Can I vent? (Please help)

[adstrinity]

My boss knows I’m Catholic. She’s a Baptist. If you check my other threads, I want to get out of this job, but, today, she started witnessing to me (because I was in black with black eyeshadow and told her it was because it was Good Friday mourning? Because she asked if we were allowed to eat today and I explained the rules? Because I asked her for the afternoon off so I could go to Mass?).

Everything was as fine as could be expected (I didn’t want to get into it with her), until she wanted to show me that she knows 100% she is going to go to Heaven and she will bring in scriptures to show me to prove it. I told her that that is presumption, I will hope I go to Heaven, I pray I go to Heaven, but, the only people who know are The Trinity.

She also believes that if you confess Jesus is Lord with your mouth, you will be saved (unless you didn’t really mean it).

I also told her I was born again, but, became Catholic later. She gave me a skeptical look like I was trying to pull one over on her.

I don’t want to get into it with her, and, I don’t know what I should do. Should I let it go and have her think she’s right? Should I explain in the Bible the whole “working out my salvation with fear and trembling,” et al?

I don’t want to, but, if I need to, what will she show me and what should I have as a reply? I have books on this, but, I don’t want to look through them or other threads at the moment.

UGH!! I can’t believe this happened on Good Friday. It took a lot for me to get focused for Mass (fortunately I have a 2 hour drive).

 

[NotWorthy]

My boss knows I’m Catholic. She’s a Baptist. If you check my other threads, I want to get out of this job, but, today, she started witnessing to me (because I was in black with black eyeshadow and told her it was because it was Good Friday mourning? Because she asked if we were allowed to eat today and I explained the rules? Because I asked her for the afternoon off so I could go to Mass?).

Everything was as fine as could be expected (I didn’t want to get into it with her), until she wanted to show me that she knows 100% she is going to go to Heaven and she will bring in scriptures to show me to prove it. I told her that that is presumption, I will hope I go to Heaven, I pray I go to Heaven, but, the only people who know are The Trinity.

She also believes that if you confess Jesus is Lord with your mouth, you will be saved (unless you didn’t really mean it).

I also told her I was born again, but, became Catholic later. She gave me a skeptical look like I was trying to pull one over on her.

I don’t want to get into it with her, and, I don’t know what I should do. Should I let it go and have her think she’s right? Should I explain in the Bible the whole “working out my salvation with fear and trembling,” et al?

I don’t want to, but, if I need to, what will she show me and what should I have as a reply? I have books on this, but, I don’t want to look through them or other threads at the moment.

UGH!! I can’t believe this happened on Good Friday. It took a lot for me to get focused for Mass (fortunately I have a 2 hour drive).

… Blessed are those who are persecuted because of me.

You know that your Boss is probably going to re-address this. It might help to be prepared with a couple of teachings that back you up.

 

[Deacon_Joseph]

Our sanctification is usually not complete when we die, though we know we will be perfectly sanctified in heaven. Thus between death and glory must come a purification. Certain passages of Scripture, such as Romans 14:10 and 1 Corinthians 3:11-15, speak of a judgment after death which will not be entirely pleasant even for the saved.

Purgatory is the final purification of those who have died in Christ, but are still imperfect. Their purification includes paying for the sins they haven’t already paid for in this life. If your Boss lives a perfect saintly life from beginning to end, then she will go straight to heaven. A lot of us make mistakes along the way. Remember not to get too angry with your boss.

Other verses in the Bible that can help explain Purgatory:

Romans 15:30; Ephesians 6:18-19; Tobit 12:12; Revelation 5:8; 2 Maccabees 12:44-46;
Matthew 5:26; 1 Cor. 3: 15; 1 Peter1:7;
Sirach 7:33 ; Matthew 3:11; Isaiah 66:15; Revelation 1:14 and 21:27; Hebrew 12;
Matthew 5:25-26; Mt 12:32; Colossians 1:24; Malachi 3:3; 1 Corinthians Chapter 3 and 13;
Peter 4:1 and 1 Peter 3.

