Can Man Be More Merciful than G-d?

[meltzerboy]

The immediate answer is, of course, no. But let me explain what I mean. There are certain things that many of us, if we had the power and ability, would probably not do, such as put anyone (almost) in Hell, especially for eternity, or not allow unbaptized, innocent children or blameless animals go to Heaven (the latter topic inspired by a current thread). This can also be seen in less weighty issues here on Earth, whenever Man exercises mercy, compassion, kindness, and love toward his friend or foe. The fact of the matter is that G-d behaves differently from the way we might, by putting people in Hell and, perhaps, not allowing animals entrance to Heaven, among many other things. Now, I’m aware of some of the responses: G-d has a greater eternal plan, which we simply cannot totally fathom; G-d does not want us to spend eternity in Hell and awaits our repentance up to our dying breath; it is we who ultimately choose Hell by persisting in our immoral behavior; G-d knows we would not be happy in Heaven in His glorious presence due to our unrepentant sinful nature; G-d is in charge, not us; G-d’s justice and mercy are not separate entities but intertwined; G-d is infinitely merciful in giving us life and the free will to choose Heaven or Hell; G-d Himself, in the person of Jesus, suffered greater than we ever will for our redemption; and so forth. Nonetheless, it is still troubling to me, that something which inflicts such pain and suffering that I would not inflict by reason of the mercy and love that G-d gave me, He might do. I can even accept suffering on Earth as a sign of redemption and as part of G-d’s grand design; but ETERNAL (maybe not experienced as such, however) damnation in Hell from a just and merciful G-d? If I wouldn’t allow that–perhaps not even to a man like Hitler–how could G-d?

 

[LilyM]

A human being who would act differently than God in a particular situation in the name of so-called ‘mercy’ is not truly being merciful, but something else - perhaps overly soft or weak. In the same way a person who would act differently than God in a particular situation in the name of being ‘loving’ or ‘fair’ or ‘just’ or anything else is not truly being loving, just or fair, but something else - selfish, overly permissive or something.

We humans have a partial and hence flawed comprehension of the very concepts of mercy, love, fairness, justice and the like. Thus if our standards differ from God’s in any given instance, the only thing to do is realise that it is our understanding that falls short, and never His mercy, love, fairness or justice.

Remember the scene from the movie ‘Gladiator’ where the mad Emperor Commodus basically threatens the lives of his sister and her child, and hints that he wants to incestuously father a child of his own upon her, and then ends up literally screaming ‘am I not merciful’? at her. All the more chilling because we can see that he honestly believes his own demented ravings.

In a much less dramatic way we’re all somewhat blind like Commodus, and fail at times to see our so-called ‘mercy’, ‘love’ ‘justice’ and so on for the pale imitations (or even their exact opposites) that they sometimes truly are.

 

[meltzerboy]

A human being who would act differently than God in a particular situation in the name of so-called ‘mercy’ is not truly being merciful, but something else - perhaps overly soft or weak. In the same way a person who would act differently than God in a particular situation in the name of being ‘loving’ or ‘fair’ or ‘just’ or anything else is not truly being loving, just or fair, but something else - selfish, overly permissive or something.

We humans have a partial and hence flawed comprehension of the very concepts of mercy, love, fairness, justice and the like. Thus if our standards differ from God’s in any given instance, the only thing to do is realise that it is our understanding that falls short, and never His mercy, love, fairness or justice.

Remember the scene from the movie ‘Gladiator’ where the mad Emperor Commodus basically threatens the lives of his sister and her child, and hints that he wants to incestuously father a child of his own upon her, and then ends up literally screaming ‘am I not merciful’? at her. All the more chilling because we can see that he honestly believes his own demented ravings.

In a much less dramatic way we’re all somewhat blind like Commodus, and fail at times to see our so-called ‘mercy’, ‘love’ ‘justice’ and so on for the pale imitations (or even their exact opposites) that they sometimes truly are.

Thank you, Lily, for this great explanation!

