Can Mary be Sinless and Intercede for you?

[SimonArizona]

It’s an old and tired argument. There’s no more disunity in Protestantism than there is in Catholicism. There’s the EOC, the RCC, the Oriental Orthodox churches, several orders within Catholicism who disagree with each other on core issues, etc.

Within the protestant community there are many denominations yes, but we recognize each others valid standing before God. We have brotherly ecumenical relations with each other. That’s more than sufficient with regard to unity. That line of reasoning is wholly unpersuasive.

I don’t think thats true and I’ll tell you why. While Eastern Orthodox is separated it is so strikingly similar to the RCC that Pope John Paul said God has revealed the one Truth to us both, just from two different angles. A couple times they were very close to unity with the RCC. Now the Protestant Fissiparousness is unlike any falling apart in any religion ever. Muslims have two or three schisms, Christianity until 1500’s had 2.

Protestantism is a mess, can you deny this? The reason why they are 30,000 is because they fundamentally disagree with each other about what the Bible teaches.

Now again, why is your denomination, or rather, interpretation the truth standing tall above all these?

 

[sola_scriptura]

I don’t think thats true and I’ll tell you why. While Eastern Orthodox is separated it is so strikingly similar to the RCC that Pope John Paul said God has revealed the one Truth to us both, just from two different angles. A couple times they were very close to unity with the RCC. Now the Protestant Fissiparousness is unlike any falling apart in any religion ever. Muslims have two or three schisms, Christianity until 1500’s had 2.

Protestantism is a mess, can you deny this? The reason why they are 30,000 is because they fundamentally disagree with each other about what the Bible teaches.

Now again, why is your denomination, or rather, interpretation the truth standing tall above all these?

Well our mess is evangelizing to the world and is well over a billion strong and growing every day. Our mess has converted 400 million Africans, about half of Brazil (and the rest of Latin America will be joining them soon), the Chinese, Koreans, and we’ve only begun.

It won’t be long before our mess has the whole world professing Christ risen! We might be a mess – but we’re God’s mess. Praise God. Don’t worry, you’re mess is God’s mess too. The whole world is God’s mess if you want to call it that. He doesn’t mind, He knows mankind is a mess.

 

[SimonArizona]

not the same thing. In the case of the protoevangelium it has been shown that the author could not have been James, which is not the case with the canonical books. I hope you don’t mind me writing in with your text. This is very much so the case with the Canon of Scripture. This is another topic all together, but there is strong speculation that, for example, Simon Peter didn’t write 1 and 2 Peter. And that St. Paul had someone write while he spoke, etc. All in all, its still inspired, how do we know? good question: how do we know which books are inspired or not? Because the Catholic Church told you they are Furthermore, the author claimed to be James, which means he or she was untruthful. Again, there’s a reason why your church has excluded this book from canon. I thought I explained that. No serious Catholic theologian would rely on this book for any purpose, well, its not a book about theology, but a documentary on St. Mary’s life. except to say someone out there in the second century thought this to be true (but of course they could have just as easily manufactured the story since we already know they lied about their identity). *How *do we know that?

Indeed – but of course that’s a red herring in this case.

so what’s the point?

 

[SimonArizona]

Well our mess is evangelizing to the world and is well over a billion strong and growing every day. Our mess has converted 400 million Africans, about half of Brazil (and the rest of Latin America will be joining them soon), the Chinese, Koreans, and we’ve only begun.

It won’t be long before our mess has the whole world professing Christ risen! We might be a mess – but we’re God’s mess. Praise God. Don’t worry, you’re mess is God’s mess too. The whole world is God’s mess if you want to call it that. He doesn’t mind, He knows mankind is a mess.

I strongly agree. Remember who put a Church on every shore, named endless cities after Saints. The Church has not failed in Her Christ-given mission to make disciples of all nations.

It’s a hard question to answer huh? Why yours is the Truth. I, as an anti-Catholic, and damn good one, would tell my dad while attacking the Church, “I’m not going to believe any man, but only what the bible says!” and he changed my entire life with a simple response “whose interpretaton of the bible are you following son?”

 

[Holly3278]

Infants don’t go around sinning, but they have the original sin. That’s why Jesus came.

By the way, there’s no such word as Trinity in the bible. So, I don’t know how you arrive at the conclusion that my theology is false.

On the CONTRARY, the Bible NEVER said Mary has no sin. How did YOU arrive at the conclusion that she is sinless?

