Can I still call myself Catholic?

[HelenRose]

The Church does not expect us to accept blindly Her teachings. When I became a Catholic there were areas of belief that I did not “understand” and found difficult to accept fully.

I “pondered these is my heart” and over time the rationale for these difficult to accept beliefs became clearer.

I think the main sticking point for me was and in some ways still is: the resurrection of the human body. However, after about 15 years of going over this in my mind, it dawned on me why this belief is so important. If I have the faith the accept this teaching it is because I have the faith to believe that God is in control of both the physical and spiritual.

The teachings of the Church are not there in order to control and manipulate us. They are there for our good.

For instance: We tell a child not to touch a burning stove. We may even spank a child for getting to close to that stove. A small child can not understand our reasoning and may rebel against us and thereby be burned.

I know that is a simplistic example but it may help you to give the Holy Spirit time to work in your heart, soul and mind.

 

[HelenRose]

I am having some major problems with the Catholic faith. I thought my problem was with opposing gay marriage, women priests and priests not being allowed to get married. When I started looking into what I am supposed to believe , I realized I had much bigger issues. The Pope is infallable, Mary was a virgin the rest of her life, Purgatory? I have never believed any of that. I have always gone to Church to hear the word of God, not for any of the sacrements. If I keep going to the Catholic Church but dont go to communion, can I still say I am Catholic? I am certainly not in communion with the Church. I am sure some of you will say that I shouldnt be going to a Church I dont believe in, but where am I going to go?

I am interested in your question: " Where am I going to go?"

If you are sincere in your desire to search for truth and are not simply looking for a way out of your responsibilities of faith, this is how I would answer that question.

You are going on a journey. Allow the Holy Spirit to guide you.

 

[char1963]

My personal interpretation/ belief is the Catholic Church is on the right track, but gets sidetracked with dogmas. God wants us to follow to the 10 commandments, and believe we can get to God through Jesus. I believe the Church has that part right. Does anybody know who the 7 Churches in revelation are?

 

[HelenRose]

It is sometimes very difficult to tell if an individual is really seeking answers or have already made up his or her mind.

The train of thought that you are on is very similar to my dear and very close friend who belongs to the Saturday Adventist’s Church.

Dogma - A system of principles and tenets (The Random House Dictionary)

The Ten Commandments is a system of principles and tenets.

The Saturday Adventist Church follows very closely their own Dogma relying solely on its interpretation of what the Ten Commandments are and what they mean for Christians.

If this is the path you want to follow for awhile on your journey, well then … do so honestly and with your eyes wide open.

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by char1963
Isnt the most important thing that I believe Jesus died to save us from our sins? What does the rest matter? I am actually in line with the majority of the Church’s moral teachings , its the dogmas that I am having trouble with.

Hi ,

Actually your’s is at best an incomplete understanding.

Point 1. By Christ birth, life, Death and Ressurection; we are NOT SAVED; ONLY REDEEMED. This means that access to heaven in once again POSSIBLE [not guarenteed] just POSSIBLE if certain conditions are met.

Point 2 Humanities are not and were not “automatically” or “completely” forgiven by these actions. How can we know this? READ carefully: Mt. 26:26-28, Mt. 14: 22-24, Lk. 22: 19-21, John 6: 40-69, and Paul 1 Cor. 11:23-29.

**Mt. 26: 26-28 **"*[26] Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” *

**1 Jn. 1 8-10 **“If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

** 1 Jn. 5:16-17** "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.Mortal sin is so serious that it seperates us totally from relationship and grace until we repent and confess and are forgiven them]

** Jn. 20:19-23** "On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." ** And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” **

** This ties in explicitly with Mt. 16:19 ** " I [Jesus] will give you [singular / Peter and successors of My Church] the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

** Point 3. **So you know; deleberate unacceptance of known CC DEFINED doctrine and dogmas is a Mortal sin. I share this ONLY so you are able to understand that your position is quite possibly endangering your salvation.

Certainly thee most important thing is Knowing Christ. But knowing Christ and then choosing to not obey Him [which means also and specifically those He placed and has chosen to teach us and lead us to Him]; is idential as NOT knowing Christ.

To deny Christ teaching is the same as denying Christ.

