Can I morally dispense birth control as a pharmacist if I know its intended purpose?

[faithfully]

I do know that and I have researched, now it’s just trying to get her comfortable with it. I’m trying to get her to go to a class (which is an hour away) to learn more, and I know she’ll eventually go, but I think she’s hoping her doctor (a female) will be able to just tell her. Right now, we want more kids, so hopefully this pregnancy will go much better.

Unfortunately, most of the “work” of NFP needs to be done by the woman, so I can’t help with it. We pray every night for guidance, and that’s all I can really do at this point.

Ok… I can’t vouche for this product… But I’ve heard good things about it on another forum… I just posted about it HERE

This is supposed to take out all the “work”… Can the pharmacists here go to that thread and comment??? Or anyone with experience?

Thanks…

 

[Corki]

I wonder how a person is forced to participate in such practices as abortion and sterilizations? Perhaps in the ER? and I could see an abortion happening there, with a dying woman on the table? I assume people decide to abort instead of deliver a baby under said circumstances. I can’t imagine an emergency sterilization. Seems Doctors can opt out of planned procedures. And I know lots of nurses, even in the field of OB/GYN that work through a service. Nurses are in such demand they can easily state the conditions they will work in, and still get lots of work. Also, I could be wrong, but it seems that only the field of OB/GYN and maybe a general surgeon would be called to perform this type of procedure. Can’t imagine that a cardiologist is asked to do it. Your friends must have had their hearts set on OB/GYN to just leave medicine all together.

No, actually none was planning an OB/GYN career. Athough one was hoping to go into surgery.

I guess you would have had to been following the health care an life issues news in the US over the last few years for this to make sense. It does boggle the mind.

The earliest symptom of this problem that I remember was in NY medical schools. They tried to pass a law that ALL medical students would have to learn how to perform abortions. No religious exemption. The final version included a religious exemption and was limited to public teaching hospitals but that was WAY watered down from the first proposal. This law was bandied about as a “model” for medical school training in the health care reform debate.

A year or so ago, a nurse who did not usually assist in abortions was ordered to assist in a procedure her place of employment or be fired. She had a consience objection as part of her file that was supposed to protect her.

In Boston, when Catholic hospitals were one of the vendors for a large scale health care initiative that would have provided services for a large portion of the city, the hospital was told it would have to either provide abortions or refer patients to abortionists in order to participate in any aspect of the program.

Under at least some parts of the current health care legislation, doctors receiving reimbursements from the government have to agree to provide a standard “basket of services”. This includes all forms of family planning. (Abortion is in there too, by the way, it’s just currently supressed by the EO.) We aren’t talking about just OB/GYN doctors here but also family practice doctors, pediatricians, general physicians, internists, endocrinologists, etc. What they can’t do themselves, they are expected to refer for.

I suppose we could herd all the Catholic doctors into sports medicine and podiatry. They would probably not face any concience issues there.

 

[ab75]

Ok… I can’t vouche for this product… But I’ve heard good things about it on another forum… I just posted about it HERE

This is supposed to take out all the “work”… Can the pharmacists here go to that thread and comment??? Or anyone with experience?

Thanks…

Thanks … I’ll give it a look. Like I said, it will probably wait until after our next child at this point, God willing.

I’m praying for a much better pregnancy, as then there wouldn’t be much concern about limitting number of Children for her health

 

[faithfully]

Corki, thanks for the explanation… that’s really terrible. I’m sure there are some solutions. But I can see we are going to have to work very HARD!!!

Perhaps, MAYBE the Catholic universities that teach medicine should step up here!

And I think people are going to have to file law suits that they can’t be made to murder a person… It’s very sad, but we’re going to have to go at this with our fists swinging!!! And perhaps the church should help fund this sort of thing… I’d rather see my money in court for this, than some of the horrid sex scandles!

This problem is going to reach into many careers. Can a person be in Human Resources, that organizes health benefits, that covers BC or abortion or sterilization?

If that is controlled, then what about the ability to compete in the market place for top talent, that won’t accept such “bad” benefits?

This is a very DEEP issue!