Sheol is Jewish tradtion of a purgatory and can be found in 2 Samuel 22; Psalm 18:5

Read the verses over first, some may not work in explaining this issue. I’m sure she will disagree with praying for the dead from 2 Maccabees, so below I put some info on explaining why most Protestants have 7 fewer books in the Bible than Catholics.

Early Christians read the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the Septuagint. The authors of the New Testament quoted freely from the Septuagint—over 300 times.

Catholic Bibles contain all the books that have been traditionally accepted by Christians since Jesus’ time. Protestant Bibles contain all those books, except those rejected by the Protestant Reformers in the 1500’s. The chief reason Protestants rejected these biblical books was because they did not support Protestant doctrines, for example, 2 Maccabees supports prayer for the dead.

The Catholic Old Testament follows the Alexandrian canon of the Septuagint, the Old Testament which was translated into Greek around 250 B.C. The Protestant Reformers follows the Palestinian canon of Scripture (39 books), which was not officially recognized by Jews until around 100 A.D.

Why don’t the Jews accept the Alexandrian canon now, though? They follow after their predecessors, who around 100 A.D. decided that the Septuagint which followed the Alexandrian canon had at least two problems: First, it was written in Greek, which after the destruction of Jerusalem by Gentiles seemed “un-Jewish” or even “anti-Jewish.” Second, Christians, following the lead of their apostolic leaders, widely used the Septuagint, especially in apologetics to the Jews; thus, non-Christian Jews wanted to deny the value of some of its books, such as the Book of Wisdom, which contains a profound prophecy of Christ’s death.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you need more help.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I don’t want to get into it with her, and, I don’t know what I should do. Should I let it go and have her think she’s right? Should I explain in the Bible the whole “working out my salvation with fear and trembling,” et al?

You know the situation better than us, but my advice would be to avoid religious conversation with this person and witness by your life rather than by your words. If it comes up again, immediately call to mind Christ’s words to “love your neighbor”. If you treat her lovingly (and I mean sincerely lovingly, not phoney-style), you could simply end a conversation with a genuine smile and a simple: “I am happy to hear your love for Jesus. I would like very much to see you in heaven!” Or something short and kind like that…And leave it at that!

 

[Sheeniac]

You might even be very honest with her and say that while you both love Christ, you both have very different opinions. Since you respect both her and your respective positions with your employer, that it would probably be best to agree to disagree and to not discuss the topic so near and dear to both your and her heart.

I would think that if you try to ignore her comments, she will think that you have no defense against her ‘superior’ arguments. Taking the bull by the horns allows for both of you to move past this.

 

[adstrinity]

You might even be very honest with her and say that while you both love Christ, you both have very different opinions. Since you respect both her and your respective positions with your employer, that it would probably be best to agree to disagree and to not discuss the topic so near and dear to both your and her heart.

I would think that if you try to ignore her comments, she will think that you have no defense against her ‘superior’ arguments. Taking the bull by the horns allows for both of you to move past this.

Yes, but, if that is the case, what is it to me? Will I be hurt because of my pride or because I didn’t tell her the truth? At what point do I let go?

She and I have held hands and prayed (always with another employee). I prayed as much as I believed, without stepping on her beliefs (she asked me to lead the prayer once). This was at work.

She told me some Catholics have now become born again and told a customer of hers weeks ago that, “Even some Catholics have accepted Jesus!” I had to chuckle a little.

In all honesty, Catholics that have become apostate probably didn’t know their God to begin with; may our prayers today bring them back Home safely.

