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Charlemagne_II
Guest
Whad
**Thanks for your time and lack of attention. **
You’re most welcome!
**Thanks for your time and lack of attention. **
You’re most welcome!
Can justification of gay marriage lead to justification of incest?
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tonyrey
Guest
I reckon they would be Biblical philanderers - with regard to words not women…
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karebear92
Guest
One could certainly argue that AIDS is more prevalent among gay couples. Unless you are talking about children they could produce, but then what about gay brothers who wish to be married.
And then of course, what about polygamy?
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karebear92
Guest
One (cohabitation) is behavior and the other two are an institution, or affect the institution of marriage. And no it isn’t as divorce has always existed. It has not changed. The definition of it has not changed. There isn’t really a debate because what is there to debate? Not allowing people to get divorced? That i dangerous. Perhaps marriage laws should be stricter (not perhaps, they should), which would prevent divorce. Divorce is dependent on marriage, not the other way around. Maintaining and promoting healthy marriage is the best way to end divorce.
No it doesn’t because it redefines marriage for what marriage is. Of course it would protect “marriage” if gays were married, but that isn’t what marriage is and therefore it isn’t protected. Marriage isn’t simply an alternative to cohabitation out of wedlock. It is currently defined in most states as the union between one man and one women. Changing that definition changes the institution.Gays are a tiny minority, a side-show when marriage has been wounded by years of drive-thru matrimony and divorce. In that context it’s a non-starter trying to argue that the institution is in any way protected by forcing gays to live out of wedlock. The reverse sounds more reasonable - equal rights protect the institution more.
Freedom of religion and the freedom to act in conscience are absolutes.
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Cathy
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It seems more fruitful (pun intended) to speak of children’s rights with regard to marriage.
Life-long marriage between one man and one woman is the only institution that defends the rights of children to know and be known by their married mother and father. This benefits children and it benefits society, which benefits from children raised in a stable home.
What are the results in society of re-defining marriage? They are fatherless children and motherless children, children with multiple mothers and multiple fathers. My sons’ girlfriends can tell you about multiple fathers, because they had them. One girl has been hospitalized for depression and threatening to kill herself half a dozen times in the last two years. The other gave up her son for adoption because she was so emotionally distraught she was afraid she would hurt her baby. Of course I applaud her on the grounds she gave her baby life. Both these girls are smart and beautiful, but they grew up in traumatic, constantly changing circumstances. It will take years, and lots of prayers for healing to recover.
But both these cases show that marriage is already terribly damaged and has been for many years. Thanks to God for organizations such as Catholic Answers, which fight to defend and bolster marriage. God bless them!
Life-long marriage between one man and one woman is the only institution that defends the rights of children to know and be known by their married mother and father. This benefits children and it benefits society, which benefits from children raised in a stable home.
What are the results in society of re-defining marriage? They are fatherless children and motherless children, children with multiple mothers and multiple fathers. My sons’ girlfriends can tell you about multiple fathers, because they had them. One girl has been hospitalized for depression and threatening to kill herself half a dozen times in the last two years. The other gave up her son for adoption because she was so emotionally distraught she was afraid she would hurt her baby. Of course I applaud her on the grounds she gave her baby life. Both these girls are smart and beautiful, but they grew up in traumatic, constantly changing circumstances. It will take years, and lots of prayers for healing to recover.
But both these cases show that marriage is already terribly damaged and has been for many years. Thanks to God for organizations such as Catholic Answers, which fight to defend and bolster marriage. God bless them!
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theowarner
Guest
Of course, it would it entirely depend upon the specifics of the “justification of gay marriage.” It is possible that a justification for gay marriage would not apply to a justification of incest.
Incest is one of these icky subjects which invariably surround the issue of gay marriage. Most proponents of gay marriage will probably find themselves defending incest, which is to say, defending the idea that adult consent is outside civil prohibition and probably outside ethical scrutiny.
Incest is one of these icky subjects which invariably surround the issue of gay marriage. Most proponents of gay marriage will probably find themselves defending incest, which is to say, defending the idea that adult consent is outside civil prohibition and probably outside ethical scrutiny.
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theowarner
Guest
I think it’s pleasant to assume that traditional mother/father families are the ideal structure of a family, but I frankly can’t understand how this can be harmonized with the obvious fact that non-traditional family structures function just as well. Not only are homosexual couples capable of raising children well, but so can single parents and even family structures like, for example, a child raised by an older sibling.
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Poof
Guest
How about this, the reasoning that promotes gay marriage can’t be used to promote incest and others because gay marriage doesn’t harm anyone?
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theowarner
Guest
Well… for the sake of being clear about this, incest among adults doesn’t hurt anyone necessarily (although, it does seem like it ordinarily would). Certainly, incest in which a child is involved causes a great deal of hurt – and more so than were the offending individual unrelated.
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Cathy
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The fact is that traditional mother/father families produce healthier children in terms of physical, emotional and spiritual health.