Looks like you are the one having the false theology.

When there’s no mention of the word Trinity, you put in the word Trinity, when there’s mention that all has sinned, you remove it and say that not all has sinned.

Does ‘No, you shall NOT surely die’ sound familiar to you?

.

I want to answer your objection which says that the word Trinity is not found in the Bible. Well, of course it is not found in the Bible. However, the Trinity is clearly a Biblical idea as I will show you with some verses from the Bible:

Matthew 28:19 RSV Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

There you go. The Trinity is in the Bible right here where Jesus tells His disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. As you can see, all three members of the Trinity are right there in one verse.

Luke 3:21 RSV Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heaven was opened,
Luke 3:22 RSV and the Holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form, as a dove, and a voice came from heaven, “Thou art my beloved Son; with thee I am well pleased.”

Again, the Trinity is present. First there was Jesus who is the Son of God, then there was the Holy Spirit descending on him as a dove, and finally there was the voice of the Father saying that He was well pleased with His Son.

John 10:30 RSV I and the Father are one."

Here we see that God the Father and God the Son (and God the Holy Spirit which is not mentioned here) are one God.

I would also recommend that you read this link which clearly shows that the early Christians believed in the Trinity:

catholic.com/library/Trinity.asp

 

[sola_scriptura]

I strongly agree. Remember who put a Church on every shore, named endless cities after Saints. The Church has not failed in Her Christ-given mission to make disciples of all nations.

It’s a hard question to answer huh? Why yours is the Truth. I, as an anti-Catholic, and damn good one, would tell my dad while attacking the Church, “I’m not going to believe any man, but only what the bible says!” and he changed my entire life with a simple response “whose interpretaton of the bible are you following son?”

Well since I’m not anti-Catholic (in my opinion – obviously the RCC would probably say any non-Catholic is anti-Catholic & of course I’ll continue not to care what they say) I guess this really doesn’t apply to me. Look if someone likes being Catholic then be Catholic and don’t be wishy washy about it (not that I’m saying you are – I’m just saying generally speaking). I’m surely not gonna stop you nor would I want to.

I’m a very happy Presbyterian & as long as one professes Christ risen I don’t really care if they’re wrong about Mary or the saints (and I don’t think God will whip you too much over the matter). As far as whose interpretations I follow. The Holy Spirit dwells inside of me and God Himself works in me both to will and to do. Most of the bible requires no interpretation, it’s clear as day if you have ears that can hear and eyes that can see. Sadly, most do not, as they were so destined.

 

[SimonArizona]

On the CONTRARY, the Bible NEVER said Mary has no sin. How did YOU arrive at the conclusion that she is sinless?

.

Huh? It doesn’t matter if its in the Bible or not, because the Bible is NOT the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth, the Church is, and THAT is in the Bible. And how would you know if your interpretaton of the Bible is accurate or not? How do you know you alone are right and the other Protestants are wrong? How can anyone know without the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth?

We arrive and such conclusion because while it isn’t in the canon that the RCC assembled, it was a belief held by Early Church Fathers and Christians and also some Reforming Fathers.:bigyikes:

One more question, are all Protestants Predestined? if not, how do you know which ones are and which ones are not?

 

[SimonArizona]

Well since I’m not anti-Catholic (-]in my opinion – obviously the RCC would probably say any non-Catholic is anti-Catholic & of course I’ll continue not to care what they say/-]) No, no. I guess this really doesn’t apply to me. Look if someone likes being Catholic then be Catholic. I’m surely not gonna stop you nor would I want to. I’m not Catholic because I like it, although I do, but because** I believe it**.
I’m a very happy Presbyterian. As far as whose interpretations I follow. The Holy Spirit dwells inside of me and God Himself works in me both to will and to do. I believe that. Most of the bible requires no interpretation, it’s clear as day if you have ears that can hear and eyes that can see. Sadly, most do not, as they were so destined.

Well each sect believes it is but if it was clear as day, we wouldn’t see such fundamental disagreements between Christians.

 

[sola_scriptura]

Huh? It doesn’t matter if its in the Bible or not, because the Bible is NOT the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth, the Church is, and THAT is in the Bible. And how would you know if your interpretaton of the Bible is accurate or not? How do you know you alone are right and the other Protestants are wrong? How can anyone know without the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth?