Love and prayers,

Pat

 

[char1963]

I have the feeling that sometimes I am not expressing myself properly. I didnt mean to imply that “My sins are forgiven, I can go on my merry way”. That is not what I meant at all. As a sidenote , a budding Buddist just explained pugatory in a way I can understand. He told me that purgatory is the space between life and the afterlife. This is concept I can grasp, even though his concept is probably not exactly in line with Catholic beliefs. Something I think I have not made clear, is that I am now in more line with the Church’s moral teachings. There is one thing that has always puzzled me and made me think we are missing some parts of the bible. How come the God of the OT was a "jealous , venegful God " and the God of the NT is a “merciful , loving God” ?

 

[jmcrae]

I am having some major problems with the Catholic faith. I thought my problem was with opposing gay marriage, women priests and priests not being allowed to get married. When I started looking into what I am supposed to believe , I realized I had much bigger issues. The Pope is infallable, Mary was a virgin the rest of her life, Purgatory? I have never believed any of that. I have always gone to Church to hear the word of God, not for any of the sacrements. If I keep going to the Catholic Church but dont go to communion, can I still say I am Catholic? I am certainly not in communion with the Church. I am sure some of you will say that I shouldnt be going to a Church I dont believe in, but where am I going to go?

The first thing to ask yourself is, why you consider your own opinions (which are probably not even yours, to begin with; you have probably absorbed them unquestioningly from the surrounding society, especially from television, magazines, and conversations with doubters) to be the standard by which a 2,000 year old religion should be measured.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

I have the feeling that sometimes I am not expressing myself properly. I didnt mean to imply that “My sins are forgiven, I can go on my merry way”. That is not what I meant at all. As a sidenote , a budding Buddist just explained pugatory in a way I can understand. He told me that purgatory is the space between life and the afterlife. This is concept I can grasp, even though his concept is probably not exactly in line with Catholic beliefs. Something I think I have not made clear, is that I am now in more line with the Church’s moral teachings. There is one thing that has always puzzled me and made me think we are missing some parts of the bible. How come the God of the OT was a "jealous , venegful God " and the God of the NT is a “merciful , loving God” ?

Now we’re getting somewhere, some real questions!

I like to think of Purgatory as one of the most wonderful signs of God’s mercy. Since we know from the Bible that nothing imperfect can enter heaven (Revelation 21:27), and since we also know that most of us are not perfect, if God’s justice were not tempered with mercy we would all be headed for hell (which is eternal separation from God). But God in His infinite love and mercy has given us Purgatory, a period of purification after death, to remove the last traces of sin and attachments to sin from our souls so we will be “squeaky clean” and ready to meet God face-to-face. After all, we are on our way to a wedding feast — the marriage supper of the Lamb! If you were going to your wedding all dressed up in a bridal gown — yes, Christ is marrying His Church — and fell in a mud puddle, wouldn’t you want to stop and get cleaned up on the way? I am so thankful that there is a Purgatory! (Yes, some suffering may be involved. Most healing processes from bodily sickness or injury involve some discomfort, but it is definitely worthwhile. The same is true for spiritual healing.)

Regarding the OT God vs. the NT God: God is always the same, never-changing. He is both perfectly just and perfectly merciful. If we choose to reject Him, He gives us the freedom to separate ourselves from Him forever. If we choose to repent, He is always willing to welcome us back. The OT God/NT God dichotomy is an over-simplification. Throughout history, Old Testament times and New Testament times, God has always invited people into a loving relationship with Himself; people have always fallen into sin; God has given necessary just punishments, as an opportunity for them to recognize their sinfulness and turn back to Him; God has always welcomed them back when they repent; and the cycle has repeated itself over and over. You will find examples of God’s love and mercy in the Old Testament (just as in the New), and you will find examples of His anger and justice in the New Testament (just as in the Old).

 

[jmcrae]

I asked for guidance as I opened the bible today. It opened straight to Luke, to the part about Elizabeth and Mary ( interestingly enough, it skipped right over the part where it says she was a virgin, not that I am arguing that point.) I kept on reading and Jesus replies to the woman who cried out “blessed is the woman who gave birth to you and who nursed you” , Jesus replied…" rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and listen to it. " ( I may not have that exactly worded right, but am sure you all know the verse I am reffering to ).

