Can I still call myself Catholic?

[Della]

As one who has read both the “92” and “94” Catechesim cover to cover mutiple times, I would agree hat it is NOT the document that tose strugling to understand our believes ough to try to read.

In fact, it was written as a resouce for clerics to better understand and teach of specific topics.

However there is now a ***Compendium to the CCC [2006] *** about 1/4 the size and in a very friendly Q & A format that is excellent, and would be a tool to suggest.

The real issues it seems to me is for one to overcome ones pride and preconceived notions of personal authority to hold opinions not in conformity with the Church, without even having researched them, as to what we actually hold as true and on what basis do we hold these truths. Truth is NOT arbritary; it is alwayus based on FACT.

In other words deying, without really understanding why they are denying these positions, other than it “doesen’t feel right” to me, or it “makes my life too complcated” or simply, and most often, “I Just don’t want to accept this or that.”

God gives us only ONE life to get it right It sems to me prudent, to at least invest and investigate what positions we choose to hold, BEFORE denying them

God will judge us on what He has permitted us, OPPORTUNITY to know, as being fully equal to what we choose to “know”

Love and prayers,

Pat

I guess our parish shouldn’t have promoted the laity getting the CCC and reading it, then.

Really, maybe I’m alone here, or maybe it’s my age–I was educated in the 50’s in basic reading skills–but I don’t find the CCC all that difficult. And if one cannot grasp the meaning there are resources to help one understand. Frankly, modern people are just plain lazy. We want everything handed to us on a silver platter with a bow. Where is the thirst for truth, the burning desire to please God above all else, the humility to bow to proper authority? Our age is a slothful one, and it shows in the way people rely on their feelings instead of on the truth. I find that very, very sad.

 

[jmcrae]

There are those who leave the Church because they do not know what the Church teaches…

In reading Char’s first post I see that she does understand that the Church teaches that Mary was a virgin her entire life, she doesn’t accept Purgatory, nor the sacraments. She disagrees with the Church’s position on gay marriage, and no women priests, etc.

She is not acting out of misunderstanding what the Church teaches. She is rejecting those teachings.

Yes, but not on an informed basis. Reading the Catechism on these various subjects would give her an insight into the reasons behind these things.

 

[michaeldaniels]

The Baltimore Catechism is a great place to start!

I don’t think the CCC would be my first choice in learning about the the Catholic faith. It would be to much like trying to read a dictionary in order to learn a language.

I am grateful for the CCC when someone makes a statement about what they think the Catholic Church teaches and what She in reality teaches.

However, for those who really want to delve into what the Church is about the CCC is a great reference.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

The Baltimore Catechism is a great place to start!

I agree, it is much more readable. I am using it in the RCIA class I teach this year. The Catechism (and even the Compendium) are much too difficult for this particular group of candidates, some of whom have difficulties reading.

The problem I see with the Baltimore Catechism for the original poster of this thread (and for others in similar circumstances, who are questioning or doubting doctrine) is that the Baltimore Catechism states our beliefs as facts (not a bad thing) but doesn’t give much explanation or rationale behind them. That’s where apologetics materials specifically geared toward answering challenging questions (such as the tracts on the Catholic Answers website) come in handy.

 

[HelenRose]

I guess our parish shouldn’t have promoted the laity getting the CCC and reading it, then.

Really, maybe I’m alone here, or maybe it’s my age–I was educated in the 50’s in basic reading skills–but I don’t find the CCC all that difficult. And if one cannot grasp the meaning there are resources to help one understand. Frankly, modern people are just plain lazy. We want everything handed to us on a silver platter with a bow. Where is the thirst for truth, the burning desire to please God above all else, the humility to bow to proper authority? Our age is a slothful one, and it shows in the way people rely on their feelings instead of on the truth. I find that very, very sad.

I don’t find the CCC all that difficult either but I think that your approach here is not very helpful.

It confuses the issue when people are trying to find answers to insinuate that they are slothful.

 

[HelenRose]

I agree, it is much more readable. I am using it in the RCIA class I teach this year. The Catechism (and even the Compendium) are much too difficult for this particular group of candidates, some of whom have difficulties reading.

The problem I see with the Baltimore Catechism for the original poster of this thread (and for others in similar circumstances, who are questioning or doubting doctrine) is that the Baltimore Catechism states our beliefs as facts (not a bad thing) but doesn’t give much explanation or rationale behind them. That’s where apologetics materials specifically geared toward answering challenging questions (such as the tracts on the Catholic Answers website) come in handy.