We arrive and such conclusion because while it isn’t in the canon that the RCC assembled, it was a belief held by Early Church Fathers and Christians and also some Reforming Fathers.:bigyikes:

One more question, are all Protestants Predestined? if not, how do you know which ones are and which ones are not?

You know in 1 Tim 3 (where Paul calls the church the pillar and foundation of truth) he also states Pastors (or priests) must be husbands of just one wife? So which church exactly was Paul referring to? I guess it wasn’t the Roman church since they can’t marry.

As far as predestination, that is purely scripture.

just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will (Ephesians 1:4-5).

*For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren (Romans 8:29).

Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed (Acts 13:48).

To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out (John 10:3).

But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you (John 10:26).*

So how do we know we are His sheep? No mystery, just as Jesus said – because we believe. Very simple, the same way you should know you’re one of His sheep, because God said so.

As far as any notions that God did not create the wicked for destruction:

*The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil (Proverbs 16:4).

What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction (Romans 9:22).*

As far as the erroneous idea that works can save:

*So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy (Romans 9:16).

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).*

For any who think you chose God and He doesn’t choose you:

*Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens (Romans 9:18).

But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? (Romans 9:20-21).*

Anyone who thinks that anything can separate us (God’s elect) from the love of God:

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:38-39).

If you think that you can make yourself righteous and it’s not God:

"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances (Ezekiel 36:27).

This is divine providence 101. But perhaps some of you might need someone to read these simple passages to you and interpret them for you?

*But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people to be his very own and to proclaim the wonderful deeds of the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light (1 Peter 2:9).

and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen (Revelation 1:6).*

We protestants refer to this as the priesthood of all believers; and it is very biblical. IMO any theological doctrine not firmly grounded in the sound and Godly doctrine of the absolute power and sovereign providence of God and His eternal decree of predestination is a weak system. Any Christian who lacks the ability to intuitively understand the word of God is as John Wesley would call the “almost Christian” with a faith on shaky ground.

Like when the wind blew and Peter became frightened while he was walking on water. Why do you think we are told that we can walk through the valley of the shadow of death and fear no evil?

Is it because we are capable of anything ourselves? No, because God will hold us in His divine hand and will cause His elect to endure.

 

[SimonArizona]

You know in 1 Tim 3 (where Paul calls the church the pillar and foundation of truth) he also states Pastors (or priests) must be husbands of just one wife? So which church exactly was Paul referring to? I guess it wasn’t the Roman church since they can’t marry. Well, I don’t believe Paul was saying they must marry, I believe he was saying only one wife. Paul also said that not to marry is better so he who is unmarried may care how to please the Lord. Paul also said he wished all men were as he is, unmarried. Chasity isn’t a burden, but those who are given the grace welcome it. They have a closeness with the Lord that married people don’t have. If you took a poll, I doubt the priests would wish for marriage.

As far as predestination, that is purely scripture.

just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will (Ephesians 1:4-5).

*For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren (Romans 8:29).

Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed (Acts 13:48).

To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out (John 10:3).

But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you (John 10:26).*

So how do we know we are His sheep? No mystery, just as Jesus said – because we believe. Very simple, the same way you should know you’re one of His sheep, because God said so.

My question is how do you know who is predestined and who is not? I’m not arguing against the notion.

we’ll do works in a minute if you wish.

 

[SimonArizona]

As far as the erroneous idea that works can save:

*So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy (Romans 9:16). God’s mercy enables us to stand.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).* keep reading…For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works… that we should walk in them. Catholics don’t teach works save. Works done In Christ, by His grace, play an important role in our sanctification by making us holy as we “work-out our salvation with fear and trembling”…those who are “being made holy” so while Salvation is an absolutely unmerited, free gift of God, made possible by our Redeemer and His work on the Cross for us, our transformation of character into being holy is indeed necessary for salvation, for nothing unclean shall enter heaven-Revelations

If you think that you can make yourself righteous and it’s not God:

"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances (Ezekiel 36:27). **It is God who enables us to work as he pre-ordained we do just that. Faith without works is dead.**QUOTE]

 

[Cinette]

I have just come across this thread and here is my :twocents:

I am not sinless and I can intercede for you.

Tom, Richard and Harry who are Christians can intercede for you.

So why can’t Mary, the Mother of Our Lord intercede for you?

Huh?

 

[sola_scriptura]

My question is how do you know who is predestined and who is not? I’m not arguing against the notion.

we’ll do works in a minute if you wish.

