Can Mary be Sinless and Intercede for you?

[Peter_J]

Do we agree that she nor anyone else in Scripture ever makes such a claim that she was sinless?

Not exactly. We agree that no one ever explicitly makes such a claim in Scripture. (We disagree about whether Gabriel made such a claim implicitly.)

 

[justasking4]

Part 1

Good Fella;4416578]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Why are you using the term “full of grace” for Mary when the superior translation is “hail favored” one? Even the newer Catholic translations are using this phrase such as the New American Bible.
Good Fella
I can assure you that the contemporary Catholic translations “favored one” and “highly favored” aren’t intended to mean that Mary was simply blessed for having been chosen to be the mother of our Lord although sinful. Catholic scholars have not suggested that someone can find favor with God without the benefit of his grace. Such a notion smacks of Pelagianism. The scholars who helped create the Jerusalem and New American Bible versions certainly give their sacred assent to the dogma of the Immaculate Conception and Mary’s personal sinlessness. The new Catholic translations mean that God had bestowed his grace on Mary to show favor to her for her divine vocation in life: the Divine Maternity. In other words, the grace God had endowed Mary with at an indefinite time before the Annunciation (Luke 1:30) was given to her as a sign of divine favour, a free gift of the Holy Spirit, unmerited on Mary’s part, on account of her divine destiny.
This is the issue where we disagree is where you write -“In other words, the grace God had endowed Mary with at an indefinite time before the Annunciation (Luke 1:30) was given to her as a sign of divine favour,…”
To say that because Mary was favored by God to mean that she was sinless her entire life is to read into this verse far more than it says. There is no hint in this verse that this means she was sinless. The angel certainly does not claim that she had to be sinless to bear the Christ.

This divine favor would not have been shown Mary if she were not chosen to be the mother of God’s Only-begotten Son. It is a fundamental Christian belief that no person can find favor with God apart from the reception of his divine grace.

Agreed.

Mary would have to be sinless in order to be granted the unique favor and privilege of being the mother of our Lord.

You are asserting something here that the Scriptures do not support. We do not find in any passage or verse in Scripture that mandates Mary to be sinless for Jesus to take on human flesh. What was necessary for Jesus to come into the world and to possess His deity was that the HS had to overshadow Mary. There had to be a divine involovement otherwise if Jesus was concieved by normal human means He would have only been a man and not the God-man.

And she was not merely used by God to conceive and bear his divine Son but especially chosen to be his mother for all eternity.

The relationships that are in the next world are not the same as in this world. Jesus said as much when He was challenged by the Sadducees in Matthew 22:23-32 about the woman who was married 7 times and who will be her husband in heaven. He says in verse 30 that there is no marriage in heaven. This should tell us that the relationships we have here do not carry on in the same way to next.

Thus the grace God had endowed her with was to endure throughout her entire life. This has been the belief of the Catholic Church since apostolic time (Lk 11:28).

The apostles never taught this.Interesting you should use Luke 11:28. If there ever was a passage to support the catholic understanding of Mary this would have been the place to do it. Rather Jesus does not point people to Mary but to the Scriptures.

 

[justasking4]

Part 2

Good Fella;4416578]

*“And indeed it was wholly fitting that so wonderful a mother should be ever resplendent with the glory of most sublime holiness and so completely free from all taint of original sin that she would triumph utterly over the ancient serpent. To her did the Father will to give his Only-begotten Son – the Son whom, equal to the Father and begotten by him, the Father loves from his heart – and to give this Son in such a way that he would be the one and the same common Son of God the Father and of the Blessed Virgin Mary. It was she whom the Son himself chose to make his Mother and it was from her that the Holy Spirit willed and brought it about that he should be conceived and born from whom he himself proceeds.” *
Ineffabilis Deus, Pope Pius lX, 8 December 1854
This is a good example of the pope going beyond what is written. He is expressing his ideas and not the Scriptures.