It is like teaching math. Do you teach the ‘times table’ by rote or do you teach the theories behind the ‘times table’. Both approaches are valid given needs of the students who are involved.

It helps to know by rote that 4X4 = 16 with out having to figure it out every time you many need the answer.

A successful teacher will incorporate both methods.
Memorizing is a skill that I did not develop because the school system at the time I grew up had come to the conclusion that “rote” learning was not good.

However, my Great Aunt had me memorize poetry. Those poems have remained alway in my mind.

Memorizing can be a great help in learning Church doctrine and I believe that is the method that is used by the Baltimore Catechism. If one follows up with the CCC and other writings of the Church the ones understanding grows.

All this takes time and patience and an understanding of what children and young people are facing.

 

[Della]

I don’t find the CCC all that difficult either but I think that your approach here is not very helpful.

It confuses the issue when people are trying to find answers to insinuate that they are slothful.

I calls 'em as I sees 'em. Of course, I’m talking about our society as a whole, not necessarily about anyone here.

 

[PJM]

=Della;6155644]I guess our parish shouldn’t have promoted the laity getting the CCC and reading it, then.

Really, maybe I’m alone here, or maybe it’s my age–I was educated in the 50’s in basic reading skills–but I don’t find the CCC all that difficult. And if one cannot grasp the meaning there are resources to help one understand. Frankly, modern people are just plain lazy. We want everything handed to us on a silver platter with a bow. Where is the thirst for truth, the burning desire to please God above all else, the humility to bow to proper authority? Our age is a slothful one, and it shows in the way people rely on their feelings instead of on the truth. I find that very, very sad.

There is great wisdom in what you share.

When the “92” came out my wife and purchased a very large quanity of them and sold them to families after Mass. We sold hundreds at our wholesale actual cost. I’d be willing to bet a coffee * that not more than a dozen wer read.

Love and prayers,
Pat*

 

[Apryl]

I suggest you try researching it online to see what I mean.

What is the advantage to researching it online? I have a hard copy (with many worn pages, I might add). I have a link to an online version.

But what is it about the online version that you think would offer some insight that I do not have?

… and I still say that it’s a good tool, but not the best, when dealing with some one who is not already in that general direction.


Hey, it’s MY opinion. I am not giving it up for any one else (as I’m sure you won’t give up yours)

 

[Apryl]

The Baltimore Catechism is a great place to start!

So true!

I would even suggest getting the ones that are set up for the CHILDREN, like the Primary Grades. That is much more palatable than is the CCC!

 

[PJM]

=jmcrae;6155880]Yes, but not on an informed basis. Reading the Catechism on these various subjects would give her an insight into the reasons behind these things.

***We don’t know if Char is uniformed or misinformed, or some of each? What we do know is that Divine Providence has placed us into her life to help her, IF she will allow us too?

The issue of the Catechesim is I suspect moot, as she seems reluctant to pursue this avenue? Let’s see if we can encourage her, and get her to address one isue at a time.

There are background facts of which we are unaware. Holding this many errant positions and then posting on this Forum, does not seem to be, at least to me, like someone, not questioning her beliefs?

Our role is cetainly to give advice, but more importantly it is to love and encourage, and pray for her to ask real questions and then be open, with God’s intervention, to the truth.

Love and prayers,

Pat ***

 

[HelenRose]

***We don’t know if Char is uniformed or misinformed, or some of each? What we do know is that Divine Providence has placed us into her life to help her, IF she will allow us too?

The issue of the Catechesim is I suspect moot, as she seems reluctant to pursue this avenue? Let’s see if we can encourage her, and get her to address one isue at a time.

There are background facts of which we are unaware. Holding this many errant positions and then posting on this Forum, does not seem to be, at least to me, like someone, not questioning her beliefs?

Our role is cetainly to give advice, but more importantly it is to love and encourage, and pray for her to ask real questions and then be open, with God’s intervention, to the truth.

Love and prayers,

Pat ***

Pat, I do appreciate your comments. It is so easy to go off on tangents. I am forever doing that. Thank for bringing this back on track.

 

[Andrew1983]

I have read a little bit of this thread at the beginning and find the topic to be of some interest in my own personal matter.

I currently do not practice any religion in the traditional sense of the meaning (attending worship services, observing feasts and other traditions handed down throughout the centuries).