Generally Calvinists will not say we can know who is predestined and who is not – however, I think we can know:

Jesus said only His sheep are even capable of believing. Therefore, if we believe we know we’re His sheep. Calvinists will say that those who profess faith but then slip away never had faith to begin with, however, I think that’s an oversimplification.

For instance, all who profess Christ have an indwelling of the Holy Spirit (see 1 Corinthians 12:3). However, if they lose faith or cease to believe they will be saved it is only because of a lack of knowledge on their part. Paul closes 1 Cor. 12 by saying:

And now I will show you the most excellent way.

When we read Paul his words really are striking, because the sort of faith he preaches (and really all the apostles do the same, though not as forcefully as Paul) is really about trusting God not trusting ourselves.

We will sin because we have a sinful nature. Paul’s discourse in Romans 7 drives this point home very clearly:

For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing . . . What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! (Romans 7:20, 24-25).

We need to trust God will never break His promises to us, because God does not lie. Fear and trembling is often misunderstood by many Christians, take for instance:

In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love (1 John 4:17-18).

Anyway I gotta get going …

 

[Good_Fella]

I want to answer your objection which says that the word Trinity is not found in the Bible. Well, of course it is not found in the Bible. However, the Trinity is clearly a Biblical idea as I will show you with some verses from the Bible:

Matthew 28:19 RSV Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

There you go. The Trinity is in the Bible right here where Jesus tells His disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. As you can see, all three members of the Trinity are right there in one verse.

Luke 3:21 RSV Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heaven was opened,
Luke 3:22 RSV and the Holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form, as a dove, and a voice came from heaven, “Thou art my beloved Son; with thee I am well pleased.”

Again, the Trinity is present. First there was Jesus who is the Son of God, then there was the Holy Spirit descending on him as a dove, and finally there was the voice of the Father saying that He was well pleased with His Son.

John 10:30 RSV I and the Father are one."

Here we see that God the Father and God the Son (and God the Holy Spirit which is not mentioned here) are one God.

I would also recommend that you read this link which clearly shows that the early Christians believed in the Trinity:

catholic.com/library/Trinity.asp

Sacred Scripture implicitly reveals the Trinity. By citing the same scriptures heretics have espoused the false doctrine of Tritheism: the existence of three separate divine beings or Gods in the Godhead, each a separate conscious entity but one to the extent that they share a common divinty. The Mormons believe that there are countless gods who serve the top three Gods of the Triad. Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church have made the true revelation of the Trinity contained in the scriptures explicit. The true ontology of the Trinity has been revealed to the Catholic Church by the Holy Spirit in the deposit of faith: Scripture and Tradition. The descent of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and Tradition precede Scripture. Scripture is infallible by virtue of the infallibilty of Tradition which is prompted by the Spirit.

This is where the double standard of Protestantism comes in. Orthodox and heterodox Protestants accept the Catholic Church’s dogma of the Trinity, but reject the dogma of the Immaculate Conception and the doctrine of Mary’s intercessory role in the economy of salvation. If the Church is wrong in her Marian teachings, then how can Protestants be sure that the Church hasn’t erred in her Trinitarian and Christological doctrines? By arguing from the scriptures? If the scriptures are a sure guide, then how on earth have all these heresies arisen? And if there is no central Apostolic teaching authority of the Church or in Christendom, then who can know with certainty in his religious persuasion that his belief is the true one: baptism, the Eucharist, dispensationalism, marriage and divorce, etc?

With no Apostolic teaching authority of the one universal Catholic Church, there would be no point for our Lord to send the promised Paraclete. Protestants of countless denominations just pick and choose what they want to believe, and so they are seriously divided among themselves in their essential doctrines. The Spirit of truth is not the source of their mortal conflicting traditions. With regard to Catholicism, the Trinity sounds fine, but the Immaculate Conception of Mary and her powerful intercessory role is a little bit too much for them.

“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.”
John 16, 12-13

God is One, His truth is One, His Holy Catholic Apostolic Church is One.

PAX :tanning:

 

[Gamera]

Okay, why don’t you educate us on the difference between a Mother of the Creator vs Creator of the Creator.

And which is Mary?
.

Mother. NOT creator. I explained this pages back.

A creator is the one who creates. God alone creates every human being.

A mother is a woman who conceives, carries, and gives birth to a child.

“Mother” does not mean “creator.” Mary conceived Jesus and gave birth to Him. She is therefore His mother. Motherhood does not imply creation, but conception, gestation and birth.

