Can Jesus Trip Accidentally?

[Timawa]

A very silly question, I know, but it’s quite curious of an idea. In the Passion of Christ (2004), Mel Gibson included a flashback sequence wherein Jesus as a Child tripped and fell down, making Mary run towards Him to help him up. To put the question into context, Christ is Divine, and from this divinity, He is omniscient. With that in mind, could there be a possibility that Christ trips, let’s say on a rock or something, assuming His Body is in perfect condition (i.e. not subject to the stress and pains during His Passion)?

 

[Muze]

I believe most scholars claim that Jesus veiled himself from his “omni” powers, including omniscience. So, it is perfectly valid to say that Jesus can trip accidentally.

(Then again, there is the theology of open theism which says that the future is logically unknowable, and thus God doesn’t know the exact course of the future.)

 

[aemcpa]

(Then again, there is the theology of open theism which says that the future is logically unknowable, and thus God doesn’t know the exact course of the future.)

This is heresy and blasphemy.

 

[meltzerboy]

I believe most scholars claim that Jesus veiled himself from his “omni” powers, including omniscience. So, it is perfectly valid to say that Jesus can trip accidentally.

(Then again, there is the theology of open theism which says that the future is logically unknowable, and thus God doesn’t know the exact course of the future.)

The theology of “open theism”? What exactly is that theology that does not attribute omniscience to G-d? Not a Christian, Jewish, or Islamic theology, I take it, or is it a particular denominational belief within Protestantism?

 

[Muze]

The theology of “open theism”? What exactly is that theology that does not attribute omniscience to G-d? Not a Christian, Jewish, or Islamic theology, I take it, or is it a particular denominational belief within Protestantism?

Actually, open theism embraces omniscience, but believes that the future isn’t knowable, and thus wouldn’t be included in the “all things” that are known. It’s the idea of dynamic omniscience, where God knows all things when they are knowable.

This isn’t a particular denomination, indeed there are open theists in many denominations (although not many in Calvinist denominations), including Catholics who are open theists.

 

[Muze]

This is heresy and blasphemy.

Please point to the council that declares it to be heresy.

 

[Pugsly]

Please point to the council that declares it to be heresy.

You are a very patient person. May God continue to bless you.

 

[aemcpa]

Please point to the council that declares it to be heresy.

Lateran Council IV. This “open theism” denies that God is immutable; the Lateran Council confessed that God is “unchangeable… absolutely simple…” and anathematized “every heresy that raises against the holy, orthodox and Catholic faith which we have above explained”.

fordham.edu/halsall/basis/lateran4.asp

 

[Pugsly]

Lateran Council IV. This “open theism” denies that God is immutable; the Lateran Council confessed that God is “unchangeable… absolutely simple…” and anathematized “every heresy that raises against the holy, orthodox and Catholic faith which we have above explained”.

fordham.edu/halsall/basis/lateran4.asp

I believe God is simply immutable in His ability to be utterly stable in newness…;- ]

“Behold, I make all things new”

If the baby Jesus doesn’t need to root for the nimple like other babies…if He didn’t trip or get cut by accident…then He was only pretending to be human among us…and furthermore it was to thrust a monster in our midst

 

[aemcpa]

I believe God is simply immutable in His ability to be utterly stable in newness…;- ]

“Behold, I make all things new”

If the baby Jesus doesn’t need to root for the nimple like other babies…if He didn’t trip or get cut by accident…then He was only pretending to be human among us…and furthermore it was to thrust a monster in our midst

I wasn’t responding to the original post. The Church never taught that Christ in His humanity had the divine attributes, since they do not pertain to the human nature that He assumed.

 

[John_Q_Sinner]

A very silly question, I know, but it’s quite curious of an idea. In the Passion of Christ (2004), Mel Gibson included a flashback sequence wherein Jesus as a Child tripped and fell down, making Mary run towards Him to help him up. To put the question into context, Christ is Divine, and from this divinity, He is omniscient. With that in mind, could there be a possibility that Christ trips, let’s say on a rock or something, assuming His Body is in perfect condition (i.e. not subject to the stress and pains during His Passion)?

Christ has two natures, one fully human and one fully divine. This is why in the Scriptures you read verese that say things like “he grew in wisdom…” even though He is God who knows all things. Christ chose to have His human nature experience the same things as ours (except sin), so He experienced hunger, fatigue, thirst, and the occasional accidental trip and fall. The humility of such a God is incomprehensible and the love He had…well no words do it justice. Just think of how much He loved us to make Himself so vulnerable. Amazing.

 

[R_C]

Please point to the council that declares it to be heresy.

Interesting question from a non-Catholic. Regardless, Councils do not meet to condemn every heresy there is, otherwise we would need quite a few councils to condemn all 41000 Christian doctrines that currently exist, pointing out the major theological and scriptural errors they each carry, and p(name removed by moderator)ointing the original heresiarch of the doctrine. That is somewhat unnecessary.

But since I know you have a keen appreciation of Scripture even beyond whatever any saint or theologian may have written in the past, I’ll point you to Psalm 139, Psalm 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8 :

in your book they were all written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet there were none of them

A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by

But do not forget this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

This is not dynamic, selective knowledge. This is perfect knowledge of everything that will happen.

As St. Thomas Aquinas writes:

God knows all things; not only things actual but also things possible to Him and creature; and since some of these are future contingent to us, it follows that God knows future contingent things.

In evidence of this, we must consider that a contingent thing can be considered in two ways; first, in itself, in so far as it is now in act: and in this sense it is not considered as future, but as present; neither is it considered as contingent (as having reference) to one of two terms, but as determined to one; and on account of this it can be infallibly the object of certain knowledge, for instance to the sense of sight, as when I see that Socrates is sitting down.

