Can Judas be forgiven?

[wisedom]

It is significant that at the Last Supper, Jesus handed the Bread dipped in Wine, first to Judas instead of to John, who was entitled to it first, as he was the youngest and the most beloved!..as per the Jewish custom ( learnt from reliable source)…

Jesus knew Judas was about to betray him and confirmed his love for him by offering to him the first share of the breaking of his/the body/ bread…( i don’t remember the actual explanation given by the priest on tv)

it would be wiser were we to offer the most creative and positive interpretations of the WORD OF GOD, if we are to truly comprehend the Scripture in its totality and limitlessness and WISDOM!

 

[PeaceInChrist]

Wisedom, I feel that you are selectively quoting Scripture. Jesus also says that it would be better for Judas not to have been born (He never says this of any other sinner). He calls him a devil. It is also very speculative to say that Judas knew that Jesus was omnipotent. He may not have believed He was the true Messiah, as he was a Zealot and wanted the Romans destroyed by force. He may have disbelieved Christ because he was trying to fit Christ to his image of the Messiah (as we all seem to do).

You are being relatively harsh on many for condemning Judas, yet you yourself are proclaiming that Judas has been saved. The truth is this: we cannot know. The Church has not proclaimed him to be in heaven, thus we have no idea, and it is not within our bounds to proclaim anything about Judas or any other person who has died. We must simply have faith in God.

I also am in doubt about his remorse vs his repentance. Did Judas repent and ask for mercy from God? Or did he regret his sin so much that he despaired? We don’t know, and I feel that judging either way is inappropriate, prideful (in believing we can interpret Scripture to determine an issue that the Magisterium itself is silent upon, and dabling in God’s Judgement, of which we have no part), and a misuse of Scripture in the form of eisegesis (God’s Word is there to communicate Truth and lead us to Salvation, not to be interpreted to speculate on Judas Iscariot’s salvation. The Magisterium has made no definitive statement as to his salvation of which I am aware; neither shall I).

 

[cap76]

Judas did not HAVE to betray Our Lord. He CHOSE to. Even in the closing hours Our Lord offered him one last chance to change course by offering him the sop first, before any of the other disciples. Judas was not some pre-programmed robot without free will. He had free will. If Judas had changed course I am certain that God in his divine wisdom and providence would have seen to it that the mission was still accomplished albeit in a slightly different way.

Yes, he chose to but it was inevitable that he would. His betrayal was predicted thousands of years before it happened. There was no other course possible for him to take. God’s purpose and plan was that Judas would not only want to do this, but would carry it out according to every prophetic detail recorded in Scripture i.e. holding the office of an apostle, betraying the Lord, agreeing to thirty pieces of silver, etc.

 

[wisedom]

you are equally selectively quoting Scripture…to support your view…i am just stating my views on the basis of what i have read, heard, experienced of the Word…and from varied sources, at this point of time, only Catholic, but am open from now on to hear the interpretations of other religions…

i fail to understand how i can be relatively harsh on many for their condemning of Judas, as that is their prerogative!..i do not intend to thrust my views as correct on anyone, but to understand Scripture in its totality on the basis of contradictory statements that are there for a purpose!

if you have doubts it is your problem and your capacity OR its lack, to understand…

i am stating my views and they need not be understood as proclamation or judgement or whatever…

the magisterium if silent offers its members the opportunity to read, study, and interpret the Word as per their CONSCIENCE, and debate the matter to obtain a better understanding of any Scripture, on the basis of what other members, apart from/other than themselves think or believe!

“TRUTH IS OFTEN ECLIPSED, BUT IT CAN NEVER BE EXTINGUISHED”

CONCLUDED…

as an after-thought, it appears that you are PROJECTING your own selectivity, harshness, proclamation, judgement, etc. on to me!..and if i may add, intolerance too!

GOD’S,Peace in Christ!