It has been approximately 11 years since my confirmation as Catholic and in hind-sight, I feel that my confirmation is an error and akin to an effrontery to El Shaddai, not through perhaps anyone’s fault in particular save my own.

I went through with it either because I felt it was expected of me, was predetermined, etc., but perhaps not with purity of intent. After all, I can’t even determine a time when I regularly attended Mass post-Confirmation. I went to a few services spread throughout the years, but nothing substantial.

Now, before anyone misinterprets what I’m trying to type, I need to expand on several things, not excuse-making per se, but I’m curious as to how other fellow Generation X’ers have fared in terms of understanding the religion that they were raised with. Are the CCD classes of the 1990s and today of the same quality as those of the ones that were taught in the 1960s-1970s, or going back farther, the ones of the 1930s-1940s. I need to know if there are some fundamental disconnects with my generation’s perception of God, Duties, and General Morality due to a lack of proper religious instruction or an extremely watered down catechism being taught to children.

I’m concerned by this because it seems that every fallen away catholic seems to have a severe lack of the true understanding of the Christian concept of God. It’s very apparent especially with atheists that through self admission can’t tell the difference between The LORD GOD, Zeus, Amon-Ra, etc. Somehow they equate the the true God as being another Deification of either Elemental Nature or Human Nature, (i.e. Venus, goddess of love), as opposed to being the measure of what we are to gauge as goodness in the universe. The absurd attempts of likening God to a flying spaghetti monster shows that the individual making the comparison is literally unable to define the existence of the universe other than by what their senses record (basically, there is nothing beyond our current physical plane).

I’ve never fallen away from my ability of reason to that depth, but just the same, I felt/feel that many of the more ‘socially unacceptable’ teachings whether biblical or church catechism, (by the mores of today’s American youth / young adult culture) was were out of date (temporary laws suited for the time that they were written), or just didn’t make sense. And let’s be perfectly honest, most of what the current generation is rebelling against deals with the morality of sex. Whether it’s masturbation, homosexuality, fornication, abortion or pornography, almost everyone is in agreement with at least one of these positions. And thus, the argument becomes a matter of the sanctity of life versus the quality of life. To the best of my knowledge, the Church argues in favor of the sanctity of life, whereas everyone else it seems, believes quality of life trumps sanctity.

How is it that the kids in CCD, myself included to perhaps a lesser extent (never fornicated, strongly disagree with altering the concept of marriage to be extended to anything outside of a male/female arrangement, consider abortion to be the worst form of murder one can inflict) still wind up with having some beliefs running contrary to Church Doctrine? Are things simply no longer properly explained or what?

Other things that people seem to not truly understand are the Sacraments such as receiving the Eucharist. To them it’s nothing more than a circular wafer that may hold some symbolic meaning, but that’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. The same thing holds true in terms of Confession (I’ve also heard a former Protestant argue this), “Why do I need to tell a priest my sins and not go direct to God. After all, if no one’s perfect and we’re all sinners, what’s so special that I need to go through an intercessor?” My own personal thoughts on this has more to do with being able to humble oneself before another, almost a test of sincere confession of wrongdoing. I could also be very wrong.

The last argument which I’ve seen come up involves taking biblical passages out of context and trying to portray the ancient Israelites as the ‘Nazis of the Middle East’ from Exodus to 2 Samuel for the eradication of several Canaanite peoples without so much as really having a clue as to the history surrounding the events. (Also it should be noted that the Old Testament does a pretty good job of laying it on the House of Jacob and showing just how fallen they had become requiring the conquest of the Northern Kingdom, and then the Exile of the Southern Kingdom for purification of Israel (perhaps evidence that may lend credence to the concept of Purgatory).

 

[Andrew1983]

Now, if you’ve read through all of that post and didn’t get lost, I thank you. I felt that it was necessary to illustrate where I am spiritually and some of the influences that have shaped my current disposition.

With that out of the way, I need to return to my own personal refrain from identifying as Catholic or even Christian. It is not of arrogance or hatred for the Lord, my God. On the contrary, I have been reading two bibles (JPS Tanakh, and NAB Official Catholic Edition, 1981) since the beginning of spring, 2009 and am about 2/3s of the way. Through the experiences of going through the Old Testament, I have cleared away much of the initial misrepresentations that my generation has embraced and learned so much more. True, many bad things did happen, many of those whom God called into service reneged on their allegiance to His Majesty, but I also see the Good that came from such adversity and the foundations of right and wrong. More importantly, the unfailing faith of Joseph in Genesis, the courage of the prophets against the corruption of the Israelite and Judahite monarchies, the knowledge recorded in the Wisdom Books (Sirach specifically) inspire more Hope then detract from it.

