Can I vote against this?

[NFrancis]

The Catholic Bishops Conference of Ohio has reccomended us to vote “Yes” for Issue 2. It has to do with an agricultural board. Big business has endorsed/supported it (lots of people think it is some kind of suspicious thing they are doing). It will be a permanent change to the constitution. However this can be created without an amendment and then easily changed. If it doesn’t pass I write to my representatives and ask them to pass something similar so they could change it if something went wrong.

Here are some sites about it:
ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Ohio_Livestock_Care_Standards,Issue_2%282009%29
ohioact.org/
dioceseofcleveland.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1131&catid=1&Itemid=534

 

[truevaticanii]

The Catholic Bishops Conference of Ohio has reccomended us to vote “Yes” for Issue 2. It has to do with an agricultural board. Big business has endorsed/supported it (lots of people think it is some kind of suspicious thing they are doing). It will be a permanent change to the constitution. However this can be created without an amendment and then easily changed. If it doesn’t pass I write to my representatives and ask them to pass something similar so they could change it if something went wrong.

Here are some sites about it:
ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Ohio_Livestock_Care_Standards,Issue_2%282009%29
ohioact.org/
dioceseofcleveland.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1131&catid=1&Itemid=534

I don’t know enough about this issue, but in general… I am very suspicious of the USCCB… I just wonder about some of the things they try to say, but sometimes they say some very good things…

The USCCB does support national health care… but you may know of a better reform of health care that would equally help all find a way to get to health care while being more just and less easily corrupted by a government.

 

[NFrancis]

I don’t know enough about this issue, but in general… I am very suspicious of the USCCB… I just wonder about some of the things they try to say, but sometimes they say some very good things…

The USCCB does support national health care… but you may know of a better reform of health care that would equally help all find a way to get to health care while being more just and less easily corrupted by a government.

I don’t think the bishops are corrupt or anything. It does sound like a good idea on paper. I just don’t think it should be part of the constitution.

I just want to know if I am obliged to vote Yes on this. I don’t think I am and just want to make sure.

 

[diggerdomer]

I don’t think the bishops are corrupt or anything. It does sound like a good idea on paper. I just don’t think it should be part of the constitution.

I just want to know if I am obliged to vote Yes on this. I don’t think I am and just want to make sure.

You are free to vote according to your conscience. I would strongly recommend you review the USCCB’s teaching on Faithful Citizenship when considering your voting choices.

faithfulcitizenship.org/

 

[m134e5]

I don’t think the bishops are corrupt or anything. It does sound like a good idea on paper. I just don’t think it should be part of the constitution.

I just want to know if I am obliged to vote Yes on this. I don’t think I am and just want to make sure.

No you are not obliged to vote “yes”. This could be handled simply by passing laws. The constitution is supposed to be a general document- the legislature can pass specific laws that don’t go against the constitution, but the constitution itself is not the place for specific laws. Their hearts may be in the right place, but I doubt many of the bishops are constitutional lawyers.

 

[1ke]

This could be handled simply by passing laws. The constitution is supposed to be a general document- the legislature can pass specific laws that don’t go against the constitution, but the constitution itself is not the place for specific laws. Their hearts may be in the right place, but I doubt many of the bishops are constitutional lawyers.

This is true of the Federal constitution. It is not true of many state constitutions. In many states, there must be constitutional ammendments for things like this. That is the case in Texas. That seems to be the case in Ohio since all three issues are constitutional ammendments.

There are **many **things at the state level that do not work by “simply passing laws.” The constitutions are written so that the **electorate **must vote on certain issues-- like issuing bonds, creating state boards, etc.

You are thinking Federal, not state. These probably would not be on the ballots as constitutional ammendments if the legislature could take them up through their processes-- it’s much harder to get things through a statewide ballot than the legislature. But, I am not an Ohioan, so I don’t know the specifics of their constitution.

I just wanted to point out the constitutional ammendments of this type at the state level are quite common.

 

[1ke]

The Catholic Bishops Conference of Ohio has reccomended us to vote “Yes” for Issue 2. It has to do with an agricultural board. Big business has endorsed/supported it (lots of people think it is some kind of suspicious thing they are doing). It will be a permanent change to the constitution. However this can be created without an amendment and then easily changed. If it doesn’t pass I write to my representatives and ask them to pass something similar so they could change it if something went wrong.