 

[cap76]

you are equally selectively quoting Scripture…to support your view…i am just stating my views on the basis of what i have read, heard, experienced of the Word…and from varied sources, at this point of time, only Catholic, but am open from now on to hear the interpretations of other religions…

i fail to understand how i can be relatively harsh on many for their condemning of Judas, as that is their prerogative!..i do not intend to thrust my views as correct on anyone, but to understand Scripture in its totality on the basis of contradictory statements that are there for a purpose!

if you have doubts it is your problem and your capacity OR its lack, to understand…

i am stating my views and they need not be understood as proclamation or judgement or whatever…

the magisterium if silent offers its members the opportunity to read, study, and interpret the Word as per their CONSCIENCE, and debate the matter to obtain a better understanding of any Scripture, on the basis of what other members, apart from/other than themselves think or believe!

“TRUTH IS OFTEN ECLIPSED, BUT IT CAN NEVER BE EXTINGUISHED”

CONCLUDED…

as an after-thought, it appears that you are PROJECTING your own selectivity, harshness, proclamation, judgement, etc. on to me!..and if i may add, intolerance too!

GOD’S,Peace in Christ!

Dear Wisedom,

PeaceinChrist is right. The Word of God makes it pretty clear that Judas Iscariot was a vile human being. When Jesus gave the sop to Judas it to reveal the person who was to betray Him not to give him a chance to opt out. “So that disciple, leaning back against Jesus, said to him, “Lord, who is it?” Jesus answered, ”It is he to whom I will give this morsel of bread when I have dipped it.” So when he had dipped the morsel, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot." John 13

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Well, Judas is dead now, so if he wasn’t forgiven already, then no. But he COULD have been forgiven, sure. We don’t really know.

The real question is, why the fascination with the possibility that a man could be damned? Shouldn’t we be more interested in the possibility that he could be saved, and pray for him?

 

[Margarete_Faust]

A priest at my church addressed the Judas issue in a sermon once. I think it brings some light on the matter: what Judas did to Christ was bad, but still not as bad as what Peter did to Christ. Judas betrayed Christ, but Peter denied Christ.

At the same time, Judas did not trust in God’s love and mercy. Judas felt that his sin was so bad that he could never be forgiven, and he subsequently hung himself. Peter trusted in God’s love and mercy and did penance for his grave sin. Peter attained salvation, while Judas threw his chance of salvation away by not trusting in God’s saving grace.

As the priest said “The sin of Judas is the sin of giving up”. We can all learn from this. No matter how low we go, we only have to repent and turn back to God with the trust that He knows our hearts and will forgive us if we seek forgiveness. Absolution must come from both ends. Peter recognized that.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

A priest at my church addressed the Judas issue in a sermon once. I think it brings some light on the matter: what Judas did to Christ was bad, but still not as bad as what Peter did to Christ. Judas betrayed Christ, but Peter denied Christ.

I’ve heard this said before, and I still don’t buy it.

What’s worse to you-your best friend bringing over thugs to mug and rob you or your best friend watching while it happens?

I don’t know about you, but I’d be WAAAAAY more mad at the guy who brought the thugs over in the first place. Sure, I’d be pretty angry at my second friend, but at least he didn’t bring people to mug me.

I always thought the whole “What Peter did was worse” thing was ridiculous.

That said, you’re absolutely right-Peter asked for forgiveness while Judas, as far as we know, simply gave up, and that’s the difference.

 

[wisedom]

A priest at my church addressed the Judas issue in a sermon once. I think it brings some light on the matter: what Judas did to Christ was bad, but still not as bad as what Peter did to Christ. Judas betrayed Christ, but Peter denied Christ.

At the same time, Judas did not trust in God’s love and mercy. Judas felt that his sin was so bad that he could never be forgiven, and he subsequently hung himself. Peter trusted in God’s love and mercy and did penance for his grave sin. Peter attained salvation, while Judas threw his chance of salvation away by not trusting in God’s saving grace.