 

[Corki]

This problem is going to reach into many careers. Can a person be in Human Resources, that organizes health benefits, that covers BC or abortion or sterilization?

Funny you should mention HR. My best friend was in HR for almost 20 years and left due to this issue and having to defend same-sex marriage in order to keep her job. She now consults but took a huge cut in income and lifestyle in oder to stick to her principles.

 

[Corki]

I own my own.

Good for you! We have a new, privately owned, pharmacy that just opened in our town. Glad to see it’s still a viable business model.

 

[Pharm4life]

And he did all this knowing the Church’s stand against artificial birth control. If there is one thing EVERYONE knows about the Catholic Church, it’s that it’s against the Pill! So he knew this going in… why did he choose a profession where he knew this would be an issue?!

We all need to be careful when making assuptions regarding other’s situtations as you can never know all of the details. I was a fallin away Catholic late high school early college in which I was involved in a protastant church which had no objection to birth control. Upon my re-conversion to Catholisism I understand the evils of contraception. None the less is my passion for my profession excluding that which involves birth control, IVF products, and other contraceptives.

So to answer some earlier comments, there is definitely times when you KNOW the intended use. Some insurance companies will not pay for contraceptives but will for medical purposes. Times like these require us to ask what its intended use is. Also many people just offer this information. So the question remains. I need to provide for my family. I love the profession. I don’t have to endorse BC use by filling physician orders. If asked my option I will offer it. With no other reasonable option would this dispensing of BC or like items fall into material compliance?

 

[Corki]

With no other reasonable option would this dispensing of BC or like items fall into material compliance?

I think you mean cooperation. Yes, it is material cooperation. It may be remote material cooperation depending on the circumstances. The line between proximate material cooperation, which is sinful and remote material cooperation, which is sometimes not sinful, is fine. Your best advice is to find a good orthodox, spiritual advisor and follow his lead on this.

Good luck.

 

[faithfully]

Funny you should mention HR. My best friend was in HR for almost 20 years and left due to this issue and having to defend same-sex marriage in order to keep her job. She now consults but took a huge cut in income and lifestyle in oder to stick to her principles.

LOL! I got out of HR, 'cause I was sick and tired of watching management abuse people to their own financial end. It’s really an ugly business. You THINK you’re in it because people should be treated well… and since they are a companies most VALUABLE resource (usually), that you’ll be involved in making all better. Happy employees work hard = happy bottom line… But most mgmt doesn’t see it that way… I found myself fighting for the most basic rights of people including myself. I can say I just don’t look back with any regret for leaving!

SO? OP? Have you got any better idea of what you will do now???

 

[Pharm4life]

Because we ALL KNOW why anyone would buy viagra… and that is to have sex. NO WAY it could be used for any other medical purpose. So, it would be completely immoral to sell it to a single man.
Yet, I haven’t heard anyone worry about this.

FYI Viagra is also marketed under the name Revatio for pulmonary hypertension. Techniqually it could be used for this. Similar use with Cialis.

 

[Bookcat]

So the question remains. I need to provide for my family. I love the profession. I don’t have to endorse BC use by filling physician orders. If asked my option I will offer it. With no other reasonable option would this dispensing of BC or like items fall into material compliance?

I have not followed all the posts…

But again I want to urge you to contact the National Catholic Bioethics Center…this is THEIR FIELD…and they will be able to help you in detail with any number of questions related to this profession…

They are who Catholic Answers themselves…refers people…

call em ncbcenter.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=183

 

[faithfully]

FYI Viagra is also marketed under the name Revatio for pulmonary hypertension. Techniqually it could be used for this. Similar use with Cialis.

In the same way that BC is used for managing hormone problems? Say the inactive teenager? I think the same issue applies… and if it doesn’t, then I feel this is just more of a double standard than a moral issue. (Although, I think it’s really a moral issue on BOTH fronts…)

Because as stated earlier a Doctor COULD lie and say that the Revatio is for his heart patient, when it’s really for his single friend.

 

[Wowbagger]

So to answer some earlier comments, there is definitely times when you KNOW the intended use. Some insurance companies will not pay for contraceptives but will for medical purposes. Times like these require us to ask what its intended use is. Also many people just offer this information. So the question remains. I need to provide for my family. I love the profession. I don’t have to endorse BC use by filling physician orders. If asked my option I will offer it. With no other reasonable option would this dispensing of BC or like items fall into material compliance?