But the thing that gets me most is that no matter how terrible and vile the house of Israel became, even to the point of surpassing the five wretched cities of which Sodom and Gomorrah were part of, God never gave up on them and continued to restore them no matter how far they fell. Even though I’m still in the Old Testament, going in with the idea of having thrown out all I had learned in Catholicism and any other prior exposure to Christianity, Isaiah 53 really says all that needs to be said. Upon reading that, I simply cannot understand any further rejection to the notion that the Son is simply another one of the Lord’s Annointed, but that He is the Lord himself, even if only a flesh-man avatar to whom we can relate to on such a direct level the same way I can talk to a person face to face. To carry the burden of the World on his back while not succumbing to it, nor becoming bitter or resentful from it, is this something that only God is capable of?

And, in the end, I suppose that’s what bothers me. If to be the ideal Christian in the truest sense of the word (and by default to have an attitude of being ‘open to all’ as the term catholic implies), I have consciously failed the King. In a current state of spiritual impurity, it is a blaspheme to call oneself what he or she is not.

It’s true, I could go simply return to a state of going through the motions of what is expected, but if the interior does not match the exterior action, whether by intention or ignorance, then I have committed a false worship and have mocked God.

Henceforth, I have attempted to correct my own inadequacies as to the dictates of my conscience despite the challenge (which apparently is easier said than done) of continuously stumbling around in the dark. What matters isn’t how many times a person keeps falling down, but that he or she make an effort to get back up each time and continue to balance and steady myself that they may fall no more. When I have finally and truly freed myself from this unfortunate hedonist tendency, and have come into full understanding, perhaps then I will be able to re-embrace my lost Catholicism and fulfill His Majesty’s ideal of a Christian.

 

[Vasian]

All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.
We are capable of sinning every hour of the day and mentally in sleep.
That is why Christ died a propitiatory sacrifice for all of mankind.
Never will you be perfect enough without believing and accepting that Christ has sacrificed even for you, washing you clean of your sins everytime you ask for forgiveness.

 

[Vasian]

Henceforth, I have attempted to correct my own inadequacies as to the dictates of my conscience despite the challenge (which apparently is easier said than done) of continuously stumbling around in the dark. What matters isn’t how many times a person keeps falling down, but that he or she make an effort to get back up each time and continue to balance and steady myself that they may fall no more. When I have finally and truly freed myself from this unfortunate hedonist tendency, and have come into full understanding, perhaps then I will be able to re-embrace my lost Catholicism and fulfill His Majesty’s ideal of a Christian.

If you and the rest of us were to wait for that then there would be no one in Church including the religious and the clergy

All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.
We are capable of sinning every hour of the day and mentally in sleep.
That is why Christ died a propitiatory sacrifice for all of mankind.
Never will you be perfect enough without believing and accepting that Christ has sacrificed even for you, washing you clean of your sins everytime you ask for forgiveness.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

Now, if you’ve read through all of that post and didn’t get lost, I thank you.

You’re welcome, but it’s hard to find the questions to respond to in all that!

It has been approximately 11 years since my confirmation as Catholic and in hind-sight, I feel that my confirmation is an error and akin to an effrontery to El Shaddai, not through perhaps anyone’s fault in particular save my own … I went through with it either because I felt it was expected of me, was predetermined, etc., but perhaps not with purity of intent.

I’m not sure what you mean by “an error.” A Sacrament is a gift of grace from God, and thus cannot be an error. You don’t need complete “purity of intent” in order for a sacrament to be valid. (Very few young people do.) I suppose that if you had not even the slightest intent to receive the Sacrament, it might possibly be invalid. That could possibly be corrected later when you are ready, but my guess is that the Sacrament was valid unless you completely rejected it at the time. What you need to do now is to USE the Sacrament. Like any gift, it does you no good until you open it. Call upon those gifts of the Holy Spirit received at Confirmation. Many graces will be made available to you; just ask God.

