Why are you using the term “full of grace” for Mary when the superior translation is “hail favored” one?
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Hi JA4T1T,
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Notice to Catholics**
The New Official CAF Answer to: JustAskingForThe100thTime’s questions about Mary being “full of grace”[/SIGN]
You have been told that the phrase “full of grace” is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. This word represents the proper name of the person being addressed by the angel, and it therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo (Strong’s 5487), meaning “to fill or endow with grace.” Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates a perfection of grace that is both intensive and extensive. This means that the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit, and was not only as “full” or strong or complete as possible at any given time, but it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence to have been called “full of grace.”
catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0102sbs.asp
To answer your question who has the final authority. Let Mary answer that. “Do whatever He (Jesus) tells you.”
Jesus. Second, if Mary is good enough for Jesus for 33 years of his life, then she is good enough for me and everyone else.
We, Catholics do not put Mary above Jesus. Second, in the approved apparition of Mary, Mary calls sinners to Her son, Jesus Christ.
In fact she gave us this Fatima Prayer to be added in the Rosary.
“Oh, My Jesus. Forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell, and Lead All souls into heaven, especially those who need most of your mercy. Amen.”
Second, Hail Mary comes from Gabriel’s greeting to Mary. In Luke 1:28 states, And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." IN Latin it is read as, Et ingressus angelus ad eam dixit have gratia plena Dominus tecum benedicta tu in mulieribus.
The word for full of grace is Kecharitomene.
The variant of charitoo here is echaritosen. While Kecharitomene is, according to everything I’ve read, a perfect passive participle, echaritosen is an indicative active aorist; so, while Kecharitomene indicates, according to
www.ao.net/~fmoeller/zchxxxi.htm (talking about perfect passive participles in a different context and a different verse; brackets indicate where I am inserting “graced” for the word in the relevant text),
“It is permissible, on Greek grammatical and linguistic grounds, to paraphrase kecharitomene as completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.” (Blass and DeBrunner, Greek Grammar of the New Testament).
However, Luke 1:28 uses a special conjugated form of “charitoo.” It uses “kecharitomene,” while Ephesians 1:6 uses “echaritosen,” which is a different form of the verb “charitoo.” Echaritosen means “he graced” (bestowed grace). Echaritosen signifies a momentary action, an action brought to pass. (Blass and DeBrunner, Greek Grammar of the New Testament, p.166). Whereas, Kecharitomene, the perfect passive participle, shows a completeness with a permanent result. Kecharitomene denotes continuance of a completed action (H. W. Smyth, Greek Grammar [Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1968], p. 108-109, sec 1852:b; also Blass and DeBrunner, p.175).
Here are a number of ancient experts and what they say it means; each of them is a Greek-speaker from a culture basically identical to that of St. Luke; there are a couple repeats from the previous thread, but from them I give new material, too; the passages are expositions by the authors of the meaning of Luke 1:28, generally centered on chaire, Kecharitomene:
Gregory Thaumaturgus (205-270 AD):
O purest one
O purest virgin
where the Holy Spirit is, there are all things readily ordered. Where divine grace is present
the soil that, all untilled, bears bounteous fruit
in the life of the flesh, was in possession of the incorruptible citizenship, and walked as such in all manner of virtues, and lived a life more excellent than man’s common standard
thou hast put on the vesture of purity
has selected thee as the holy one and the wholly fair;
and through thy holy, and chaste, and pure, and undefiled womb
since of all the race of man thou art by birth the holy one, and the more honourable, and the purer, and the more pious than any other: and thou hast a mind whiter than the snow, and a body made purer than any gold
When Gabriel appears to Mary, the first words he says to her are “Chaire, kecharitomene!” [Caire, kecaritomene!]. Chaire (which means both “rejoice” and “hail”) is the salutation, like the word “hello” in “hello, Cathy!” The word that follows, kecharitomene, is the direct address. In the previous example, the name “Cathy” is the direct address. A direct address is usually a name or title (or pronoun taking the place of a name or title) which represents the identity of the person being spoken to. Gabriel identifies Mary with a single term: not the name “Mary,” but the word kecharitomene.
Here, a common translation problem occurs. Gabriel only uses one word to refer to Mary, but most English translations do not. One particularly bad translation renders kecharitomene as “highly favored daughter.” Kecharitomene is extended from one word to three. The direct address in the translation is “daughter,” a word which does not appear in the Greek at all (as will be shown below). “Daughter” is then modified with a relevant word. This doesn’t really do kecharitomene justice. The same is true of translations which make the direct address “you” or “one” and modify it with adjectives or appositive phrases.
JA4T1T, Did that help, Please ask me again!
