Can I Kneel

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There are no kneelers? Nonsense! There’s a great big one right under your feet. The only difference is that it doesn’t make nearly as much noise and is often not cushioned. Anyone who doesn’t suffer from knee problems should just go ahead and kneel. I’ve seen people with major knee problems make the effort, too, though I’d certainly not expect them to do so.

Throwaway hymnals also make great cushions. 🙂
 
I was alway been brought up to kneel during during the Consecration,r litany of saints and benediction or unless you have “reasonable cause” not to in which case you stand and make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. and
 
I could be mistaken, but I was under the impression, from a recent interview on the radio, that the USCCB had stated that kneelers were to installed as soon as practical in all parishes that did not have them and that building churches without them was a mistaken interpretation of the rubrics. Has anyone else heard anything about this, or was the person I heard mistaken?
 
CatholicGeek1 said:
I could be mistaken, but I was under the impression, from a recent interview on the radio, that the USCCB had stated that kneelers were to installed as soon as practical in all parishes that did not have them and that building churches without them was a mistaken interpretation of the rubrics. Has anyone else heard anything about this, or was the person I heard mistaken?
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I have a feeling you are correct
 
So I can see the argument to kneel. It is what the GIRM requires and is the universal norm and does not cause a scandal (in other words, if you’re kneeling while others are standing, you get lost in the crowd). What about in the situation where a priests invites everyone to sit during the Gospel? I’ve encountered this situation and decided to sit because I thought it would cause a scene (I was by the front of the church). I would rather stand, but what would you do in this situation?
 
smndtupidisaftr said:
So I can see the argument to kneel. It is what the GIRM requires and is the universal norm and does not cause a scandal (in other words, if you’re kneeling while others are standing, you get lost in the crowd). What about in the situation where a priests invites everyone to sit during the Gospel? I’ve encountered this situation and decided to sit because I thought it would cause a scene (I was by the front of the church). I would rather stand, but what would you do in this situation?
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I understand sitting in that situation, I’d have done the same. At the same time I believe what the priest was doing was a liturgical abuse. I think the posture for the Gospel reading is set and so the priest wouldn’t have the authority to ask for something different. An individual priest can’t change the rubrics. As a result, he isn’t permitted to request sitting. It may be a good idea to talk to him about this.

I hope that helps; it feels odd anwering a question on the liturgy; especially since I’m not that knowledgeable (as can be seen by my many questions).
 
C794 said:
I understand sitting in that situation, I’d have done the same. At the same time I believe what the priest was doing was a liturgical abuse. I think the posture for the Gospel reading is set and so the priest wouldn’t have the authority to ask for something different. An individual priest can’t change the rubrics. As a result, he isn’t permitted to request sitting. It may be a good idea to talk to him about this.

I hope that helps; it feels odd anwering a question on the liturgy; especially since I’m not that knowledgeable (as can be seen by my many questions).
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I agree with you it not up to the priest to change the rubrics it not been a universal church
 
smndtupidisaftr said:
So I can see the argument to kneel. It is what the GIRM requires and is the universal norm and does not cause a scandal (in other words, if you’re kneeling while others are standing, you get lost in the crowd). What about in the situation where a priests invites everyone to sit during the Gospel? I’ve encountered this situation and decided to sit because I thought it would cause a scene (I was by the front of the church). I would rather stand, but what would you do in this situation?
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It depends. Is it like this every week or just when the Gospel is very long? Is this in a typical parish with a broad cross-section of people or in a retirement community with mostly elderly parishioners?

It’s not exactly the same situation as in the OP. Redemptionis Sacramentum states that all liturgical abuse is not of the same gravity. When it involves the Eucharist, as in the OPs situation, it is more grave than other changes, even if done illicitly.
 
Corki said:
It depends. Is it like this every week or just when the Gospel is very long? Is this in a typical parish with a broad cross-section of people or in a retirement community with mostly elderly parishioners?

It’s not exactly the same situation as in the OP. Redemptionis Sacramentum states that all liturgical abuse is not of the same gravity. When it involves the Eucharist, as in the OPs situation, it is more grave than other changes, even if done illicitly.
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Right, I know it’s nowhere near the same gravity, but I thought it was interesting. Obviously the ideal would be to stand. This is a pretty diverse community in terms of age, and the Gospel was no more than 5 minutes long, so I didn’t see the need for us to be sitting. At least, why would I need to sit with good legs? I understand the priest inviting those who are not well to sit, but why should all of us need to sit?
 
Our diocese directs that we should stand and do profound bows after the words of consecration. I follow along with that because I trust our 4 Priests and 2 Bishops that have overseen this for many years. I do personally think it disrupts the unity when people kneel in our Parish. Only rarely have I seen anyone kneel as there isn’t much room to and there is definitely no room to add kneelers so that won’t be happening.
 