… I’m curious as to how other fellow Generation X’ers have fared in terms of understanding the religion that they were raised with. Are the CCD classes of the 1990s and today of the same quality as those of the ones that were taught in the 1960s-1970s, or going back farther, the ones of the 1930s-1940s. I need to know if there are some fundamental disconnects with my generation’s perception of God, Duties, and General Morality due to a lack of proper religious instruction or an extremely watered down catechism being taught to children.

I’m not sure how old you are or when you were catechized. I am 53, so I was initially catechized (grades 1-12 and college) between 1963 and 1979, just about the WORST period of catechesis in recent history. Very little doctrine imparted, kids were encouraged to “find themselves,” to “explore” how they felt about issues (teachers rarely had the “audacity” to impose their beliefs on anyone), etc. The “Hippie generation” of catechesis! Unfortunately, we have not fully recovered from this as a Church, since my poorly-catechized generation has, by and large, been unable to hand on to our children (and by this point some grandchildren) a faith which we never fully received ourselves. It is beginning to turn around, but it may take a couple more generations.

… I felt/feel that many of the more ‘socially unacceptable’ teachings whether biblical or church catechism, (by the mores of today’s American youth / young adult culture) was were out of date (temporary laws suited for the time that they were written), or just didn’t make sense.

If they were part of the official teaching of the Church on faith and morals (as opposed to practice and discipline, which can change), they are never out-of-date. God is unchanging, and just because something doesn’t make sense to us (in our fragile nature wounded by original sin), doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense to God.

And let’s be perfectly honest, most of what the current generation is rebelling against deals with the morality of sex. Whether it’s masturbation, homosexuality, fornication, abortion or pornography, almost everyone is in agreement with at least one of these positions. And thus, the argument becomes a matter of the sanctity of life versus the quality of life. To the best of my knowledge, the Church argues in favor of the sanctity of life, whereas everyone else it seems, believes quality of life trumps sanctity.

If we are to be completely honest, these (sanctity of life and quality of life) do not conflict. They are in perfect harmony, because we, as persons made in the image and likeness of God, are most truly happy when we live our lives as He created us to live them. Those who reject God’s laws regarding the sanctity of life, the use of God’s gift of our sexuality, etc. are not TRULY happy. There is a difference between pleasure (which is fleeting) and happiness or joy which comes from living authentic lives the way our Creator created us to live them. (A car runs better when you follow the owner’s manual.)

How is it that the kids in CCD, myself included to perhaps a lesser extent (never fornicated, strongly disagree with altering the concept of marriage to be extended to anything outside of a male/female arrangement, consider abortion to be the worst form of murder one can inflict) still wind up with having some beliefs running contrary to Church Doctrine? Are things simply no longer properly explained or what?

Some things are not properly explained. Sometimes we reject what we hear because of our fallen nature and inclination to sin. Sometimes what kids are taught in Catechism class conflicts with what they see at home in their parents, who in many ways have rejected their faith (or never “got it” to begin with) and are barely going through the motions of being Catholic.

Other things that people seem to not truly understand are the Sacraments such as receiving the Eucharist. To them it’s nothing more than a circular wafer that may hold some symbolic meaning, but that’s it. Nothing more, nothing less.

This lack of faith in Christ’s presence in the Eucharist is one of the greatest tragedies of “Catholics” today.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

]The same thing holds true in terms of Confession (I’ve also heard a former Protestant argue this), “Why do I need to tell a priest my sins and not go direct to God. After all, if no one’s perfect and we’re all sinners, what’s so special that I need to go through an intercessor?” My own personal thoughts on this has more to do with being able to humble oneself before another, almost a test of sincere confession of wrongdoing. I could also be very wrong.

I don’t think you’re wrong at all. I personally think the Protestant notion that we don’t need to confess to a priest stems from inability to humble ourselves. What a tragedy, that human pride can separate people from the great fountain of God’s mercy!

The last argument which I’ve seen come up involves taking biblical passages out of context and trying to portray the ancient Israelites as the ‘Nazis of the Middle East’ from Exodus to 2 Samuel for the eradication of several Canaanite peoples without so much as really having a clue as to the history surrounding the events. (Also it should be noted that the Old Testament does a pretty good job of laying it on the House of Jacob and showing just how fallen they had become requiring the conquest of the Northern Kingdom, and then the Exile of the Southern Kingdom for purification of Israel (perhaps evidence that may lend credence to the concept of Purgatory)

Another case of blaming religion for situations that are really the result of human sinfulness. You show great insight.