 

[Robertanthony]

The immediate answer is, of course, no. But let me explain what I mean. There are certain things that many of us, if we had the power and ability, would probably not do, such as put anyone (almost) in Hell, especially for eternity, or not allow unbaptized, innocent children or blameless animals go to Heaven (the latter topic inspired by a current thread). This can also be seen in less weighty issues here on Earth, whenever Man exercises mercy, compassion, kindness, and love toward his friend or foe. The fact of the matter is that G-d behaves differently from the way we might, by putting people in Hell and, perhaps, not allowing animals entrance to Heaven, among many other things. Now, I’m aware of some of the responses: G-d has a greater eternal plan, which we simply cannot totally fathom; G-d does not want us to spend eternity in Hell and awaits our repentance up to our dying breath; it is we who ultimately choose Hell by persisting in our immoral behavior; G-d knows we would not be happy in Heaven in His glorious presence due to our unrepentant sinful nature; G-d is in charge, not us; G-d’s justice and mercy are not separate entities but intertwined; G-d is infinitely merciful in giving us life and the free will to choose Heaven or Hell; G-d Himself, in the person of Jesus, suffered greater than we ever will for our redemption; and so forth. Nonetheless, it is still troubling to me, that something which inflicts such pain and suffering that I would not inflict by reason of the mercy and love that G-d gave me, He might do. I can even accept suffering on Earth as a sign of redemption and as part of G-d’s grand design; but ETERNAL (maybe not experienced as such, however) damnation in Hell from a just and merciful G-d? If I wouldn’t allow that–perhaps not even to a man like Hitler–how could G-d?

Hi meltzerboy, someone’s personality always comes through, at least partly, in one’s posts, and I have to say I wish everyone here was like you in openness and humility, among other things.

You’re not the 1st one that I hear state the part that I’ve emboldened because I tend to disagree with it. I think it’s an attempt to sugar-coat the sometimes hard-to-swallow pill that some will be cast out/left out of heaven for eternity. I’m not very good at quoting scriptures, but in Revelation, I think it’s pretty clear that some will be denied entrance into heaven although they’re figuratively knocking on the door, therefore wishing to be there. Lucifer didn’t gladly leave heaven because he felt out of sorts there, but because he was driven out of it.

I think most people with a heart struggle with the idea of unending misery and torment for the damned souls. I don’t question that some won’t just be worthy to be in God’s presence forever, but must there be a total dichotomy: perfect bliss, joy beyond one’s wildest imagination OR utter pain, misery, despair with no relief whatsoever?

 

[meltzerboy]

Hi meltzerboy, someone’s personality always comes through, at least partly, in one’s posts, and I have to say I wish everyone here was like you in openness and humility, among other things.

You’re not the 1st one that I hear state the part that I’ve emboldened because I tend to disagree with it. I think it’s an attempt to sugar-coat the sometimes hard-to-swallow pill that some will be cast out/left out of heaven for eternity. I’m not very good at quoting scriptures, but in Revelation, I think it’s pretty clear that some will be denied entrance into heaven although they’re figuratively knocking on the door, therefore wishing to be there. Lucifer didn’t gladly leave heaven because he felt out of sorts there, but because he was driven out of it.

I think most people with a heart struggle with the idea of unending misery and torment for the damned souls. I don’t question that some won’t just be worthy to be in God’s presence forever, but must there be a total dichotomy: perfect bliss, joy beyond one’s wildest imagination OR utter pain, misery, despair with no relief whatsoever?

Thanks so much for such a moving compliment, Robertanthony. I guess a kind of “tough love,” similar to parents’ disciplining of their children, is what G-d reveals to us–mainly for our own benefit–when we turn against Him, but always in conjunction with His great patience and mercy. Still, I see that you, like I, find the absolute dichotomy of eternal bliss and eternal damnation difficult to fathom in its entirety. If we could totally understand it, we would have the mind of G-d.

 

[smichhertz]

The immediate answer is, of course, no.

Correct, we cannot be more merciful than God.

There are certain things that many of us, if we had the power and ability, would probably not do, such as put anyone (almost) in Hell, especially for eternity, or not allow unbaptized, innocent children or blameless animals go to Heaven (the latter topic inspired by a current thread).

It would be UNMERCIFUL to send a soul to Heaven that had chosen Hell, or to send a soul to Heaven that had not obtained eternal salvation. Hell is a testament to God’s mercy.

Hope that helps!