In that case, then… I truly don’t know.

I agree with Bookcat. Contact the National Catholic Bioethics Center. They are much better equipped than I to handle questions of remote and proximate cooperation.

 

[brbgrl]

You might be interested in this thread posted by a pharmacy tech:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7029113#post7029113

 

[piscotikus]

I am a pharmacist, here’s how I handled it:

I first talked to a priest. My first confession in many years and mentioned it as a sin. He said I’d have to stop. Not much real conversation about it. But I still dispensed it. Then I talked briefly with another priest at a conference and he said since I was the middle man that it shouldn’t be a problem, but he could tell that it bothered me.

So I went to my boss and told her I could not dispense Plan B. She said ok, and I had to let the store manager know as well and I was supposed to get another pharmacist to handle the Rx if there was one there. Well I did fail on at least one occasion that I remember because I was too afraid to say anything.

That led to me renewing my efforts to be a pro-life pharmacist and I went back to my boss and asked if anyone had ever asked to not fill BC, (not just Plan B). She said she’d check and came back to me a few weeks later saying that no one had ever made that request. However she respected my position. I had to let all of the other pharmacists know that I wouldn’t fill BC so they’d have to check those Rx’s. None of the other pharmacists had a problem with that, but when I was alone on weekends, I had to.

Eventually I found a new job at the VA! 80% male and mostly from the Vietnam era meant a MUCH lower chance of running into a BC Rx. In fact the situation has come up a few times but I’ve just asked another pharmacist to step in without a problem. Most of them know my position since our VA has a Catholic Mass at 11am that I attend for lunch!

I’ve let my new boss at the VA know that I refuse to dispense Plan B, and the pharmacists know I won’t check BC. Plus I’ve taken a clinical role so I’m mostly meeting new patients, and have a panel of patients on warfarin that I monitor, so I’m rarely in the pharmacy anymore.

I feel very blessed. I encourage you to follow your heart and talk to a priest in depth. May God Bless you! And if you’ve contacted the NC bioethics Center let me know what they said! (send me a DM).

 

[elts1956]

There are a lot of drugs that can be damaging. You should also know that a lot of pain killers, anti depressants, anti anxiety, add medicine, etc. will be abused. If you can’t handle dispensing birth control, why even study to become a pharmacist?

I worked at a liquor store for a while. My first couple of days were hard on me because I would be selling liquor to people at 10 in the morning that would shake when they gave me their money. I felt as though I was doing something wrong. I ended up talking to one of the guys I worked with and he just told me that if it wasn’t me it would be someone else. Me working there or not working there doesn’t change a thing. You aren’t going to find a pharmacy that doesn’t hand out birth control. One thing is for sure though, and that is that you shouldn’t judge people that do use it. You don’t know who they are and what they are doing with it.

Either way, unless you want to give up what you have studied so hard for, you are almost definitely going to have to give out birth control.

What a tragedy it is that we who are prolife can no longer say NO, but must violate our conscience if we want to work for a living.

 

[Rocinante]

What a tragedy it is that we who are prolife can no longer say NO, but must violate our conscience if we want to work for a living.

there are lots of jobs you can do that are consistent with your religious beliefs, but if someone’s religion holds that eating swine is evil, they shouldn’t expect their religious beliefs to be accommodated when they apply for a job at a deli. if they believe that alcohol consumption is evil, they shouldn’t expect to be accommodated when they apply for a job at a liquor store. if someone’s religion holds that they can’t work on weekends, they shouldn’t expect to be accommodated in looking for work at a night club.

this isn’t about religious freedom. it is the religion that is restricting the adherent’s freedom to do a job rather than the job restricting someone’s right to practice their religion.

 

[Rocinante]

I am a pharmacist, here’s how I handled it:

I first talked to a priest. My first confession in many years and mentioned it as a sin. He said I’d have to stop. Not much real conversation about it. But I still dispensed it. Then I talked briefly with another priest at a conference and he said since I was the middle man that it shouldn’t be a problem, but he could tell that it bothered me.