Through the experiences of going through the Old Testament, I have cleared away much of the initial misrepresentations that my generation has embraced and learned so much more. True, many bad things did happen, many of those whom God called into service reneged on their allegiance to His Majesty, but I also see the Good that came from such adversity and the foundations of right and wrong.

Would you like to come help me teach my Old Testament class in CCD? That is what I try to convey to them all the time — God’s merciful love, that no matter how many times God’s people rejected Him throughout history, God was (and is) always able to bring good out of evil.

More importantly, the unfailing faith of Joseph in Genesis, the courage of the prophets against the corruption of the Israelite and Judahite monarchies, the knowledge recorded in the Wisdom Books (Sirach specifically) inspire more Hope then detract from it.

But the thing that gets me most is that no matter how terrible and vile the house of Israel became, even to the point of surpassing the five wretched cities of which Sodom and Gomorrah were part of, God never gave up on them and continued to restore them no matter how far they fell.

Anyone who says that the Old Testament only portrays a vengeful God has not read it as you have. The Old Testament is full of hope, and portrays God as both just and merciful.

Isaiah 53 really says all that needs to be said … To carry the burden of the World on his back while not succumbing to it, nor becoming bitter or resentful from it, is this something that only God is capable of?

Only God is capable of this. And only by His grace can we even begin to imitate His selfless act of love and mercy.

And, in the end, I suppose that’s what bothers me. If to be the ideal Christian in the truest sense of the word (and by default to have an attitude of being ‘open to all’ as the term catholic implies), I have consciously failed the King. In a current state of spiritual impurity, it is a blaspheme to call oneself what he or she is not.

Instead of waiting to be “the ideal Christian,” which none of us will be until God finishes purifying us, why not start by being “Christian”? Be a follower of Christ, even though an imperfect one. Know that you will fall sometimes, but that He will pick you up as often as you repent. That is why He carried the Cross for you, so you don’t have to do it alone. You need to cooperate with His grace, not wait until you have figured out how to do it perfectly by yourself (that will never happen).

It’s true, I could go simply return to a state of going through the motions of what is expected, but if the interior does not match the exterior action, whether by intention or ignorance, then I have committed a false worship and have mocked God.

Sometimes “going through the motions” can be the beginning of a process which leads to deeper interior conversion.

Henceforth, I have attempted to correct my own inadequacies as to the dictates of my conscience despite the challenge (which apparently is easier said than done) of continuously stumbling around in the dark. **What matters isn’t how many times a person keeps falling down, but that he or she make an effort to get back up each time **…

That’s true, but separated from the Church and its sacraments, you are trying to go it alone. Christ gave the Church and the sacraments to us to help us along the way. I don’t know whom I am quoting, but I have heard that “the Church is not a museum for saints, but a hospital for sinners.”

When I have finally and truly freed myself from this unfortunate hedonist tendency, and have come into full understanding, perhaps then I will be able to re-embrace my lost Catholicism and fulfill His Majesty’s ideal of a Christian.

As I said, you have this backwards. You need to re-embrace your lost Catholicism to help free you from your “hedonist tendency,” something all of us have to one degree or another.

You should know this from your study of the Old Testament. Whenever the Israelites tried to go it alone, they failed. Whenever they relied on God, and were faithful in worship, they succeeded.

The Sacrament of Reconciliation is an amazing gift. I urge you to make frequent use of it.

 

[PJM]

=Andrew1983;

I currently do not practice any religion in the traditional sense of the meaning (attending worship services, observing feasts and other traditions handed down throughout the centuries).

Now, before anyone misinterprets what I’m trying to type, I need to expand on several things, not excuse-making per se, but I’m curious as to how other fellow Generation X’ers have fared in terms of understanding the religion that they were raised with. Are the CCD classes of the 1990s and today of the same quality as those of the ones that were taught in the 1960s-1970s, or going back farther, the ones of the 1930s-1940s. I need to know if there are some fundamental disconnects with my generation’s perception of God, Duties, and General Morality due to a lack of proper religious instruction or an extremely watered down catechism being taught to children.

***Hi Andrew, GREAT POST:thumbsup: Thanks for asking.

I can’t respond to the 30’s and 40’s, but have 12 years of VERY Solid Catholic Eucation that ended [temporarly] in 1963 when I graduatd HS.

I have taught CCD for 12 yrs. [gds. 4-12] and RCIA for 3. ***

There is no doubt that the quality of religious education has slipped precipitously in the wake of Vatican II.