“Highly favored” (kecharitomene). Perfect passive participle of ‘chartoo’ and means endowed with grace (“charis”), enriched with grace as in Ephesians 1:6,…The Vulgate ‘gratiae plena’ is right if it means ‘full of grace which thou hast received;’

"
(Plummer). [Robertson, Archibald T., ‘Word Pictures in the New Testament’, Nashville: Broadman Press, 1930, vol. 2, p.13]

“Chartoo…Highly favoured as in Luke 1:28 meaning to bestow grace upon…it really does not mean to show favor, but to give grace to.”
[Lexicon to the Old and New Testaments, edited by Spiros Zodhiates, Th.D, 1988 Iowa Falls, Iowa, World Bible Publications Inc., p.1739]

“Luke 1:28 This is all one word in Greek ‘kecharitomene’ a perfect passive participle of the verb ,‘Chartoo’ …Abbott-Smith defines ‘Chartoo’ as follows endow with ‘charis’ i.e. 1. (a) to make graceful; (b) to endure with grace (i.e. divine favor)”
[Word Meaning in the New Testament, copyright 1986, printed by Henndrickson Publishing, edited by Ralph Earle, p.52]

“O favored one” (kecharitomene), the angel’s address to Mary, marks her out recipient of God’s special grace… For Luke she is a model beneficiary of God’s grace (1:48)."
[The Bible Knowledge Key Word Study, copyright 2002, Victor Publishing, edited by Darrell L. Block, p.180]

PAX :tiphat:
If you look closely at these defintions you will not find one hint of being sinless.

 

[PJM]

Hebrews 2:9

Heb. 2:9 But we see Jesus, who for a little while was made lower than the angels, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for every one.

Reply:what are angels? Answer: “perfect Spirits.”
what is Jesus? Perfect God (Spirit) and Perfect Human beign.

Hebrews 5:"8 Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through what he suffered; 9 and being made perfect (that is sinless) He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him.

Does this explain your concerns?

God bless,
PJM m.c

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
Do we agree that she nor anyone else in Scripture ever makes such a claim that she was sinless?

Peter J
Not exactly. We agree that no one ever explicitly makes such a claim in Scripture. (We disagree about whether Gabriel made such a claim implicitly.)

Where in the passage does it make you think Gabriel is making some kind of implicit claim that Mary has been sinless her entire life?

 

[justasking4]

RobGentner;4416597]**Yes, that is really true! Thank God for confession. I remember a tale from our Oral Tradition:

A young boy was awaken by God and told to go tell his King an important message. The boy went, The King said “Wait, How do I know this message is from God? Go back and if He awakens you again, Tell Him I want Him to tell you my last sin was. If you can answer that question correctly, I will believe His message.” The boy went back to sleep, later God awoke Him again. The boy told God what the King had said. After God talked to the boy, he ran to the king again. He said “God said to give you this message,” The King said. “First what did He say my last sin was?” The Boy said "God, said to tell you that He had forgiven you, and actually He didn’t remember’! The Catholic King listen to what God had told the boy and lived happily ever after! **
This is the first example of Oral Tradition that i have seen. Do you know who told this story and when?

That is what is Great about being Catholic. Jesus gave us such powerful tools against sin and evil and the devil. When we confess our sins to the Priest our sins are truly forgiven. Mary was lucky she never sinned and intercedes for us!

Can a Catholic confess his sins directly to Mary and be forgiven?

**Welcome the “forgiven” and “Full of Grace” Catholic’s into Heaven, from purgatory?

Hmmm, 64 x 10 an hour x 24 = " Zero" with the Grace of God and the intercession of the Blessed Mother! Hail Mary, now and at the hour of my Death. AMEN!!!**

**And His Mommy! **

When a catholic prays to Mary at the hour of death does she prepare the catholic for purgatory or heaven?

Secondly at the hour of death are catholics encouraged wear the Brown Scapular which is connected with the The Sabbatine Privilege?