He is telling us that Mary is not just T&A - she is blessed because she believed God; not merely because she gave birth and suckled - although obviously she did that, too. But it was her faith that enabled her to do these things. She was not merely an automaton.

He said to say to many people “Your faith has has healed you”. They had faith in him , not his mother. Why should we need scholars to understand what Jesus said?

Because we, too, are not just bodies fulfilling a biological function for Christ. We, too, need to say “Yes” to Jesus with not just our bodies, but also our minds and hearts. But we can’t say “Yes” to what we don’t understand - that’s why we need to be taught.

As a related thought, who are the 7 Churches in revelations?

These were seven Catholic churches that were under the authority of St. John the Apostle (which is why St. John was commanded to write to them).

One thing I do like about the Catholic Church is its more of a Church of example , then going out and converting people.

Me, too!

 

[jmcrae]

I have the feeling that sometimes I am not expressing myself properly. I didnt mean to imply that “My sins are forgiven, I can go on my merry way”. That is not what I meant at all. As a sidenote , a budding Buddist just explained pugatory in a way I can understand. He told me that purgatory is the space between life and the afterlife.

That’s actually a very Catholic view of it. Purgatory is sometimes described as “the mud room of Heaven” where we take off all of our dirty clothes and get changed into clean clothes before coming into the main part of the house.

There is one thing that has always puzzled me and made me think we are missing some parts of the bible. How come the God of the OT was a "jealous , venegful God " and the God of the NT is a “merciful , loving God” ?

Actually, it’s not until we get to the New Testament that we begin to encounter the concept of “Hellfire and damnation” which is first given in the Sermon on the Mount. The Old Testament doesn’t actually mention Hell very much at all.

 

[char1963]

The 7 Churches under Saint Paul were Catholic… Why do they all seem to be practicing different things?

 

[jmcrae]

The 7 Churches under Saint Paul were Catholic… Why do they all seem to be practicing different things?

We aren’t actually told what they were practicing - we infer that from the fact that St. John is the one who was commanded to discipline them. (St. John was a good Catholic; he ordained a great many second-century Bishops whose writings confirm that they were practicing the same Catholic faith that we still practice today.)

We are only told of their various different sins against the proper practice of the faith. But it’s clear that Christ was calling all of them to the same practice of the same faith, and that He expected St. John to instruct and correct them.

 

[Maui71]

Here you go. Instead of asking questions why not listen to answers:

You can get the CD’s from CA.

Catholic Answers To Common Objections
By: Tim Staples

shop.catholic.com/product.php?productid=444

In Catholic Answers To Common Objections you and your non-Catholic friends will be staggered by the mountain of scriptural evidence Tim Staples has compiled to prove the truth of even the most controversial Catholic teachings:
Why do Catholics call priests “father” when Matthew 23:9 says, “call no man on this earth father, for you have one father in heaven”?
How can Catholics claim that a priest can forgive sins when Isaiah 43:25 says God forgives our sins?
Why Do Catholics pray to saints when the Bible says we are to pray to God?
Why do Catholics fast in public and place ashes on their foreheads during Lent when such practices were condemned by Christ in Matthew 6:16-18?
Perhaps you’ve been stumped by one or more of these questions over the years. Tim has marshaled a mountain of scriptural evidence that will make it easy for you to answer these questions, and many others – clearly, thoroughly and convincingly.

Peace

 

[Salonika]

Char1963 – Thanks for starting this thread. I have found it challenging taking me back to when I was in a similar situation. It has brought up a range of emotions. In the end I left as I felt the difference between my beliefs and those of the Protestant Church I belonged too were too far apart.

I hope you come to a peaceful resolution and one your head and heart can both agree upon.

I’ve spilt my response into two parts due to its length. I sometimes think that if words were taken away from me I would stop existing.

char1963:

I am having some major problems with the Catholic faith. I thought my problem was with opposing gay marriage, women priests and priests not being allowed to get married. When I started looking into what I am supposed to believe , I realized I had much bigger issues.

Char1963 this is exactly what happened to me not within the Catholic Church but within the Protestant Church and it is certainly a scary thing it happens. For me the revelation came during a Trinity Sunday sermon when I realised that I had never understood the concept and did not agree with it.