There are many evidences of this; the most telling being reported in the 2008 PEW Report, which compared practicing and non-practicing “catholics” from 1970 to 2007.

In 1970 about 75% of self-professed Catholics regularly attened Sunday and HD Masses. In 2007 that number was 25%, in 2008 23%. Similarly in 1970 nearly 65% of SPC’s went to Confession at least once a year. in 2007 that number was reported to be a SHOCKING 10%

There are numurious reasons for this; foremost among them being the “catholic” responce to Humane Vitae, which was not simply ignored by actively taught against by a GREAT many clerics and Bishops.

Having then establised a firm footing for “legal” [one assumes in the minds of those leading the downhill charge] catholic desent, these same leaders proceeded to “remake” the CC in America, “in there image.” The list of abuses of not accepted norms in our Liturgy, NEVER approved by Vatican II, and only reluctently approved, after they had already been implemented, by Rome, has placed us where we are today.

The unnecessary [and one can understand now as dangerous to the salvation of souls] use of Laity, to augment priestly functions, has lead to record setting unbelief, lack of understanding of Chruch Teachings, and most signifiantly; not understanding what the Sacraments Actually are, and encouraging by default, therefore a casual disreguard of them.

The same PEW Report indicated that the Socond largest "c"hristian denomination is now FALLEN AWAY CATHOLICS

Some of the NATURAL consequences of these actions were a decline in the level of catechesis, fewer actual Religious and Priestly teachers, closing of MANY Catholic Schools [and many others now run by laity].

Catechesis has always varied from region to region; Bishop to Bishop and largly unmonitorid, parish to parish. From very Good to simply horible.

Key also in this was the lack of emphasis for the requirement of parents responsibility in the education of there kids. When’s the last time one heard a sermon on this topic?

Then add in the secular theology of “relativism”:; taught in schools at all levels of education as FACT; “It is ONLY wrong IF you think that it is wrong”, and you have one of the final nails in the coffin.

The other nail lies in Mass Media, free will sex, if it feels good do it, and the like. This lead to free choice Abortions by the MILLIONS, effectively changing the culture and conscience of America. The Church has largely lost Her influence for Moral absolutes and Moral right and wrongs.

We have yet [in my opinion] begun to recover from all of this harm

I’m concerned by this because it seems that every fallen away catholic seems to have a severe lack of the true understanding of the Christian concept of God. It’s very apparent especially with atheists that through self admission can’t tell the difference between The LORD GOD, Zeus, Amon-Ra, etc. Somehow they equate the the true God as being another Deification of either Elemental Nature or Human Nature, (i.e. Venus, goddess of love), as opposed to being the measure of what we are to gauge as goodness in the universe. The absurd attempts of likening God to a flying spaghetti monster shows that the individual making the comparison is literally unable to define the existence of the universe other than by what their senses record (basically, there is nothing beyond our current physical plane).

How is it that the kids in CCD, myself included to perhaps a lesser extent (never fornicated, strongly disagree with altering the concept of marriage to be extended to anything outside of a male/female arrangement, consider abortion to be the worst form of murder one can inflict) still wind up with having some beliefs running contrary to Church Doctrine? Are things simply no longer properly explained or what?

Moral right and wrongs ar “written on our hearts” by God. Common sense, simple logic, can lead one to correct decissions, because God is and remains always present to us.

…(perhaps evidence that may lend credence to the concept of Purgatory).

WOW! you know about Purgatory:thumbsup: You must have really paid attention in CCD class!

I remain full of hope, knowing God is in charge and giving us brilliant and couragous Pontiffs!

God wins!

The questions are; what can WE DO to help and when?

Love an prayers,

Pat

 

[jmcrae]

It’s true, I could go simply return to a state of going through the motions of what is expected, but if the interior does not match the exterior action, whether by intention or ignorance, then I have committed a false worship and have mocked God.

It seems as if the greatest fear of this generation is the fear of being a hypocrite. Trust me, there are worse things than being a hypocrite.

A great man once wrote, “i would far prefer to live next door to a hypocrite who, though he outwardly lives a law-abiding life, fantasizes at night about robbing banks and killing people, than next door to a thieving murderer who feels the need to be ‘true to himself.’”

Over time, the hypocrite will stop fantasizing, and will come to enjoy living as a law-abiding citizen, but the thieving murderer, how ever “honest” he may be, can only ever come to a bad end.