 

[DPMartin]

The immediate answer is, of course, no. But let me explain what I mean. There are certain things that many of us, if we had the power and ability, would probably not do, such as put anyone (almost) in Hell, especially for eternity, or not allow unbaptized, innocent children or blameless animals go to Heaven (the latter topic inspired by a current thread). This can also be seen in less weighty issues here on Earth, whenever Man exercises mercy, compassion, kindness, and love toward his friend or foe. The fact of the matter is that G-d behaves differently from the way we might, by putting people in Hell and, perhaps, not allowing animals entrance to Heaven, among many other things. Now, I’m aware of some of the responses: G-d has a greater eternal plan, which we simply cannot totally fathom; G-d does not want us to spend eternity in Hell and awaits our repentance up to our dying breath; it is we who ultimately choose Hell by persisting in our immoral behavior; G-d knows we would not be happy in Heaven in His glorious presence due to our unrepentant sinful nature; G-d is in charge, not us; G-d’s justice and mercy are not separate entities but intertwined; G-d is infinitely merciful in giving us life and the free will to choose Heaven or Hell; G-d Himself, in the person of Jesus, suffered greater than we ever will for our redemption; and so forth. Nonetheless, it is still troubling to me, that something which inflicts such pain and suffering that I would not inflict by reason of the mercy and love that G-d gave me, He might do. I can even accept suffering on Earth as a sign of redemption and as part of G-d’s grand design; but ETERNAL (maybe not experienced as such, however) damnation in Hell from a just and merciful G-d? If I wouldn’t allow that–perhaps not even to a man like Hitler–how could G-d?

meltzerboy

Did Moses seek the Mercy of Lord his God, for the Children of Israel? Then where did the mercy come from? Moses, or God. But yet the Lord God, didn’t seem to show Mercy until it was requested of Him. Therefore it was understood, that Mercy for Life is only of the Lord God.

Even the famous decision of Solomon with the two women and the child, the Wisdom of God was shown, when the request for Mercy for the child was revealed. Then the child was spared, and left into the hands who sot Mercy for the child’s life.

 

[4Horsemen]

. . . in Revelation, I think it’s pretty clear that some will be denied entrance into heaven although they’re figuratively knocking on the door, therefore wishing to be there. Lucifer didn’t gladly leave heaven because he felt out of sorts there, but because he was driven out of it.

In Revelation 3:20, it is Jesus who is knocking at the door.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Jesus tries to get our attention all of our lives. Many ignore the signs He gives us because they are too engrossed with the things of this world. They may not be truly evil, but they can reject Christ whether deliberately or not. However, as I’ve read in some of the saints and mystics’ journals, it is said that these people refuse every attempt by almighty God to accept the death of His Son as expiation for their sins.

Some people, such as children, mentally incapable, and those who do not know Christ but try to live their lives as best as they know how, will be given entrance into Heaven.

Nonbelievers Too Can Be Saved, Says Pope

Refers to St. Augustine’s Commentary on Psalm 136(137)

VATICAN CITY, NOV. 30, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI.
The Pope made this affirmation today at the general audience, commenting on a meditation written by St. Augustine (354-430).

See: Pope Benedict XVI’s general audience, Nov. 30 2005.

I think most people with a heart struggle with the idea of unending misery and torment for the damned souls. I don’t question that some won’t just be worthy to be in God’s presence forever, but must there be a total dichotomy: perfect bliss, joy beyond one’s wildest imagination OR utter pain, misery, despair with no relief whatsoever?

After purgation (Purgatory), there will only exist Heaven and Hell. I struggle also with the idea of the eternity of Hell, especially since I have relatives and friends who refuse to even listen to my remarks about salvation through Christ.

I have a book by Josepha Menendez, a holy nun who had to enter Hell and hear the horrible blasphemies and endure the stench and ugliness in reparation for various sins of persons (especially religious) whom it was her destiny to save. (It seems wierd, but, well, read the book!)

 

[wcknight]

I would think that the mercy of God would be granted to all those who desire to have His mercy.

I doubt that folks who are truly evil, who have chosen evil as a way of life right up until the moment of death, would even want to have God’s mercy.

Someone such as Hitler believe that they are God, that they control their own destiny or the destiny of others. IF you reject God in this life chances are you will reject God in the next. God will grant you the destiny that you wish for.

Can you imagine a violent man of action like Hilter wishing to live out all eternity in a peaceful realm like Heaven ??? he would be bored to tears.