It took me some time to realise that it was not helpful to me to have to listen to views week after week that I still disagreed after much examination and thought. It was with great sorrow I left the Church.

char1963:

If I keep going to the Catholic Church but don’t go to communion, can I still say I am Catholic? I am certainly not in communion with the Church. I am sure some of you will say that I shouldn’t be going to a Church I don’t believe in, but where am I going to go?

Again, I understand these questions. People who think that people leave without heart and soul searching are doing most people in this position a disservice. There are limited opportunities outside the church to discuss these questions and while church members may try to be understanding sometimes they just cannot understand why we cannot just accept doctrine.
Tantum ergo:

Why not go to RCIA at your church (it isn’t just for people who are planning to become Catholic, you know). Before you brush off various teachings with “I don’t believe”, make sure you actually know why the teaching exists and the entirety of the teaching. It might be that once you learn more you’ll find yourself understanding and accepting what right now you have difficulty with.

Lainey1963:

I agree it sounds like its time to learn about your faith. You will find the reasons for all these issues but you have to take the time to research & learn.

I wonder why people think that ignorance is the reason for people’s doubts. Sounds more like char1963 became more aware of areas of disagreement after researching and learning.

 

[Salonika]

Lainey1963:

I agree it sounds like its time to learn about your faith. You will find the reasons for all these issues but you have to take the time to research & learn.

I wonder why people think that ignorance is the reason for people’s doubts. Sounds more like char1963 became more aware of areas of disagreement after researching and learning.

ProVobis:

You do need to go to Mass every Sunday though. I don’t see why you couldn’t call yourself a Catholic if you do that. One still obtains many graces from Mass alone and you might want to attend outside Sundays as well. Or just visit Church and pray. Or just pray alone or with others.

This may be appropriate advice for char1963 or it may not be. Sometimes being a church raises rather than lowering the doubts and sometimes we wish that we had never had these doubts but once we have them we feel that we have to work through them.

tbcrawford:

My suggestion is speak to a priest.If you feel comfortable with your own parish priest thats great and he should be prepared to have a nice chat with you.

Agree you need to talk with people you feel comfortable with not in the s sense of agreement or disagreement with doctrine but with how they will handle these questions. I finally stopped talking to one minister after he said to me “isn’t 350 years of tradition good enough for you”.

PhilotheaZ:

And then, about ten years ago, with the help of a good holy priest who was teaching some adult religion classes at our parish, I discovered I had been doing things backwards. I learned that often FAITH MUST PRECEDE UNDERSTANDING.

I’ve always suspected that for some people faith must precede understanding and that it works for other people the other way round. Don’t think one’s better than the other but one may be more appropriate for some people.
Alfred Hill:

I humbly suggest you forget for the moment the issues that trouble you. Turn to Our Lord Jesus Christ and sincerely tell Him you need Him; thank Him for dying on the Cross for your sins; open the door of your life for Him and accept Him as Saviour and Lord.

For some people there are problems with doing this, problems which will differ from person to person. Sometimes we are a bit like a dog with a bone we can’t help ourselves gnawing on our questions/problems. Some times we may be very difficult to be around.
Alfred Hill:

There is no place for ‘cafeteria’ catholics … Still I suggest you keep going to church, pray to God and look for the truth.

For some people it isn’t easy to sort your views out in a place where the views expressed are those you are challenging.

Incomplete:

Oh, and one more thing. You said you attend Mass for the Word of God, not the sacraments. But the sacraments and Church teachings are all in the Word of God. You can’t really divide them.

I think for some of us the word is important because that is how we process information and feelings.
Char13:

I have the feeling that sometimes I am not expressing myself properly

Something I wonder about in these discussions is that the person who has the doubts expects/is expected to be able to explain all their doubts so the other person can understand them and get the appropriate reply. But that is a difficulty with doubts – how do you explain them to someone who finds it difficult to accept such doubts and sometimes to people who are waiting for a cue to explain/affirm the traditional view?

 

[tbcrawford]

Salonika I am so sorry you had such a poor experience with that particular minister.
We are all human beings and prone to make mistakes.Perhaps the minister you spoke to was having a bad day & was tired.Either way I am sorry.I hope you get the opportunity to speak with another priest and find the one for you that you can relate to and get good answers to your questions.
Char I advise you the same again.Find a good priest someone you can relate to and ask your questions.My parish priest would relish the opportunity to speak to someone like yourself!
May God bless you both and how wonderful you are both seeking God at all.

