Can Joseph, David, and Abraham be "The fathers of God"?

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Triumphant_Of_Christ

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Hello, so I’ve been thinking about how Mary is the Mother of God and St. Anne is the Grandmother of God and thought “since If Mary is the Mother of God and St. Anne can be called the Grandmother of God then why can’t St. Joseph, King David, or Abraham be Called the Fathers of God? since Jesus is God and is called the son of David, the son of St. Joseph, and the son of Abraham in Matt 1:1?”

What do you think of this? Does it sound Absurd or Blasphemous?
 
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The Church doesn’t give them these titles…so I wouldn’t presume to do so. Mary’s role in salvation history is unique…she herself bore Christ in her womb, so we give her the title Mother of God. St. Joseph is sometimes addressed as the Foster Father of the Son of God. You could say that Abraham et al are “fathers of the Son of God according to the flesh”, but I wouldn’t go beyond that.
 
Actually we give her the title Mother of God, Dei Para or Theotokos as allowed by the Council of Ephesus in contradistinction to the Nestorian heresy because Mary was the mother of a single person: Jesus. The whole point of the hyspostatic union is that Jesus is one person with two natures and Mary gave birth to a person, not a nature. By extension of course all Mary’s forebears take the appropriate position re Jesus as they would any other person. The Church does not give them such titles, true, but as a fact they are certainly grandparents, great-gp(s), uncles, aunts, etc.
 
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twf said:
The Church doesn’t give them these titles…so I wouldn’t presume to do so.
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Hmm…
Jesus questioned [the Pharisees], saying, “What is your opinion about the Messiah? Whose son is he?” They replied, “David’s.”

He said to them, “How, then, does David, inspired by the Spirit, call him ‘lord,’ saying: ‘The Lord said to my lord, “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies under your feet”’? If David calls him ‘lord,’ how can he be his son?”

No one was able to answer him a word
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Matthew is affirming the naming of the Messiah “David’s son”.

😉
 
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Joseph in the line of David? So Jesus was essentially the Foster Child of the Line of David (still part of the line by inheritance) and Mary had to be sinless and had the bloodline from Adam.

But no, I don’t think any of them would be true “Fathers” because Jesus only has one Father in Heaven - God the Father - 1st Person of the Trinity.

I’m pretty sure this is why Matthew emphasizes Joseph (he’s speaking to Jews - Line of David).

Luke is speaking to Gentiles, which to me must be associated with all humanity (descendants of Adam) thus he emphasizes Mary.
 
Gorgias said:
Matthew is affirming the naming of the Messiah “David’s son”.
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That’s not the same thing as giving David the title “Father of God”. The Church has never used such a title to my knowledge.
 
The word “God” is used only very sparingly, in this connection. No one ever called Bethlehem “the birthplace of God” or John the Baptist “the kinsman of God.” Better keep it that way, I think.
 
The whole point of Ephesus, in its repudiation of the Nestorian Heresy, was that Jesus is fully God and fully man. The two natures of Jesus joined in one person…the hypostatic union. Because of that Mary is properly called the Mother of God (Mater Dei, Dei Para, Theotokos). Jesus was most certainly born in Bethlehem. It’s more accurate, and consistent with Ephesus, to call Bethlehem the “Birthplace of God” than to deny it is the Birthplace of God - which is probably heresy. As a prudential matter, whether to actually call it that can be argued, the fact remains that that is what it is. Certainly it’s not wrong to call it that. Similarly re John the Baptist.
 
Of course this also means, as a matter of civil relationship, we are all XXX cousins YYY times removed in the descendancy from Jesus…a fact…
 
twf said:
That’s not the same thing as giving David the title “Father of God”.
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Well, it would have to be “great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather of God”, wouldn’t it?
 
Technically correct, but to my knowledge the Church does not honour them with those titles.
 
Well, Mary IS the genetic mom of Jesus, HE was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit in her.
St. Joseph is is earthly father in the sense that he provided the male counterpart that a human family has, but he is not Jesus genetic father.
Hence Mary is the mother of GOD since Jesus IS GOD but we cannot say that St. Joseph is “the father of GOD” in a true sense.
We don’t ascribe motherhood to the grandmother of Mary or any previous relatives.

Peace!
 
The East venerates him with that title. From
your handle, I’d thought you’d know.
 
I see the Scripturally-based “Brother of the Lord”, but I don’t see “Brother of God” anywhere.
 
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