As the priest said “The sin of Judas is the sin of giving up”. We can all learn from this. No matter how low we go, we only have to repent and turn back to God with the trust that He knows our hearts and will forgive us if we seek forgiveness. Absolution must come from both ends. Peter recognized that.

the point is whether Judas’ sin is the most serious of all sins, and whether his sin overshadows or outweighs the Mercy of God

in the context of Jesus loving the sinner, but not the sin, and the TRUTH that as per Mathew, Judas had indeed repented (REPENTED), there is no ambiguity that Judas had to be forgiven…

there is a school of thought, that in the end, all people will be forgiven and will see God!..i prefer to go by this view, as explained in the parable of the tenants in the vineyard, if you understand it w r t the topic at hand…

who will be the more grateful to God: the one who was forgiven the minor sin or the greater/greatest? (from scripture)

 

[wisedom]

Yes, he chose to but it was inevitable that he would. His betrayal was predicted thousands of years before it happened. There was no other course possible for him to take. God’s purpose and plan was that Judas would not only want to do this, but would carry it out according to every prophetic detail recorded in Scripture i.e. holding the office of an apostle, betraying the Lord, agreeing to thirty pieces of silver, etc.

If that was God’s purpose and plan, just as the Crucifixion of Jesus was, then Judas could not have done otherwise and he acted as per God’s Will in his life or for him!

God could have fulfilled REDEMPTION easily without incriminating Judas, but that would not have been the best plan, so the question is why?

The Spirit, it is that is paramount, and is eternal!..Jesus never died for he is the ETERNAL WORD and so will we also not die, for we will be resurrected!

St John’s idea, it is, that Jesus Resurrected himself on the cross itself and we now find the crucifix with a Resurrected, not dead, Jesus on it!

so the Scripture is interpretable at different layers, until we get to its CORE!

(my views are based on sermons heard or books read… Catholic)

Note: SO IF JESUS IS ALIVE AND SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, HOW COULD JUDAS HAVE BEEN GUILTY OF ‘KILLING’ HIM???

Food for Thought!

 

[PeaceInChrist]

Wisedom, I’m sorry, but you are still selectively interpreting Scripture. You are taking Judas’s regret as automatic repentance, and discounting the fact that Christ called him a devil, said it would be better had he not been born, and also Judas despaired and killed himself. Surely Christ’s mercy is endless, but the fact is that you cannot pronounce that he was saved. You just can’t. You’re doing the same thing as others who claim he was damned. We simply do not know, and we won’t know until the last day.

This is such a fruitless discussion. Why can’t we just be silent on the matter? It is not our job or place to speculate on God’s judgement. It is way out of line. Let’s just pray for the salvation of all, offer up prayers for those in Purgatory, and not worry about God’s judgement. It is not our place, and it will gain us nothing.

 

[wisedom]

Wisedom, I’m sorry, but you are still selectively interpreting Scripture. You are taking Judas’s regret as automatic repentance, and discounting the fact that Christ called him a devil, said it would be better had he not been born, and also Judas despaired and killed himself. Surely Christ’s mercy is endless, but the fact is that you cannot pronounce that he was saved. You just can’t. You’re doing the same thing as others who claim he was damned. We simply do not know, and we won’t know until the last day.

This is such a fruitless discussion. Why can’t we just be silent on the matter? It is not our job or place to speculate on God’s judgement. It is way out of line. Let’s just pray for the salvation of all, offer up prayers for those in Purgatory, and not worry about God’s judgement. It is not our place, and it will gain us nothing.

I am stating just what i am believing and others are stating what they believe…there is no- body pronouncing judgement but only discussing…

if others claim he is damned, i have no objection at all…

no discussion is fruitless, if we endeavour to see the positive and creative aspects of it…

if you are not interested in discussions, it is only proper for you to be silent, pray and not worry…

GOD’S peace in CHRIST!

 

[PeaceInChrist]

I am stating just what i am believing and others are stating what they believe…there is no- body pronouncing judgement but only discussing…

if others claim he is damned, i have no objection at all…

no discussion is fruitless, if we endeavour to see the positive and creative aspects of it…

if you are not interested in discussions, it is only proper for you to be silent, pray and not worry…

GOD’S peace in CHRIST!

You seemed to have an objection to others claiming he was damned. I base this on your other posts. You responded quite passionately to them, in fact.

This particular discussion is fruitless because it is speculation on whether or not a particular person was saved. What will this benefit us? It is purely speculative, and places us in the position of guessing at God’s judgement, which is entirely out of our bounds.

The answer is: Yes, Judas could have been saved, but we do not know if he was.

It is really that simple.