 

[Fran65]

I have some specific difficulties with some teachings too. I believe in the Creed, I know the Catholic faith is the one, true faith.

However, I have difficulty with the teaching that contraception is wrong. I look around the world and see immense suffering as a result of a lack of access to or use of contraception. The women dying in pregnancy and during childbirth as a result of multiple pregancies and lack of care, the children dying for lack of food and care. The misery of couples struggling with NFP. It’s not an issue for me (for personal reasons), so it’s not that I think that I should be allowed to use it. It is that I struggle with my own conscience when it comes to saying to others - if you are Catholic then you should not use it. It doesn’t help that the Priest I received instruction from when I converted (there was no formal RCI progarmme then) told me that although the ‘higher ups’ say we shouldn’t pragmatically he didn’t see a problem with it. I just don’t see the problem with a married couple using contraception - the argument that an unplanned baby would then be unwanted applies equally to NFP! What is the difference between having monthly blood tests -which someone on another thread resorted to and using other methods of contraception? Barrier methods have a failure rate and one could argue that providng one is not preventing ovulation then God’s will can still be fulfilled - I don’t believe in the pill btw (because of the impact on health and wellbeing). If a marriage would breakdown because of the strain of NFP and the fear of preganancy then how can we deny that family a solution?

I also struggle with idea that there are people excluded from communion - whenver I hear the words ‘Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I am healed’ and then consider that people are told that they are not healed and cannot be healed and therefore cannot receive communion I feel in my bones that it is wrong! None of us are without sin, so why is it the case that some are considered ‘good enough’ and others aren’t. How can anyone on earth know enough about someone else’s soul to be able to say to them that they cannot receive Christ’s gift??

I’m also uncomfortable with the idea of people being condemned because they are not Catholic. I have met many wonderful Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Buddhists etc - how can I look them in the face and say ‘You are wrong’? How do I know that I am not wrong?

Do these thoughts mean that I am out of communion with the Church?? How can they be resolved? I am asking sincere questions and hoping for answers - this is serious stuff.

 

[Della]

I have some specific difficulties with some teachings too. I believe in the Creed, I know the Catholic faith is the one, true faith.

However, I have difficulty with the teaching that contraception is wrong. I look around the world and see immense suffering as a result of a lack of access to or use of contraception. The women dying in pregnancy and during childbirth as a result of multiple pregancies and lack of care, the children dying for lack of food and care. The misery of couples struggling with NFP. It’s not an issue for me (for personal reasons), so it’s not that I think that I should be allowed to use it. It is that I struggle with my own conscience when it comes to saying to others - if you are Catholic then you should not use it. It doesn’t help that the Priest I received instruction from when I converted (there was no formal RCI progarmme then) told me that although the ‘higher ups’ say we shouldn’t pragmatically he didn’t see a problem with it. I just don’t see the problem with a married couple using contraception - the argument that an unplanned baby would then be unwanted applies equally to NFP! What is the difference between having monthly blood tests -which someone on another thread resorted to and using other methods of contraception? Barrier methods have a failure rate and one could argue that providng one is not preventing ovulation then God’s will can still be fulfilled - I don’t believe in the pill btw (because of the impact on health and wellbeing). If a marriage would breakdown because of the strain of NFP and the fear of preganancy then how can we deny that family a solution?

Instead of getting into a complex issue in one post, I’ll just suggest you read Theology of the Body as a starter.

I also struggle with idea that there are people excluded from communion - whenver I hear the words ‘Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I am healed’ and then consider that people are told that they are not healed and cannot be healed and therefore cannot receive communion I feel in my bones that it is wrong! None of us are without sin, so why is it the case that some are considered ‘good enough’ and others aren’t. How can anyone on earth know enough about someone else’s soul to be able to say to them that they cannot receive Christ’s gift??

You misunderstand why non-Catholics are not admitted to the Eucharist. It’s because they are not in communion with the Church not because Catholics are better. If one does not believe in the Church’s teachings regarding the Eucharist, why should they receive it? Wouldn’t it be hypocrisy to do so? Conversely, Catholics do not receive communion in Protestant communities, because we do not believe what they do about their communion. One ought to be true to one’s own beliefs, yes?