Here is a quote from an article that can be be accessed below:

"The Scapular even extends to Purgatory. The name Sabbatine Privilege is derived from the apocryphal Bull “Sacratissimo uti culmine” of Pope John XXII, 3 March, 1322. Through the Sabbatine Privilege, we can be released from Purgatory on the first Saturday (Sabbath) after death.
There are three requirements to make oneself eligible for this privilege: 1st, we must wear the Scapular; 2nd, observe Chastity according to our state of life and 3rd, recite the Little Office of Our Blessed Mother (The Rosary can be substituted for the office by obtaining permission from a priest.) Our Lady revealed to Venerable Dominic of Jesus and Mary: “Although many wear my Scapular, only a few fulfill conditions for the Sabbatine Privilege.” We maintain the majority don’t know them. It is an act of charity to make the Sabbatine Privilege known to all. A soul from Purgatory was asked by a Sister: “What is the average stay of the souls in Purgatory?" The Poor Soul answered: “From thirty to forty years!” Can you see the importance of making Our Lady’s Privilege known – if you consider that the flames are the same as the fires of Hell!”

This quote can be found here: olrl.org/pray/rosary.shtml

 

[guanophore]

ja4
Now how in the world could you state in post 830 I quote:

I don’t understand why would a believer in Christ need to fear hell if Jesus already paid the price for our sins! What’s up with that!

This is a good point. It also kinda makes the only prayer He taught us obselete. Why would we need to keep asking God to “forgive us our trespasses” if it was already done once and for all?

This is the issue where we disagree is where you write -“In other words, the grace God had endowed Mary with at an indefinite time before the Annunciation (Luke 1:30) was given to her as a sign of divine favour,…”
To say that because Mary was favored by God to mean that she was sinless her entire life is to read into this verse far more than it says. There is no hint in this verse that this means she was sinless.

Well, we read it differently.

When you learn something about grammar, you will come to find that a perfect passive participle means that there is a completed action that has occurred in past with enduring results in the present and future. “having been filled with grace” gives no indication that this condition will ever cease. This is also why the angel greets her with such respect.

The angel certainly does not claim that she had to be sinless to bear the Christ.

While this is debatable, I think this concept was really not clearly understood by the Church until the seconde century, when they began to defend against the heresies of Gnosticism and Arianism. I don’t think one can understand this doctrine without first understanding these heresies. If you really want to be successful battering the Bride of Christ on this point, you may want to give them some study, so that the black eyes you want to give her will show up better.

This is true, but then, we don’t need a scriptural mandate. The Apostles did not need a scriptural mandate to write the scriptures, either.

We also have no “mandate” for the table of contents.

What was necessary for Jesus to come into the world and to possess His deity was that the HS had to overshadow Mary. There had to be a divine involovement otherwise if Jesus was concieved by normal human means He would have only been a man and not the God-man.

Well, God can do whatever He wants. I am sure there are an infinite number of ways. This is the way He chose.

The relationships that are in the next world are not the same as in this world. Jesus said as much when He was challenged by the Sadducees in Matthew 22:23-32 about the woman who was married 7 times and who will be her husband in heaven. He says in verse 30 that there is no marriage in heaven. This should tell us that the relationships we have here do not carry on in the same way to next.

I agree that they are not the same. Marriage is a physical union, and in heaven, “they are like angels” with spiritual bodies. Notice He does not say they are “dead” or “asleep”. He says they are alive in heaven.

The apostles never taught this.Interesting you should use Luke 11:28. If there ever was a passage to support the catholic understanding of Mary this would have been the place to do it. Rather Jesus does not point people to Mary but to the Scriptures.

No, ja4, Jesus was not pointing “to the Scriptures”. Jesus affirmed that Mary was blessed by the privilege of bearing Him, but EVEN MORE blessed because she “heard the word of God and obeyed it”. He is talking about the greeting of the Angel Gabriel, which had not yet been committed to scripture.