So I went to my boss and told her I could not dispense Plan B. She said ok, and I had to let the store manager know as well and I was supposed to get another pharmacist to handle the Rx if there was one there. Well I did fail on at least one occasion that I remember because I was too afraid to say anything.

That led to me renewing my efforts to be a pro-life pharmacist and I went back to my boss and asked if anyone had ever asked to not fill BC, (not just Plan B). She said she’d check and came back to me a few weeks later saying that no one had ever made that request. However she respected my position. I had to let all of the other pharmacists know that I wouldn’t fill BC so they’d have to check those Rx’s. None of the other pharmacists had a problem with that, but when I was alone on weekends, I had to.

Eventually I found a new job at the VA! 80% male and mostly from the Vietnam era meant a MUCH lower chance of running into a BC Rx. In fact the situation has come up a few times but I’ve just asked another pharmacist to step in without a problem. Most of them know my position since our VA has a Catholic Mass at 11am that I attend for lunch!

I’ve let my new boss at the VA know that I refuse to dispense Plan B, and the pharmacists know I won’t check BC. Plus I’ve taken a clinical role so I’m mostly meeting new patients, and have a panel of patients on warfarin that I monitor, so I’m rarely in the pharmacy anymore.

I feel very blessed. I encourage you to follow your heart and talk to a priest in depth. May God Bless you! And if you’ve contacted the NC bioethics Center let me know what they said! (send me a DM).

what interests me about this account is that there is nothing here that discouraged anyone from using birth control. it was an inconvenience to you, but did nothing for the cause. so i’m wondering what the point is to the refusal. what could it accomplish?

maybe if patients were aware of your refusal it might give them pause, but i assume that they were not to be made aware of your moral objection. maybe if enough pharmacists refused it would start to make a difference because pharmacies would run out of pharmacists. is that the idea? not sure if that would even work though.

anyway, it was interesting to hear your story. i had never thought about the troubles of catholic pharmacists before.

rocinante

 

[NE_Catholic]

what a sticky wicket.

Since you aren’t the one using or prescribing them, it’s kinda iffy.
Plus, the people getting them aren’t all Catholic or even religious.

Will they go else where?
yes.

what a grey area

 

[Calvin_95]

I am graduating pharmacy school this May and am searching high and low for a community (retail) pharmacy position that would not involve birth control. I’ve found only a hand full of pharmacies across the country that are Prolife so my best shot is finding an outpatient pharmacy associated with a Catholic Hospital but some of these still dispense birth control. So, if I am unable to find a job without dispensing birth control, can I dispense birth control under material compliance? If I were to start a career including dispensing birth control would I be obligated to move my family if a different position opened and at what cost/distance? Personally my conscience is leading me that I could have a positive impact in a retail setting by informing patients and coworkers about the negative effects/mechanism of action of birth control and by offering alternatives if the opportunity would arise.

Falling the Catholic Church may cost you everything. So do you put your career above your faith? Do you compromise your faith? Did you not think before entering into this field that this might be a probablility? if you truly believe your faith, then you must be willing to sacrafice anything to maintain its principals. You know this is true; you just want someone to validate what you really want to do, which is to violate what you know your faith teaches. If you look hard and long enough you will find others who have already compromised and give you the green-light you are seeking.

That’s my 2 cents from a non-catholic. From a different perspective; distributing birth control that does not creat abortion, but only prevents pregnacy (i.e. RU486) is not prohibited by Scripture; Scripture is silent on the subject so it becomes amatter onconscience, but not on the subject of murder, which abortion or the killing of the fetus (i.e. RU486) would violate God’s word.

if I were a Pharmacist; I would have no problem distributing birth-control, but you would have to fire me or cut off my hands before I would distribute a RU486 pill. As a Christian that is one field I would never even consider.

Perhaps you could take your degree to the next level and become a doctor with your own practice or find a practice where you will be in the businss of helping others recover from illness.

Just a thought, but don’t look for validation that goes against your conscience because you will find it if you seek for it long enough. I know that is tough to listen to, but in your hert of hearts you know it is true and that you are seeking validation.