In another way a contingent thing can be considered as it is in its cause; and in this way it is considered as future, and as a contingent thing not yet determined to one; forasmuch as a contingent cause has relation to opposite things: and in this sense a contingent thing is not subject to any certain knowledge. Hence, whoever knows a contingent effect in its cause only, has merely a conjectural knowledge of it.

Now God knows all contingent things not only as they are in their causes, but also as each one of them is actually in itself.

And although contingent things become actual successively, nevertheless God knows contingent things not successively, as they are in their own being, as we do but simultaneously.

The reason is because His knowledge is measured by eternity, as is also His being; and eternity being simultaneously whole comprises all time, as said above (Question 10, Article 2).

Hence all things that are in time are present to God from eternity, not only because He has the types of things present within Him, as some say; but because His glance is carried from eternity over all things as they are in their presentiality.

Hence it is manifest that contingent things are infallibly known by God, inasmuch as they are subject to the divine sight in their presentiality; yet they are future contingent things in relation to their own causes.

…] things known by God are contingent on account of their proximate causes, while the knowledge of God, which is the first cause, is necessary.

…] Things reduced to act in time, as known by us successively in time, but by God (are known) in eternity, which is above time.

Whence to us they cannot be certain, forasmuch as we know future contingent things as such; but (they are certain) to God alone, whose understanding is in eternity above time. Just as he who goes along the road, does not see those who come after him; whereas he who sees the whole road from a height, sees at once all travelling by the way.

 

[aemcpa]

Don’t forget:
Malachi 3:6:

For I am the LORD, I change not.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.”

 

[Muze]

Lateran Council IV. This “open theism” denies that God is immutable; the Lateran Council confessed that God is “unchangeable… absolutely simple…” and anathematized “every heresy that raises against the holy, orthodox and Catholic faith which we have above explained”.

fordham.edu/halsall/basis/lateran4.asp

Open Theist believe God is immutable in his nature. Nice try, though.

 

[Muze]

Don’t forget:

Don’t forget context. Mal 3:6 refers to God keeping covenant. Jer 1 simply means God knew how he was going to guide Jeremiah’s life before he was born.

 

[Muze]

Interesting question from a non-Catholic. Regardless, Councils do not meet to condemn every heresy there is, otherwise we would need quite a few councils to condemn all 41000 Christian doctrines that currently exist, pointing out the major theological and scriptural errors they each carry, and p(name removed by moderator)ointing the original heresiarch of the doctrine. That is somewhat unnecessary.

It’s kinda funny to see that number go up. I’m betting some RCC says 50,000 by the end of the year.

But since I know you have a keen appreciation of Scripture even beyond whatever any saint or theologian may have written in the past, I’ll point you to Psalm 139, Psalm 90:4,

Psalms are poetry, and should be read as poetry, including the use of symbolism and hyperbole, as is the case here. Yes, it’s still useful, but it has to be read as poetry, not as direct doctrine.

2 Peter 3:8 :

Which just means that God doesn’t place the importance on the passage of time as we do.

This is not dynamic, selective knowledge. This is perfect knowledge of everything that will happen.

Sorry, but none of these claim this.

Consider for a moment Genesis 22:12. GOD says, “Now I know…” in response to Abraham raising the knife to kill Isaac. This is a temporal reference to when God comes to know something.

And Consider Jeremiah 3:6-7. God thinks Israel will do something, and she doesn’t.

Both clearly suggest something about God based upon His own words.

As St. Thomas Aquinas writes:

Which only shows that Aquinas isn’t infallible.

 

[Pugsly]

Don’t forget context. Mal 3:6 refers to God keeping covenant. Jer 1 simply means God knew how he was going to guide Jeremiah’s life before he was born.

The other day at the baseball field…I said to the man next to me…this kid is going to strike out on a high fastball…moments later he swung and missed a high fastball…then I told the same man…this next kid is gonna hit a grand slam …and he did after 2 more pitches.

Question…if human beings can predict future events by understanding the people and things in play…isn’t God FAR, FAR, FAR more Wise and Understanding?

Isn’t it possible that God could know what will happen and still it be NEW to Him?

 

[Muze]

The other day at the baseball field…I said to the man next to me…this kid is going to strike out on a high fastball…moments later he swung and missed a high fastball…then I told the same man…this next kid is gonna hit a grand slam …and he did after 2 more pitches.

You had present knowledge of the pitcher’s and batter’s tendencies (and you could have been wrong). That’s not foreknowledge.

And you had present knowledge of the possibility of a grand slam, and knew the potential of the kid at the plate… and you got lucky.

Nothing here about foreknowledge.

Question…if human beings can predict future events by understanding the people and things in play…isn’t God FAR, FAR, FAR more Wise and Understanding?

Predicting the future isn’t foreknowledge. It’s guessing about the future based upon present knowledge.

And, if you believe we have free will, then you have another problem:

Free will and foreknowledge aren’t compatible

Isn’t it possible that God could know what will happen and still it be NEW to Him?

No. If He knew it, then it wouldn’t be new.

 

[Daniel_Lysinger]

Yes, Jesus CAN trip accidentally. Remember, he took on our human nature, and since for humans it is possible to trip accidentally, therefore, it is possible for Jesus.

 

[Pugsly]

Yes, Jesus CAN trip accidentally. Remember, he took on our human nature, and since for humans it is possible to trip accidentally, therefore, it is possible for Jesus.

Spot on