Should I pray for her presumption and pride? I still would like to know what Bible verses she thinks supports advanced knowledge of eternal salvation…I have a teen Bible back at my parent’s house. I remember a page dedicated to this…

Deacon Joseph, thank you thank you for your reply, HOWEVER, I’m not bringing up Purgatory (at least I hope not to), but, only mention what needs to be. I don’t want to confuse my boss nor throw things at her that makes us sound like we are incompatible with the Christianity she knows. There’s A LOT I bit my tongue on today, but, could agree with her nonetheless (all have fallen short of the glory of God, no man should boast of his works for it is by Grace, if we confess to God we have sinned, we are forgiven – I believe all this, but, not the same as she does…)

She also didn’t like much when she asked me, “If I was to ask you, what do you need to do to get to Heaven?” and I told her, “Love God and love your neighbour.” “Y…e…a…h…that’s important, but, what is most important.?” “Do the will of God and obey His Commandments.” She said this was important, really important, but, I’m focusing on the works. This is when she said it’s confessing Jesus, and I pointed out to her that to truly love Jesus, one obeys Him. She hesitantly agreed with this in part.

UGH!!

Please, if you are not already doing so, please pray that I get the job for which I am interviewing on Monday. Please pray that I get there safely and on time, I make a good impression, and I have the skills and personality that the police department needs. I NEED to get out of this job. Please pray. (See my thread in the Prayers Folder for full rundown.)

 

[TheAtheist]

Ok, i’m hardly the person to ask about official theology or doctrine (as the name handle shows) - but…

Would arguing with your boss actually resolve your situation? I mean she sounds like the type of person who’ll just deflect whatever explanation you might give.

This could potentially turn into a shouting match with bible verses and strains of theology aplenty.

But “winning” the argument might actually make you lose the war so to speak. It would be preferable for you to avoid discussion of religious topics with that person (as there seems to be a lack of maturity on her part ).

Or at least, try to offer a clear and concise rendering of your viewpoint and end with a conciliatory statement regarding the difference of belief.

I know that probably isn’t the type of thing that more “Loud and Proud” Catholics would condone - but it is the more socially polite to thing to do.

That and well, until otherwise, she is your boss.

 

[byzgirl]

I’d tell her that the workplace isn’t the right atmosphere for such discussion…OR, if confident enough, I’d invite her to my home and have out the Bible and a bunch of Catholic apologetic materials…(but I’d be generously prepared to defend the Church). In that scenario (if a bit uneasy) it may be beneficial to ask someone to help as backup (an orthodox Catholic who knows the Holy Sciptures and their Catholic faith). Do you have any Catholic apologists nearby? I wish I did (it’d come in handy sometimes, to have someone really well-versed and battle-ready around for such encounters)!

Or, if too unsure to attempt debate at all, I’d simply state my objection to workplace proselytizing, as nicely and neatly as possible, and then buy her a really good Catholic apologetic book/DVD, as a gift.

At all times, though, make sure that you present yourself like a Christian should–and she may respect you (even if she never attains respect or insight for the Church). She’ll be able to ‘see your love’. Don’t shy away from being ‘known’ as a Christian (at the workplace or anywhere else)…just because a ‘Baptist’ wants to make the claim and keep it to herself (and deny you the title). And pray for her, in the meantime.

Just my two cent suggestions!

 

[SteveGC]

Ok, i’m hardly the person to ask about official theology or doctrine (as the name handle shows) - but…

Would arguing with your boss actually resolve your situation? I mean she sounds like the type of person who’ll just deflect whatever explanation you might give.

This could potentially turn into a shouting match with bible verses and strains of theology aplenty.

But “winning” the argument might actually make you lose the war so to speak. It would be preferable for you to avoid discussion of religious topics with that person (as there seems to be a lack of maturity on her part ).

Or at least, try to offer a clear and concise rendering of your viewpoint and end with a conciliatory statement regarding the difference of belief.

I know that probably isn’t the type of thing that more “Loud and Proud” Catholics would condone - but it is the more socially polite to thing to do.

That and well, until otherwise, she is your boss.

I don’t normally agree with atheists, but this was good advice

…as was Marco’s, as follows:

You know the situation better than us, but my advice would be to avoid religious conversation with this person and witness by your life rather than by your words. If it comes up again, immediately call to mind Christ’s words to “love your neighbor”. If you treat her lovingly (and I mean sincerely lovingly, not phoney-style), you could simply end a conversation with a genuine smile and a simple: “I am happy to hear your love for Jesus. I would like very much to see you in heaven!” Or something short and kind like that…And leave it at that!

