If apes are just like us, with their moral codes etc., why aren’t they endowed by a soul and promise of an afterlife in heaven then? We aren’t they seeking God?
I can only imagine from these word pictures what must be running around in your head. What I will tell you is that you should ask yourself this question: Why would 99.5% of hundreds of thousands of christian, islamic, jewish, hindu and atheistic scientists from many different fields, after years of study, all state that evolution is the fundamental theory for the development of the variety of life on earth? And yet, with your intuitive grasp of the subject you disagree. But hey, the field is open and you could still get that Nobel Prize by proving them all wrong.
JMJTheresa…you wanna claim this guy? Needs that God of Love talk.
Yeah, thats right!!!
This all seems very much a rehash of the orginal post I responded to, which is very much an explaination of how it works but doesn’t go into why it matters. It seems very much a circular arguement to me, humans do this to survive, but my question is why do they need to survive? I can understand what your saying they have evolved throughout the ages biologically to favor choices that will help them survive, but as we look at this objectivly what does it matter if humans survive. You seem to have some type of faith that it actually matters if you live & that others should live too.
I certainly hope that we all can agree that Edwards is a fraud doing something called “cold readings”. Though I worry about a couple here who said anything’s possible. That was not the point of the thread however. I attempted to get those here to ask themselves " why do I think Edwards is a crook, but Moses talking to God…well, I believe that, why?
First, no species needs to survive. Millions have already gone extinct. Todays species simply do survive because they are adapted. We on the other hand have the intelligence to be able to comprehend the meaning of death, which allows us to WANT to live. We don’t NEED to live, any more than a mouse needs to live, from nature’s standpoint. As mice probably don’t contemplate death, the idea of “wanting” to live probably doesn’t occur…they simply react to needs and threats on instinct. We as sentient beings can be aware that the universe doesn’t care if we live, so we don’t matter, in that sense. But staying alive does MATTER to us because we can appreciate the alternative. So when we evolved in small groups it would matter to all that individuals survived because we depended on each other. Bottom line, we evolved brains that were capable of thinking “life matters to me, Iwant to live”. Couple that to emotional brain centers evolving at the same time and, voila, “it really matters to me that I stay alive and keep my friends alive so we can all eat, screw and be happy”. You can see where that revelation would be of even greater survival value than just reacting to the environment.
I didn’t say apes were just like us, did I? They are not intelligent enough to have a god idea, are they? They do have a sense of right and wrong when it comes to doing things that may cause dangerous retribution from the group. Chimps will, in fact, murder. They are empathetic to the suffering of others. What is morality other than internal and external pressure to behave in an accepted way. Humans tend to attribute this to a god, chimps don’t. If it was only a matter of individual survival all animals would kill all others, even their own species at random… they don’t.
Have you ever known of the assumption of naturalistic causes to be in error. Why would you go against your own reasoning and give Moses or Pat Robertson a pass and say “maybe God does talk to them.” Rev. Pat is here and now, isn’t that more credible than a 3000 year old story.
I agree. My fear is that if it carries on a certain abcdefg might jump in!!
So the asumptions made for naturalistic causes are valid, but any other type of cause is invalid?
Sooner or later you just have to say “the universe just IS” or “God just IS”. I only have information on the first.
No, you did not answer my question. Your “fact” is patently false. Evolution explains how a god is apparently irrelevant to the process, which is why so many of faith are opposed to it. Many of the scientist who take the religious view are signers of the Discovery Institute’s document opposing the evolution theory. There are several hundred of them. Interestingly, they have no scientific studies that prove it false, they just don’t like the odds. Additionally, there is another list of scientists that agree with the theory, but their first name must be Steve. There are now over 700 on the list. What does that tell you?
But think about that. The universe certainly exists.
Okay, maybe I am not the best at explaining this. I need more humiltiy. The point is until you start off from the point that “God is Love” you cannot have an understanding of Catholic faith. You are setting up a straw god and then rejecting the faith of people who do not even worship that god.
No you don’t, you’re fine. You’re probably a very kind, honorable person who finds the thought of an all loving God very meaningful. You are sincere in wanting me to feel the same thing. How could I feel insulted? I don’t. I know you don’t believe in the boogieman god.
Mortal sin requires full knowlege and full consent. If you miss mass with that full intention you are choosing not-god. If you are on your way to confession, then you won’t be in hell. You need a better apologist than me for details and details are what you should want if you want to know why…
This is a really excellent point and one I have struggled with. My answer to you is that the Old testament is . . . very Old. It is a document written about ancient times and written in some very mystical sense, e.g. the sacrifice is a prefigurement of Christ.
This answer will only take you so far. Man’s (my) desire to deceive myself to eat twinkies because really its good for me–it helps me destress–is my will being in actuality self indulgent.