This is a good example of the pope going beyond what is written. He is expressing his ideas and not the Scriptures.

The pope, like all of us, is free to express his opinion, even if that is not found in scripture. God knows you do enough of it here! Why should you have more freedom to express yourself than the pope? You constantly support Sola Scriptura, which is going beyond the scripture.

Anyway, you are taking this passage out of context. Paul is referring to the letter he is writing, and the example that he just gave. At the time, there was no NT, and there was no reason for Paul to think that there would be.

If you look closely at these defintions you will not find one hint of being sinless.

Well, we read it differently.

We understand that, when one is full of grace, there is no room for sin. You might want to consider this, since you admit that you struggle with sin.

Where in the passage does it make you think Gabriel is making some kind of implicit claim that Mary has been sinless her entire life?

His greeting, “Hail Ketacaritarmene” translates “Honored greeting, One who has been filled with Grace”. The filling with grace occurred prior to the greeting of the angel. He refers to a completed action in the past. He does not use her name, but addresses her by her heavenly title.

This is the first example of Oral Tradition that i have seen. Do you know who told this story and when?

I can’t believe you fell for that. I really think you finally nailed the jello to the wall!

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;4417771]I can’t believe you fell for that. I really think you finally nailed the jello to the wall!

As you know i’m pretty stupid and i take this as an Oral Tradition.

This is a very strange question. Why would someone want to make a confession to someone who had not been authorized by Christ to give absolution? I guess maybe someone might be warming up…

Who says Mary needs the church for her to forgive sins like a priest? Is not Mary greater in power and authority than any priest or pope ?

Originally Posted by justasking4
Secondly at the hour of death are catholics encouraged wear the Brown Scapular which is connected with the The Sabbatine Privilege?

guanophore
You are pulling questions out of you bag again, aren’t you? I think ,when you get pinned to the wall by too much apologetics, you flee into changing the subject, and trying to derail the thread. I see that you are now back to posting lies as well. T’he Brown Scapular wearing has no relation to “the hour of death”. However, if you have forgotten, do a search, an re read the responses on the previous threads.

There are times we need our memories refreshed and especially when we are discussing a topic like this. Mary certainly is identified closely with the Brown Scapular and the privilege associated with it. Wearing the scapluar promises to take time off in purgatory. Here are 2 promises from it: the Blessed Virgin Mary’s promise that “whoever dies clothed in this (Scapular) shall not suffer eternal fire” and “Through the Sabbatine Privilege, we can be released from Purgatory on the first Saturday (Sabbath) after death.” The scapluar is one means in which Mary intercedes for catholics.

 

[guanophore]

ja4

Now how in the world could you state in post 830 I quote:

I don’t understand why would a believer in Christ need to fear hell if Jesus already paid the price for our sins! What’s up with that!

This is a good point. It also kinda makes the only prayer He taught us obselete. Why would we need to keep asking God to “forgive us our trespasses” if it was already done once and for all?

What was necessary for Jesus to come into the world and to possess His deity was that the HS had to overshadow Mary. There had to be a divine involovement otherwise if Jesus was concieved by normal human means He would have only been a man and not the God-man.

Well, God can do whatever He wants. I am sure there are an infinite number of ways. This is the way He chose.

The relationships that are in the next world are not the same as in this world. Jesus said as much when He was challenged by the Sadducees in Matthew 22:23-32 about the woman who was married 7 times and who will be her husband in heaven. He says in verse 30 that there is no marriage in heaven. This should tell us that the relationships we have here do not carry on in the same way to next.

I agree that they are not the same. Marriage is a physical union, and in heaven, “they are like angels” with spiritual bodies. Notice He does not say they are “dead” or “asleep”. He says they are alive in heaven.

The apostles never taught this.Interesting you should use Luke 11:28. If there ever was a passage to support the catholic understanding of Mary this would have been the place to do it. Rather Jesus does not point people to Mary but to the Scriptures.