Baptists are a tough breed when it comes to defending Catholicism. That’s because on the whole, they’re overly emotional about their perceived ideas regarding the “evils of Rome”. Unless you are a seasoned apologist, with a tremendous amount of patience and tolerance for folks who are hard-wired for anti-Catholicism, I don’t think you’ll get very far with her. It’s not that they make good arguments, it’s that they’re incredibly obstinate and close-minded about anything that you can’t reveal word-for-word from Scripture. If you can’t find the exact words Vatican, or Pope, or indulgence, or purgatory…then by goodness they DON’T exist. Period. The end. That’s their mentality. Honest to goodness.

So, as folks here have suggested…don’t shy away from her. But avoid a debate until you’re really prepared to rigorously and charitably defend the teachings of our Church.

But for whatever you end up doing, may God bless you richly.

 

[Steven_John]

Peace and blessings,
your situation sux, at work with a superior.

Deacon Joseph offers you some great points for discussion but i dont think you should go there unless you are very personally strong on them from your own prayer.

If you are a person at peace, listen to here witness genuinely and try to understand where she is coming from, no one can change Gods truth in you, if she does not ask you to witness to her you dont have to unless the spirit in you tells you you must.

If you must pray well before, dont rehearse plan or practice what you are to say.

Just say to your self or pray allowed if you are comfortable “come holy spirit let this be your voice not mine”

If you really walk in the way of Jesus (pbwh) in your life the spirit will guide your speech and you will feel peace.

If you do not feel peace dont witness, for you do not know who you witness for. No shame in that we are all at different places in our journy your listening to her will help grow your faith.

Love ya God bless you in this trial.

 

[byzgirl]

Good advice given by all…it definitely may not be the best avenue (to answer to her confrontational intentions). I’m one of those ‘loud and proud’ Catholics, but it’s sometimes not advantageous (for either party)…and considerng that she’s your boss, is probably better left alone. In the event that she gets real pushy, again…I’d just explain my objection to proselytizing and resist further discussion. But I would have some materials to give to her (in the even that she tries to offer you anti-Catholic materials). The swapping may dissuade her from further interactions.

 

[ridiculeddisply]

UGH!! I can’t believe this happened on Good Friday. It took a lot for me to get focused for Mass (fortunately I have a 2 hour drive).

May I point out, if it hasn’t been already, that it’s more than appropriate that this happened to you on Good Friday. Good Friday, after all, is the day where we, as Catholics, focus and meditate most during the year on the suffering and passion of our Lord. Look at it, if you can, as God asking you to participate in some of Christ’s suffering, in a very small way, through the trials you are experiencing with your boss.

God bless and good luck.

 

[Bill_Pick]

My boss knows I’m Catholic. She’s a Baptist. If you check my other threads, I want to get out of this job, but, today, she started witnessing to me (because I was in black with black eyeshadow and told her it was because it was Good Friday mourning? Because she asked if we were allowed to eat today and I explained the rules? Because I asked her for the afternoon off so I could go to Mass?).

Everything was as fine as could be expected (I didn’t want to get into it with her), until she wanted to show me that she knows 100% she is going to go to Heaven and she will bring in scriptures to show me to prove it. I told her that that is presumption, I will hope I go to Heaven, I pray I go to Heaven, but, the only people who know are The Trinity.

She also believes that if you confess Jesus is Lord with your mouth, you will be saved (unless you didn’t really mean it).

I also told her I was born again, but, became Catholic later. She gave me a skeptical look like I was trying to pull one over on her.

I don’t want to get into it with her, and, I don’t know what I should do. Should I let it go and have her think she’s right? Should I explain in the Bible the whole “working out my salvation with fear and trembling,” et al?

I don’t want to, but, if I need to, what will she show me and what should I have as a reply? I have books on this, but, I don’t want to look through them or other threads at the moment.

UGH!! I can’t believe this happened on Good Friday. It took a lot for me to get focused for Mass (fortunately I have a 2 hour drive).