KellyPalmer said:
Our diocese directs that we should stand and do profound bows after the words of consecration. I follow along with that because I trust our 4 Priests and 2 Bishops that have overseen this for many years. I do personally think it disrupts the unity when people kneel in our Parish. Only rarely have I seen anyone kneel as there isn’t much room to and there is definitely no room to add kneelers so that won’t be happening.
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Are there really bishops that advocate this? I thought it was something limited to the parish priests. I’ve never heard of a bishop saying that his diocese should do this.
 
smndtupidisaftr said:
Are there really bishops that advocate this? I thought it was something limited to the parish priests. I’ve never heard of a bishop saying that his diocese should do this.
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Yes, there are. Our Bishop advocates this as well as his predecessor. Welcome to my diocese - www2.richmonddiocese.org/worship/faqs.htm

*“There are indeed many churches around the diocese that do not have kneelers. While new churches to be built will have them, Bishop DiLorenzo is not asking any churches to retrofit their pews for he believes the expense to be unnecessary. In a church where there are kneelers, we are asked to kneel during the entire Eucharistic Prayer, unless impeded by age or infirmity. This, by the way, is a requirement found in the GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) in an addendum only in the United States, whereas the universal Church remains standing. In a church where there are no kneelers, we are to remain standing during the Eucharistic Prayer, but make a profound bow (twice) after the “words of consecration”, as the presider genuflects. In other words, we are asked to do the same gesture of reverence as concelebrating priests do. No one is being asked to kneel on the floor; the deep bows asked of us are profound signs of reverence, should we know enough to do them.” *
 
To be fair, though, that’s quite different from asking everyone at all churches in the diocese to stand.
 
smndtupidisaftr said:
To be fair, though, that’s quite different from asking everyone at all churches in the diocese to stand.
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Sorry, I must not have communicated effectively. I was NOT trying to imply that our Bishop asks everyone at all churches in the diocese to stand. I thought we were talking about churches without kneelers.
 
So when are we supposed to kneel?!? I haven’t been a Catholic long and am still learning, I haven’t seen anyone kneel during mass at my Church. We stand for the Gospel but that’s about it.

I’m more than willing to be corrected though 🙂
 
khuldar said:
So when are we supposed to kneel?!? I haven’t been a Catholic long and am still learning, I haven’t seen anyone kneel during mass at my Church. We stand for the Gospel but that’s about it.

I’m more than willing to be corrected though 🙂
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Maybe someone else in NZ can give you the specifics for your country.

The universal norm is to kneel for the Consecration. Any additional kneeling is defined by the Conference of Bishops for a country and approved by the Vatican as a national adaptation.

For example, in the US, the instruction is to kneel starting after the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Great Amen. Then, after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) until Communion. This second period of kneeling can be changed by the Bishop for his whole diocese.

The standing times are more universal: during the introductory rites, during the Gospel and during all of the times of the Liturgy of the Eucharist when you aren’t kneeling except right after Communion.
 
KellyPalmer said:
Yes, there are. Our Bishop advocates this as well as his predecessor. Welcome to my diocese - www2.richmonddiocese.org/worship/faqs.htm

*"n a church where there are kneelers, we are asked to kneel during the entire Eucharistic Prayer, unless impeded by age or infirmity. This, by the way, is a requirement found in the GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) in an addendum only in the United States, whereas the universal Church remains standing. " *
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I really don’t understand this bit. The Bishop is mistaken. It is not just in the US that there is kneeling for the EP. We kneel in the UK, for example.
 
paperwight66 said:
I really don’t understand this bit. The Bishop is mistaken. It is not just in the US that there is kneeling for the EP. We kneel in the UK, for example.
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Either miscommunication or he really is mistaken. In the US and many other places, the norm is to remain kneeling until the Great Amen and kneel again after the Agnus Dei. The universal norm is to stand after the consecration and remain standing. The bishop made it sound like the universal norm is to not kneel at all. That’s not right.
 
I think it was Ghandi in whom while observivng Mass said that if Catholics really believed the presence was truly the body, soul and divinity of Jesus they would not just kneel but throw themselves down prostrate in reverence to the Lord.
 
My mother’s church has no kneelers at all and same for the church closest to my residence. I prefer to go to the churches that have kneelers and people kneel after the Sanctus til after the Great Amen, then after the Agnus Dei til after the Blessed Sacrament is reposed (after Communion) with the break for people to stand up & walk up to receive Holy Communion.

When I go to the Extraordinary Form, things are a bit different, but the custom of the churches I have attended slightly varies as they have pews/chairs and kneelers:

*Kneeling not long after the celebrant comes in, stand for the Gloria (if it is said or sung), kneeling for most of the Liturgy of the Eucharist (or the Faithful)

*Genuflecting during the Incarnation mentions of the Creed and the Last Gospel

*Sitting for Epistle/Lesson and Psalm, homily/sermon, etc

*Stand for Gospel, Preface etc
 
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