitable claims to be a good Catholic. You have heard “evil to those who think evil,” right?

You are flat wrong. I’ve already made an appointment to talk to a priest about this. Unlike some, though, I don’t have limitless amounts of time to spend on the Internet. Taking care of the family comes first.

Again, you’re making assumptions. I’ve already made an appointment to talk to our priest.

I haven’t changed ANY details – I tried to be discreet and phrase everything as a hypothetical at first. And contradicting your damning assumptions, in which you assumed all kinds of facts not in evidence, is not changing details. You assumed things that were wrong. Don’t blame me because you jumped to conclusions.

Actually, why don’t you just leave the discussion? Yes, you’re the great champion of sterile women, we get it. You claimed to be a good catechist, but you couldn’t be troubled to cite any chapter or verse – other people had to do that.

So, you’re actually contributing nothing but rudeness and venom here. If you have a scrap of Christian charity in you, you should back off and not torment someone who’s already suffering. Jesus wouldn’t make a game of someone else’s pain, now, would he?

This post is filled with such angry. Angry over a situation that you can not know all the facts about or a situation that frankly you can’t control. Why are you tormenting yourself? Why not just give it Jesus. As some posters have pointed out they could both have a conversion later on or they could have come to other agreements or had other discussion things between themselves. Some people just do not like to tell all the nitty gritty of their relationship with others. People do and can change over time and hopeful as they grow in their faith and love together they can be open to god’s will. I commend you for showing such love and well being for your brother and his soul but please for the sake of your own well being and your future relationship with your family… talk to you priest and then let it go.

 

[Linnyo]

Have you never done anything that others might have disapproved of? It is not your business - keep out of it. Some people might disapprove of the way you are passing judgement on the girl. Remember to be charitable.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

As others have said, it’s good you’re going to see a priest. I hope it’s soon. If you’ve gotten that out of this thread, it’s something.

I’m sorry you think I am presenting myself as superior, and that you think I am the champion of women who sterilize themselves. At least I am not overzealous in my attitude toward them. I do defend your brother’s fiancee, as I know people with JD. I know how doctors can be with them.

I have informed the mods. I think you have enough opinion, and I think this is eating at you. I hope they close the thread. My best to you, and to your whole family- esp. to that poor young woman who wants to marry your brother.

 

[Melo]

I agree with some of the other posters. Just pray for them and try not to judge her and her past. Maybe being with him and having you as a loving relative will bring her BACK to the Church.

 

[Zelie_Louis]

Since the OP has made an appointment to discuss the matter with her priest, it appears that a plan of action is now in place. Due to the declining level of charity, this thread is now closed. Thanks to all who participated.