 

[cap76]

IF JESUS IS ALIVE AND SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, HOW COULD JUDAS HAVE BEEN GUILTY OF ‘KILLING’ HIM?

Judas didn’t betray his friend out of a desire to see Him risen from the dead, but a desire to get rich. Judas knew he was guilty of betrayal hence his self-muder

Judas isn’t guilty of killing Jesus. He is guilty of betraying Jesus into the hands of would-be murderers.

 

[wisedom]

Judas didn’t betray his friend out of a desire to see Him risen from the dead, but a desire to get rich. Judas knew he was guilty of betrayal hence his self-muder

Judas isn’t guilty of killing Jesus. He is guilty of betraying Jesus into the hands of would-be murderers.

when ‘all is well that ends well’, where is the GUILT?

 

[Porknpie]

the point is whether Judas’ sin is the most serious of all sins, and whether his sin overshadows or outweighs the Mercy of God

in the context of Jesus loving the sinner, but not the sin, and the TRUTH that as per Mathew, Judas had indeed repented (REPENTED), there is no ambiguity that Judas had to be forgiven…

there is a school of thought, that in the end, all people will be forgiven and will see God!..i prefer to go by this view, as explained in the parable of the tenants in the vineyard, if you understand it w r t the topic at hand…

who will be the more grateful to God: the one who was forgiven the minor sin or the greater/greatest? (from scripture)

Scripture does not say Judas repented.

1. Acknowledging that you have sinned is only the first step … Judas did this.
2. Second step is to ask for forgiveness with a sincere heart … Judas did not do this.
3. 3rd step is to commit oneself to not sinning again … Judas did not do this either.

3 Then Judas, his betrayer, seeing that Jesus had been condemned, deeply regretted what he had done. He returned the thirty pieces of silver* to the chief priests and elders,
4 saying, **“I have sinned in betraying innocent blood.” **They said, “What is that to us? Look to it yourself.”
5 Flinging the money into the temple, he departed and went off and hanged himself.
6 The chief priests gathered up the money, but said, “It is not lawful to deposit this in the temple treasury, for it is the price of blood.”
7 After consultation, they used it to buy the potter’s field as a burial place for foreigners.
8 That is why that field even today is called the Field of Blood.

 

[Porknpie]

when ‘all is well that ends well’, where is the GUILT?

Christ’s own words need heeding… It was better for Judas that he was never born. It’s not clear that all ends well.

Judgement is left to God but we are called to preach the gospel, not only the message of Gods love for us, but the response he expects of us in return, to love him back, keeping the commandments…committing ourselves to follow him in a life toward holiness.

 

[cap76]

when ‘all is well that ends well’, where is the GUILT?

Judas’ guilt is in two places: within the confines of his conscience and upon the lips of God, the Judge of the universe.

Judgement is coming. And Judas’ end will not be well, especially since his end will only be the beginning of eternal torments in “his own place.”

Matthew 7: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’"

 

[cap76]

Scripture does not say Judas repented.

1. Acknowledging that you have sinned is only the first step … Judas did this.
2. Second step is to ask for forgiveness with a sincere heart … Judas did not do this.
3. 3rd step is to commit oneself to not sinning again … Judas did not do this either.

3 Then Judas, his betrayer, seeing that Jesus had been condemned, deeply regretted what he had done. He returned the thirty pieces of silver* to the chief priests

Very good and important points. Let me add that very early in his ministry with Jesus, it seemed that Judas’ fate was already sealed.

“Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the Twelve, was going to betray him.”

It is no wonder then that in Matthew’s account of Judas’ “repentance”, he did not use metanoeo, which means a genuine change of mind and will, but metamelomai, which merely connotes regret or sorrow. It seems that Matthew recognized that Judas had simply become aware of the wickedness of what he had done and wanted relief from the overwhelming guilt that now tormented every part of his being. Judas did not experience spiritual penitence but only emotional remorse.

He merely tried to salve his guilty conscience. True repentance involves making ammends. Judas made no effort to defend or rescue Jesus. He hated Jesus and let Him be tortured at the hands of those upon whom Jesus had pronounced woe after woe after woe.

 

[cap76]

Check out this powerful sermon:
sg-audiotreasures.org/hughes/wh_judasiscariot.mp3