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Cathy
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opposingviews.com/i/kids-better-off-living-with-biological-parents-who-worship
Submitted by FRC on Dec 16, 2008
Washington D.C. - A new study released today by Family Research Council’s Mapping America Project finds that children have fewer problems at school and home when they live with both biological parents and frequently attend religious services. Drs. Nicholas Zill and Philip Fletcher co-authored the new study which analyzes data from the National Survey of Children’s Health.
Among their remarkable findings: children in this group are five times less likely to repeat a grade, less likely to have behavior problems at home and school, and are more likely to be cooperative and understanding of others’ feelings. Parents of these children report less stress, healthier parent-child relationships, and fewer concerns about their children’s achievement. These differences hold up even after controlling for family income and poverty, low parent education levels, and race and ethnicity.
Submitted by FRC on Dec 16, 2008
Washington D.C. - A new study released today by Family Research Council’s Mapping America Project finds that children have fewer problems at school and home when they live with both biological parents and frequently attend religious services. Drs. Nicholas Zill and Philip Fletcher co-authored the new study which analyzes data from the National Survey of Children’s Health.
Among their remarkable findings: children in this group are five times less likely to repeat a grade, less likely to have behavior problems at home and school, and are more likely to be cooperative and understanding of others’ feelings. Parents of these children report less stress, healthier parent-child relationships, and fewer concerns about their children’s achievement. These differences hold up even after controlling for family income and poverty, low parent education levels, and race and ethnicity.
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theowarner
Guest
The thing doesn’t speak for itself. That observable fact is a mere datum. Its implications are what we need to consider.
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Cathy
Guest
“…Not only is cohabitation less stable, it is more dangerous for children. Federal data shows
that children are at least three times more likely to be physically, sexually, or emotionally
abused in cohabiting households, compared to children in intact, biological married
parent homes. They are also significantly more likely to experience delinquency, drug
use, and school failure.
Based on the new data now available, the authors of Why Marriage Matters offer three
conclusions regarding marriage and families in America today:
The intact, biological, married family remains the Gold Standard for family life in
the United States. Children are most likely to thrive, economically, socially, and
psychologically, in this family form…”
americanvalues.org/pr/20110816.pdf
that children are at least three times more likely to be physically, sexually, or emotionally
abused in cohabiting households, compared to children in intact, biological married
parent homes. They are also significantly more likely to experience delinquency, drug
use, and school failure.
Based on the new data now available, the authors of Why Marriage Matters offer three
conclusions regarding marriage and families in America today:
The intact, biological, married family remains the Gold Standard for family life in
the United States. Children are most likely to thrive, economically, socially, and
psychologically, in this family form…”
americanvalues.org/pr/20110816.pdf
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theowarner
Guest
You quote things very well.
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Biblepoe
Guest
Most people with AIDS are straight, but that doesn’t matter anyways because AIDS doesn’t compare to the health problem with incest since incest causes the passing of genetic disorders to children, who are definitely not consenting participants.
For the same reasons why we don’t allow straight polygamous marriages (although it is not a violation of the law for people to have a polygamous relationship, but such marriages aren’t permitted).
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tskrobacz
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See: inclusiveorthodoxy.org/ - immoral or abusive sexual encounters are not the same as committed, loving relationships.
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inocente
Guest
Jefferson’s horror show would mutilate far more people than Stalin and Hitler combined, insanity beyond madness beyond lunacy.
Then why not spend time fighting that instead of discussing the mutilation of millions of law abiding taxpayers who haven’t done anything wrong?
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inocente
Guest
I thought Catholics are not allowed to get divorced.
It doesn’t change it, just as lowering the age of majority wouldn’t change it, both simply extend the availability of marriage.
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inocente
Guest
And many children now grow up in a single parent family.
There’s evidence that where it’s allowed, after trying and failing to place “difficult” children with straight couples, adoption agencies will home them with gay couples, who are given less choice.
If those children are not to grow up in an institution, a loving gay home is a far better alternative, but because the children were “difficult” before being homed, they may remain emotionally more traumatized due to earlier events in their lives.
Existing statistics on the results of gay adoption may therefore be skewed, but if your point is that many straight adults no longer even try to form lifelong relationships, and either go through repeated cohabitations or divorces, and this harms their children, then extending marriage and adoption rights to gays won’t do any harm.
If interested, UNICEF used objective and subjective measures to produce this report on child well-being in rich countries. Note that the US and UK are bottom in the summary league table on page 2, neither can be relaxed with their status quo.
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karebear92
Guest
First, let’s use first world country statistics. Second, that is a misleading statistic, so rather than use total percentages of people infected, let’s look at the prevalence among the gay community compared to that of the straight community. Obviously 90-98 percent of a community will most likely have higher numbers than the 10-2 percent, but the rate of infection should be the same, if not slightly higher.
Or just look here.
I didn’t mean gay polygamy; I simply meant polygamy (polyandry etc.). For what reason do we not allow polygamous marriage? (it is also not a violation of the law to have a gay relationship, though marriage is not permitted).
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