Rembmer two thing she is your boss and she is Baptist and Baptist believe in the false teaching off OSAS nothing you say will help you,you can give her all the verse in the bible and she still not believe you,you be using the wrong interpetation or it will be out of contex, Give two or 3 verse and let it go she is your boss…good luck======PS did you church have mass today in the afternoon

 

[jean8]

My boss knows I’m Catholic. She’s a Baptist. If you check my other threads, I want to get out of this job, but, today, she started witnessing to me (because I was in black with black eyeshadow and told her it was because it was Good Friday mourning? Because she asked if we were allowed to eat today and I explained the rules? Because I asked her for the afternoon off so I could go to Mass?).

Everything was as fine as could be expected (I didn’t want to get into it with her), until she wanted to show me that she knows 100% she is going to go to Heaven and she will bring in scriptures to show me to prove it. I told her that that is presumption, I will hope I go to Heaven, I pray I go to Heaven, but, the only people who know are The Trinity.

She also believes that if you confess Jesus is Lord with your mouth, you will be saved (unless you didn’t really mean it).

I also told her I was born again, but, became Catholic later. She gave me a skeptical look like I was trying to pull one over on her.

I don’t want to get into it with her, and, I don’t know what I should do. Should I let it go and have her think she’s right? Should I explain in the Bible the whole “working out my salvation with fear and trembling,” et al?

I don’t want to, but, if I need to, what will she show me and what should I have as a reply? I have books on this, but, I don’t want to look through them or other threads at the moment.

UGH!! I can’t believe this happened on Good Friday. It took a lot for me to get focused for Mass (fortunately I have a 2 hour drive).

ads,
I’m sorry you had this sad event occur at your work place… It is a good lesson for you to know, religion shouldn’t be discussed at work.
If you choose to wear black on Good Friday, that is your affair. btw, I think it’s a fine idea. I was thinking about doing the same thing, but I don’t have outer wear in black. I live in a cold climate…
I hope this lady is saved, but only God knows our beginning and our end. Sin of pride is another issue to consider.Prov.16:7

God bless you, have a Joyous Easter.

jean

 

[Steven_John]

Rembmer two thing she is your boss and she is Baptist and Baptist believe in the false teaching off OSAS nothing you say will help you,you can give her all the verse in the bible and she still not believe you,you be using the wrong interpetation or it will be out of contex, Give two or 3 verse and let it go she is your boss…good luck======PS did you church have mass today in the afternoon

I agree that you may be correct but to say

“nothing you say will help you”
dont try to help yourself that is wrong, you need to serve her thats our call. You may help her most just by listening to her and really trying to understand how she could be correct.

Then Bill you offer “you can give her all the verse in the bible and she still not believe you” is wrong.

If i have got you right you suggest there is no hope, this is not true for God all things are possible.

If the spirit wants you to speak dont listen to any man who says not.

You may be His medium to plant seed in her or nourish one that is dormant.

Pray well and stay well

 

[adstrinity]

PS did you church have mass today in the afternoon

Tough question to answer simply. I don’t yet belong to a church officially down here. While there is a church less than 10 minutes away in my town, I drive the two hours to Tulsa where the FSSP celebrate the Mass at a church owned by others. I don’t know about the church closest to me, but, the Latin service today was a liturgy, as no Mass was supposed to be celebrated today. And, the liturgy is why I asked to leave work early.

ads,
I’m sorry you had this sad event occur at your work place… It is a good lesson for you to know, religion shouldn’t be discussed at work.
If you choose to wear black on Good Friday, that is your affair. btw, I think it’s a fine idea. I was thinking about doing the same thing, but I don’t have outer wear in black. I live in a cold climate…
I hope this lady is saved, but only God knows our beginning and our end. Sin of pride is another issue to consider.Prov.16:7

God bless you, have a Joyous Easter.

jean

And you as well! And all who answered! And all who read this! (TheAthiest & Stephen John, and all other non-Christians, may you sleep in comfortably that Sunday. )

The thing is, I don’t think my boss KNOWS much about Catholocism. I had to explain to her Fat Tuesday and the concept of Ash Wednesday and Lent.