I’m also uncomfortable with the idea of people being condemned because they are not Catholic. I have met many wonderful Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Buddhists etc - how can I look them in the face and say ‘You are wrong’? How do I know that I am not wrong?

You are confusing theology with morality. One can be theologically wrong and morally right. God judges us based on what we know, and how we applied the grace he gave us. For those who know the Church is the Body of Christ and reject it, God will judge them very differently from those who did not know this or who through invincible ignorance could not know/accept it. And God alone is the judge as to who knows what/how, not us. The Church has never taught that non-Catholics are automatically doomed.

Do these thoughts mean that I am out of communion with the Church?? How can they be resolved? I am asking sincere questions and hoping for answers - this is serious stuff.

You are a baptized Catholic who is struggling with some issues. Of course you are not out of communion with the Church just for that. And the answers are there. You need to read the Catechism. Versions are available online and in bookstores. And there is this website with many resources. It’s a matter of learning to trust the fact that Jesus established his Church to teach what he wanted the world to know. That is quite biblical. The Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth”, according to St. Paul. So, pray for trust in the Church and read reliable material that will help you understand why the Church teaches what it does.

 

[jmcrae]

I have some specific difficulties with some teachings too. I believe in the Creed, I know the Catholic faith is the one, true faith.

However, I have difficulty with the teaching that contraception is wrong. I look around the world and see immense suffering as a result of a lack of access to or use of contraception. The women dying in pregnancy and during childbirth as a result of multiple pregancies and lack of care, the children dying for lack of food and care. The misery of couples struggling with NFP. It’s not an issue for me (for personal reasons), so it’s not that I think that I should be allowed to use it. It is that I struggle with my own conscience when it comes to saying to others - if you are Catholic then you should not use it. It doesn’t help that the Priest I received instruction from when I converted (there was no formal RCI progarmme then) told me that although the ‘higher ups’ say we shouldn’t pragmatically he didn’t see a problem with it. I just don’t see the problem with a married couple using contraception - the argument that an unplanned baby would then be unwanted applies equally to NFP! What is the difference between having monthly blood tests -which someone on another thread resorted to and using other methods of contraception? Barrier methods have a failure rate and one could argue that providng one is not preventing ovulation then God’s will can still be fulfilled - I don’t believe in the pill btw (because of the impact on health and wellbeing). If a marriage would breakdown because of the strain of NFP and the fear of preganancy then how can we deny that family a solution?

I used to have issues with this as well - until it dawned on me that God cannot ever create any human being by accident. Even if the parents don’t want the child, God does - and God has a specific plan for that child, that fits in with His overall plan for the whole world. Each of us is an important part of God’s plan. We can’t see the whole thing - we are like the dots of paint in a painting. We can only see what is around us, which may seem like a complete muddle, but God can see the whole thing, and He is pleased with our contributions, no matter how small and insignificant we might think they are.

My original problem was that I thought children could come into existence by accident, without God knowing about it. Once I realized that this isn’t possible, I realized that every time we prevent a child from being born (regardless of the means) we are actively working against God, who is creating that child, and wants that child to exist, for the sake of His plan for the world.

 

[PJM]

=char1963I = There is one thing that has always puzzled me and made me think we are missing some parts of the bible. How come the God of the OT was a "jealous , venegful God " and the God of the NT is a “merciful , loving God” ?

***Your doing just fine in explaing yourself.

Actually these are simply different attributes of the same God.*

The difference is not so much the meassage and messanger, as it is the audience being addressed and instructed.

The OT peoples understood force, might, and were exceedingly vengeful. “An eye for an eye” was insufficient. “Take the eye and a couple of theeth” Even today the Jewish and Middle east people tend toward this mentality; this mind set.

So the message from God needed to be in a language that they would understand and react to.

With the Incarnation, “love your neighbor as yourself”, and “turn the other cheek” we come to a NEW Covenant, and New relationship with God through our relations with each other. Charity replaces our idea of justice. Love is to prevail.

This was always the end goal of God, and became possible by Christ example and Teachings, with the necessary grace to accomplish it.

God continues to be a Jealous God; demanding our fidelity and love; and yet permitting us to say NO ! to His desire, His Will.

In the end; God is, and in an absolute sense, must be Just and Fair in His judgements. Just as He punished sin in the OT, so too will He punish sin today. **

Love and prayers,
Pat