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Scientiphic
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They are made righteous by virtue of their faith.
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Gamera
Guest
I agree with God. I disagree with your interpretation of Psalm 14 because it isolates one verse (verse 3) and ignores the balance of the Psalm, which contrasts the “evildoers” (of whom it says “there is none that does good, no, not one,” with God’s people (whom it calls “righteous”). Do you contend that verse 3 is referring to God’s people? Read it straight through.
“They have all gone astray, they are all alike corrupt, there is none that does good, no, not one. Have they no knowledge, all the evildoers who eat up my people as they eat bread, and do not call upon the Lord? There they shall be in great terror, for God is with the generation of the righteous.” Psalm 14:3-5.
You keep saying the first group, of whom God says “none … does good,” refers to the whole human race. But that isn’t what the Psalm says at all. God speaks of the “evildoers” (of whom there is none that does good, no, not one), and contrasts them with “my people,” who are “righteous.”
By isolating verse 3, you lose the context which identifies the group is of whom “There is none that does good, no, not one.” Psalm 14 says the group in question is “evildoers,” not all humanity.
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Gamera
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Okay, good. You agree with the Catholic position on this point.
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Scientiphic
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But I’m sure that’s not we’re disagreeing on. What we disagree on is whether Mary was specially made sinless. She was made righteous because of her faith, but in no way does it imply that she had no sin.
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Scientiphic
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Galatians 3:11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”
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Gamera
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Again you agree with the Catholic position. Nobody can be justified by the Law.
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Scientiphic
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Again, that is not our point of disagreement.
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placido
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Scientiphic, in an attempt to oppose Catholicism, you ended up confusing yourself beyond rehabilitation. Look at this:
Post #203
Post #203
Post #233:
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jmcrae
Guest
Wow.
Isn’t that pretty close to the heresy of Nestorianism? (Which is that Jesus was two persons: a human being, and God - and that Mary gave birth only to the human being, and then God “possessed” it in much the same way that a demon might possess someone. Is God like a demon?)
Did God take away the life of a normal boy, by possessing him, and using his body as a “man costume”?
I think that would be a pretty horrifying God to believe in, myself.
So, being someone’s mother is a “job” like being a plumber?
She actually probably would receive some kind of compensation or honour for doing this. I doubt that the President would allow people in his presence to stomp her in the face and grind her down, or insult her, or say that she is “just like anyone else.” Obviously, after all, even if she is “only” a plumber, she has some stand-out quality that attracted the President’s attention - they don’t just randomly pick people off the street to work with the President, you know.
What is the relevance, here? A Queen is one of two things; either a female King (as in the case of Queen Elizabeth II), or the wife or mother of a King (as in the case of Queen Mary (aka Queen Mother), Elizabeth II’s mother).
Just so we’re clear, in Catholicism, Mary is not considered to be a female King; rather, she is considered to be the mother of a King.
In Davidic times, and in the time of Jesus, it was typically the King’s mother who was crowned Queen. That’s why when we say that Jesus is King, we show that we aren’t just blowing smoke or speaking flattery, by saying that Mary, his mother, is His Queen - this shows that His Kingship is for real; not just something we say to flatter Him.
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Scientiphic
Guest
Placido you should really read/re-read this thread before coming this flawed conclusion of yours.
- God is the alpha & omega. Beginning & End, how can such a being even have a mother? Mary is merely a vessel used by God for His entry into Mankind.
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Gamera
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It isn’t a “flawed conclusion.” You said in Post 203 that Mary wasn’t Jesus’ mother. You said in Post 233 that Mary was Jesus’ mother. God is not the author of confusion.
No inconsistency here. God is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. During the course of history, He became man, born of a virgin. God existed before He became a human, before he was conceived, before He spent nine months in Mary’s womb, before He was born from her womb. No inconsistency there at all.
Was my mother just a vessel for my entry into mankind? Charming. I’ll be sure to write that on my next mother’s day card.
And Catholics call Mary a servant of God.
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Gamera
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I’ve seen no difference between Scientiphic’s position and that of Nestorianism.
Wow.
Isn’t that pretty close to the heresy of Nestorianism? (Which is that Jesus was two persons: a human being, and God - and that Mary gave birth only to the human being, and then God “possessed” it in much the same way that a demon might possess someone. Is God like a demon?)
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Gamera
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So, Scientiphic, please tell us your final answer. Is Mary the mother of Jesus? And isn’t Jesus the Alpha and the Omega? “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God,” John 1:1. But she’s still Jesus’ mother, even though Jesus existed before Mary existed, right?
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placido
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Me think Scientiphic is a confused fellow who doesn’t know the difference between being a mother and being the creator. On the other hand he is insinuating that women are mere vessels used by men to give birth to men’s children. Me think that is degrading in a sense.
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placido
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Ah! If you make confused statements you sould as well expect flawed conclusions.
You said “nobody can deny that Jesus was born”;
You said “Mary is not the mother of Jesus”, and
You said “Mary is the mother of Jesus”.
Those are the reasons for my “flawed conclusions”.
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Scientiphic
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Okay, why don’t you educate us on the difference between a Mother of the Creator vs Creator of the Creator.
And which is Mary?
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placido
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You mean Jesus entered in Mary’s womb weighting 2,5 kg and, after nine months, came out weighting 2,5 kg and in the process Mary played no role that is normally required of a mother – no sucking, no motherly care nothing – just a vessel.
Scientifiphic, let me tell you one think: you are insulting not only the Virgin Mary but all women.
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Scientiphic
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Why aren’t you answering me on the difference between Mother of Creator vs Creator of Creator??? :hammering:
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placido
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Mary is a mother not a creator. Or, do you consider your parents as your creators? … but we are dangerously moving out of topic!
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Scientiphic
Guest
So, mary did not create the creator, but she gave BIRTH to the creator? So okay, where did the creator come from?
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