AND, before I forget, I did look at the Eternal Salvation Tract offered through this website.

ridiculeddisply, it did get me to pray a lot more, I’ll tell you.

So, the concensus is to let it go? …BTW, every Monday she goes door to door evangilizing.

She told me before and after she hired me, and I confirmed it for her, that the Lord put me there for a reason. I think she thinks it is so she can bring me to Him. I think, it is to teach me humility, poverty, and at the very least, train the next girl so she wont have to be so burdened.

I think part of me is insulted that she thinks I don’t know Christ (pride, my pride), but, I SHOULD be compassionate as she’s thinking she’s trying to save my soul, and she is working hard enough at this to try to save me.

 

[VivienneJ]

The thing is, I don’t think my boss KNOWS much about Catholocism. I had to explain to her Fat Tuesday and the concept of Ash Wednesday and Lent.

So, the concensus is to let it go? …BTW, every Monday she goes door to door evangilizing.

Adstrinity, unless your boss has studied anything on her own it is likely that all she knows about Catholocism is what her pastor teaches. This would probably be restricted to matters such as: worshipping Mary and the saints, belief that confirmation saves us, we don’t really pray because we use the same words every Sunday.

Your whole problem is a very good illustration of why discussion of religion in the workplace should be restricted to asking about beliefs of those who are different from us (things that arise naturally from talking together) but there should never be any criticism of a person’s beliefs or an attempt made to get them to believe the same as you do. That should be done out of working hours, if someone has a genuine desire to learn more.

Maybe one Monday she’ll come to your door, so have your answers ready.

 

[RosaryFan]

My boss knows I’m Catholic. She’s a Baptist. If you check my other threads, I want to get out of this job, but, today, she started witnessing to me (because I was in black with black eyeshadow and told her it was because it was Good Friday mourning? Because she asked if we were allowed to eat today and I explained the rules? Because I asked her for the afternoon off so I could go to Mass?).

Everything was as fine as could be expected (I didn’t want to get into it with her), until she wanted to show me that she knows 100% she is going to go to Heaven and she will bring in scriptures to show me to prove it. I told her that that is presumption, I will hope I go to Heaven, I pray I go to Heaven, but, the only people who know are The Trinity.

She also believes that if you confess Jesus is Lord with your mouth, you will be saved (unless you didn’t really mean it).

I also told her I was born again, but, became Catholic later. She gave me a skeptical look like I was trying to pull one over on her.

I don’t want to get into it with her, and, I don’t know what I should do. Should I let it go and have her think she’s right? Should I explain in the Bible the whole “working out my salvation with fear and trembling,” et al?

I don’t want to, but, if I need to, what will she show me and what should I have as a reply? I have books on this, but, I don’t want to look through them or other threads at the moment.

UGH!! I can’t believe this happened on Good Friday. It took a lot for me to get focused for Mass (fortunately I have a 2 hour drive).

If you truly don’t want to get into it with her, why can’t you simply say that the work place is not an appropriate place to badger an employee about their faith. If she has a superior, why don’t you threaten to go to the superior with a complaint that she is harrassing you. Explain that we still have (but who know for how much longer) freedom of religion in our country.

People like this cannot be convinced. You will be wasting your time if you try. Do not cast you pearls to siwne.

Good luck and keep looking in those want ads!!

 

[adstrinity]

It is her business. She owns the business. Her and her husband.

 

[Sheeniac]

It is her business. She owns the business. Her and her husband.

That makes it tough!!

Perhaps you can steer the conversation around to things that we agree with the Baptists on! This way, you can gain rapport with her and avoid needless antagonism. I think you should take the lead so as to avoid controversial differences.

A good way would be to discuss the Gospel reading from Sunday. Get her perspective on it - share yours, and what the priest said. That way, she will learn that we do get to know the Bible! You might start by explaining the structure of the Mass.

The USCCB site has the daily readings, so you can also take a few minutes, read them and have more to discuss. Explain that the Church wants us to learn the Bible and that the daily readings are put together with care.

Prayers up for a new job!