Here are some sites about it:
ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Ohio_Livestock_Care_Standards,Issue_2%282009%29
ohioact.org/
dioceseofcleveland.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1131&catid=1&Itemid=534

They are asking you to carefully consider it. In their position paper, the Bishops state this:

A voter’s position on Issue 2 involves a prudential judgment where persons of good will may differ as to the specifics of this proposal.

That means one may legitimately vote for or against this proposal (unlike, say, a pro-abortion proposal which you could never legitimately vote for), but they are asking you to strongly consider supporting it.

I’m not sure why you are considering voting against it. I know I would not want what happened in CA to happen in our state. It would kill agriculture. Those PETA nut cases are trying to get this crazy legislation passed everywhere and they started with CA. I think Ohioans should seriously consider that!

 

[ricko]

I read the first link and if it is accurate it sounds great to me. Something a Christian would be for it seems. As far as myself, I would vote for it. Your decision.

 

[crazzeto]

I don’t know enough about this issue, but in general… I am very suspicious of the USCCB…

Why exactly? These are the leaders of the faith in the US. if you’re american, and catholic…

I just wonder about some of the things they try to say, but sometimes they say some very good things…

Like what? The USCCB has been excellent standing up for Church moral teaching, I’ve come to truely appriciate them and the ways in which they speak out. And at risk of mentioning politics when I don’t intend to necessarly, I feel I must disclose I was a whole hearted Obama Supporter durring the election. But yet, I stand with the USCCB, they are correct on issues of morals. There have been some comments made by US Bishops independant of the whole USCCB which I’ve had some trouble with however.

The USCCB does support national health care… but you may know of a better reform of health care that would equally help all find a way to get to health care while being more just and less easily corrupted by a government.

Yes, but they don’t endorce “government run” healthcare. On a personal level, I’m not against it. I think a public option, which remains a mere option could be good for the market as a whole. The USCCB doesn’t see it that way, they tend to view this and government encroaching on healthcare and are wary that the government would move quickly to take over the whole system. Maybe they’re right, maybe not. I have a feeling we’ll never find out because I have a feeling a public option won’t pass.

All that said, the USCCB does in fact whole heartedly, and emphatically OPPOSE the currently proposed health care reform options. They oppose this because of the inclusion of expanding abortion in America. While I am also a whole hearted supporter of health reform, like the USCCB I am quickly finding my self dissolutioned and dissapointed that legislators are taking the oppertunity to try and expand abortion “rights”.

 

[Ender]

Why exactly? These are the leaders of the faith in the US. if you’re american, and catholic…

The bishops are the leaders of the faith but this is not an issue that deals with the faith; it is a prudential question - a political issue, and the bishops do us a disservice by inferring that we have some moral obligation to assent to their political opinions.

I know nothing whatever about the issue in question except this: it is not a moral issue and the bishops misuse their moral authority when they apply it to political choices. We have no more of an obligation to accept the bishops position on issues like this than we have to accept the positions of our elected representatives.

Ender

 

[crazzeto]

The bishops are the leaders of the faith but this is not an issue that deals with the faith; it is a prudential question - a political issue, and the bishops do us a disservice by inferring that we have some moral obligation to assent to their political opinions.

I know nothing whatever about the issue in question except this: it is not a moral issue and the bishops misuse their moral authority when they apply it to political choices. We have no more of an obligation to accept the bishops position on issues like this than we have to accept the positions of our elected representatives.

Ender

I’m not familiar personally with this particular (local) bill. But I will suggest that if the USCCB is asking for your support, then it is not for no good reason. The USCCB upholds the entirty of the faith for us here in the USA. Not just the theological questions, because our faith demands a certain moral behaviour. Our Bishops, indeed our Church at large asks, and even requires that we stand up for moral issues. If we do not, then we become culpable of sin through ambivalence. Abortion, sanctitiy of marriage, decency laws… These are all important, core moral issues, which affect natural law which we must uphold and defend.

Don’t think this is a “seperation of church and state” issue, which technically the constitution never decree’s anywhere (though the church does support). Rather, this is a question of basic morality. These issues you seem to be upset about are the basic standard of our society. Giving ground here has gigantic reprocutions for us westerners.