A mother gives birth to a person, not just to the person’s body, but to a whole person (body, mind, soul). To claim otherwise is to deny that a whole person emerges from the womb. Would I dare tell my mother that she didn’t give birth to me, just to my body? How absurd!

To deny that Mary is the mother of God is to deny the Incarnation. It is to deny (as did ancient heretics) that Jesus was both fully God and fully man from the moment of His conception in Mary’s womb.

Jesus was fully God and fully human from the moment of His conception. He wasn’t a man who later became God. He wasn’t a spirit in the appearance of a man. He was fully God and fully human. Jesus was born from Mary’s womb, so Mary is the mother — not the creator, but the mother — of God.

 

[Gamera]

Why aren’t you answering me on the difference between Mother of Creator vs Creator of Creator??? :hammering:

Maybe because I already explained this pages back?

We do NOT think Mary created God. How often must I post the same thing? Should I make it my signature line?

God was conceived as a human being in Mary’s womb, carried by her for nine months, and born of her. He is her child and she is His mother.

“But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother …,” John 19:25. John 19:25 doesn’t call Mary
his “vessel.” It calls Mary “his mother.” Not his creator. His mother.

It is BECAUSE Mary agreed to act as God’s mother that she is God’s humble servant.

 

[Gamera]

So, mary did not create the creator, but she gave BIRTH to the creator? So okay, where did the creator come from?

God didn’t come from anywhere. He is eternal, timeless, the Alpha and Omega.

More specifically, Jesus is eternal and timeless (John 1:1). Yet John 19:25 refers to Mary as “his mother.” Not his creator. His mother. Because at one point in history 2000 years ago, God became a man.

 

[Scientiphic]

Mother. NOT creator. I explained this pages back.

A creator is the one who creates. God alone creates every human being.

A mother is a woman who conceives, carries, and gives birth to a child.

“Mother” does not mean “creator.” Mary conceived Jesus and gave birth to Him. She is therefore His mother. Motherhood does not imply creation, but conception, gestation and birth.

A mother gives birth to a person, not just to the person’s body, but to a whole person (body, mind, soul). To claim otherwise is to deny that a whole person emerges from the womb. Would I dare tell my mother that she didn’t give birth to me, just to my body? How absurd!

To deny that Mary is the mother of God is to deny the Incarnation. It is to deny (as did ancient heretics) that Jesus was both fully God and fully man from the moment of His conception in Mary’s womb.

Jesus was fully God and fully human from the moment of His conception. He wasn’t a man who later became God. He wasn’t a spirit in the appearance of a man. He was fully God and fully human. Jesus was born from Mary’s womb, so Mary is the mother — not the creator, but the mother — of God.

Thanks for the information. But know what the Bible says?

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:

All that you mentioned…gestation…etc. NOTHING.

I don’t mean to offend, but its very clear in the Bible that the flesh is USELESS. And Jesus is God not because of what Mary contributed because Jesus is already God even before the conception. So, whatever function she served in giving ‘birth’’ does not attribute her with the title - Mother of God.

IN FACT, the Bible NEVER says she’s the mother of God…at best Elizabeth only said ‘mother of my lord’. LOOOOOOK…its not mother of God.

 

[Gamera]

Your question can be rephrased thus, bearing in MIND that Mary did NOT give birth to Jesus’ DIVINITY which is the entity that makes Jesus GOD.

1. A man was seen coming out of the filthy HUT: Yes/No
2. The man is the president:

Therefore the president is a resident of the HUT.

.

This is what Nestorius argued 1500 years ago. The problem is that if Jesus wasn’t God when he came out of Mary’s womb, then he “became” God later. That is heresy. Jesus was fully God and fully human from the instant of his conception. If you concede that, you can’t get around the fact that God was born of a woman. This is the whole point of the Christian religion – that God became one of us in order to die for us on the cross.

 

[Gamera]

Thanks for the information. But know what the Bible says?

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:

All that you mentioned…gestation…etc. NOTHING.

Great! The flesh profiteth nothing. What does that have to do with anything here? Either Mary is God’s mother (NOT creator) or she wasn’t. The whole point of the Incarnation is that God became one of us, like us in all things but sin. If he lacked a mother, he wouldn’t be like us in all things but sin.

Like all marian doctrines, this is all about Who Jesus is. He was a man, just like us except sinless. He also is God, the Alpha and the Omega.