Can I lie in this case

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And then there’s the real world where people have to deal with other people, their attitudes, nosyness, meanness, bullying, and so on and so forth.
 
Kant is a nihilist? Obviously I don’t like him, and I think his reputation as a realist needs review, but I wouldn’t call him a nihilist.

Anyway, not the thread for that.
 
The Bible records a lot of things.
A history may say, “Hitler killed 6 million Jews” matter-of-factly, but does that mean the author viewed it as A-OK for him to do that, or is it merely a recording of facts?

The Bible also records Lot’s daughters raping him, does that mean the Bible approves of rape? Of course not. Being recorded matter of factly does not mean it is approved of.
 
The Bible records Judith’s lies as a spy as the thing that makes her a hero. The Bible regards Isreal’s spies as the greatest men in their generation for their espionage, part of which is lying.

These are NOT recorded “matter of factly”
 
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No, the Bible says that Judith was a person of faith in spite of her sins.
 
So, I’m gonna need a citation, because reading that book, I get the impression the Bible approves of her infiltrating an enemy camp and killing a general who would have killed countless Jews.
 
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The noble lie has been discussed to death on these forums. Honestly, I simply do not have the energy to again convince someone that what both Scripture and every Church doctrine says is sin actually is sin.

David committed adultery, the Bible praises his faith not his sin.

Revelation 21:8
 
You will have to point out the lie in that passage. I don’t read one.
 
There is a difference between a narrative that celebrates an action, and one that condemns one.

Judith gets into the tent to kill him because of lies. If you read the whole of Judith 13, and think that the writer of that feels the same way the writer of Samuel feels about David’s adultery narrative as a whole, then we really do have nothing to discuss.

As for the CCC, I have pointed out why, because it says “lying AND calumny,” and because of the one example it gives being the condemnation of an innocent for national interest, I do not regard that as saying that untrue sentences are verboten.

We will have to agree to disagree.
 
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Perhaps you are reading into a historical account an acceptance of the actions?

And the party stood in celebration of Hitler’s victories, congratulating him with
 
The level of reading comprehension necessary for these distinctions can be difficult to acquire.

We will have to agree to disagree.
 
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michael-kaw said:
I could in the future be in a really difficult situation here. There could be a time in the future where if I do not lie I would undergo unfair criticism and laughter which I am not comfortable with. My situation is that I committed a sin (which I was absolved of) but if people found out I did it I would be laughed at and criticised and probably loose a lot of friends. If I get put in a situation where someone asks me if I did this sin, could I lie?
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Establish a habit of privacy and don’t talk about this category of things. Then when you say, “That’s none of your business. Who would want to tell you something like that, if they had ever done it? Think about how you would want to be treated. Don’t be so nosy.” In other words, make your refusal to speak a matter of defending other people’s right to refuse to speak. Then, my friend, make it your habit to stick up for other people’s right to refuse to speak, and don’t be nosy or judgmental yourself! That habit will come back to bite you!!

If they criticize you for that, well, get a backbone and stand up to their criticism. Turn their willingness to laugh at you on them. You can even ask, “Do you do this to people often? I suppose you’re proud of that? You do think of yourself as a reasonably kind and decent person, don’t you?” It is OK to admonish a sinner who is flagrantly offending charity right in front of you. Suffer for doing that; it will not make you any enemies among those you want as friends.

Whatever you do, do not lie about having never done this (whatever it is). Your lie might discourage someone else who is no different than you but thinks he or she is the only one in your circle who has ever done “such an awful thing.” Instead, stand up for the idea that people like to keep their embarrassing mistakes a matter between themselves, God and their confessor and that other decent people ought to make it a habit to respect that.
 
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This topic turned into a big debate. But we still have this nice person who opened it in need of help with his moral dilemma.

We can quote and interpret Bible verses all day long. But sometimes things need to be addressed from a simple human perspective.
 
Just say, I am a good catholic and have been absolved of all my past sins by our Lord! Then smile and walk away. If they persist, tell them to talk to your forgiver themselves.
 
Let them talk. You’ve already been absolved and in the eyes of God you’re good. Let people say whatever they want. Like Seasidechef says, there’s no need for you to go into detail, and if they assume things after that, let them. Sometimes, and I’ve done it too, Our pride gets the best of us. Humiliations, when offered to the Lord , can actually do your soul a lot of good. I would say don’t lie, but don’t tell them anything they don’t need to know. It’s your things. Walk away with your head held high knowing that Our Lord has forgiven you. If it does happen that this situation comes about and you are ridiculed, think about Our Lord when He was being falsely accused and unjustly being humiliated for our redemption. He suffered these things quietly. Unite yourself to Him in that moment. Ask Him to help you endure it. If you lie, it could also only make it worse in the future. By lying you’re just giving them more power to possibly bring I back to you later on. If you ignore them you take away their power. Good luck :)! And don’t worry, you’ll be okay. Everything passes
 
If people laugh at you, laugh with them! Why make criticism/making fun of you be a negative thing? It’s called making fun for a reason. Join in the fun by laughing with them! Nothing can stop you then! 🙂
 
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What about the famous hypothetical of Nazis at the door when you’re hiding Jews? “There are no Jews here.” is often seen as moral to say.
 
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