No, ja4, Jesus was not pointing “to the Scriptures”. Jesus affirmed that Mary was blessed by the privilege of bearing Him, but EVEN MORE blessed because she “heard the word of God and obeyed it”. He is talking about the greeting of the Angel Gabriel, which had not yet been committed to scripture.

This is a good example of the pope going beyond what is written. He is expressing his ideas and not the Scriptures.

The pope, like all of us, is free to express his opinion, even if that is not found in scripture. God knows you do enough of it here! Why should you have more freedom to express yourself than the pope? You constantly support Sola Scriptura, which is going beyond the scripture.

Anyway, you are taking this passage out of context. Paul is referring to the letter he is writing, and the example that he just gave. At the time, there was no NT, and there was no reason for Paul to think that there would be.

If you look closely at these defintions you will not find one hint of being sinless.

Well, we read it differently.

We understand that, when one is full of grace, there is no room for sin. You might want to consider this, since you admit that you struggle with sin.

Where in the passage does it make you think Gabriel is making some kind of implicit claim that Mary has been sinless her entire life?

His greeting, “Hail Ketacaritarmene” translates “Honored greeting, One who has been filled with Grace”. The filling with grace occurred prior to the greeting of the angel. He refers to a completed action in the past. He does not use her name, but addresses her by her heavenly title.

Can a Catholic confess his sins directly to Mary and be forgiven?

This is a very strange question. Why would someone want to make a confession to someone who had not been authorized by Christ to give absolution? I guess maybe someone might be warming up…

Jesus ordained the Apostles, telling them “whose sins you retain, they are retained” etc. He did not ordain any women for this task, including His blessed mother.

It is definitely off topic.

When a catholic prays to Mary at the hour of death does she prepare the catholic for purgatory or heaven?

Not only that, but a person does not even have to be Catholic!

Secondly at the hour of death are catholics encouraged wear the Brown Scapular which is connected with the The Sabbatine Privilege?

You are pulling questions out of you bag again, aren’t you? I think ,when you get pinned to the wall by too much apologetics, you flee into changing the subject, and trying to derail the thread. I see that you are now back to posting lies as well. T’he Brown Scapular wearing has no relation to “the hour of death”. However, if you have forgotten, do a search, an re-read the responses on the previous threads.

Here is a quote from an article that can be be accessed below:

"The Scapular even extends to Purgatory. …

Off topic. Try opening a new thread, or reopen one of your old ones. Are you ready to concede, then, that Mary is sinless, and that she can intercede for us?

 

[guanophore]

This is the issue where we disagree is where you write -“In other words, the grace God had endowed Mary with at an indefinite time before the Annunciation (Luke 1:30) was given to her as a sign of divine favour,…”
To say that because Mary was favored by God to mean that she was sinless her entire life is to read into this verse far more than it says. There is no hint in this verse that this means she was sinless.

Well, we read it differently.

When you learn something about grammar, you will come to find that a perfect passive participle means that there is a completed action that has occurred in past with enduring results in the present and future. “having been filled with grace” gives no indication that this condition will ever cease. This is also why the angel greets her with such respect.

The angel certainly does not claim that she had to be sinless to bear the Christ.

While this is debatable, I think this concept was really not clearly understood by the Church until the seconde century, when they began to defend against the heresies of Gnosticism and Arianism. I don’t think one can understand this doctrine without first understanding these heresies. If you really want to be successful battering the Bride of Christ on this point, you may want to give them some study, so that the black eyes you want to give her will show up better.

You are asserting something here that the Scriptures do not support. We do not find in any passage or verse in Scripture that mandates Mary to be sinless for Jesus to take on human flesh.

This is true, but then, we don’t need a scriptural mandate. The Apostles did not need a scriptural mandate to write the scriptures, either.

We also have no “mandate” for the table of contents.

 

[adstrinity]

What are you grounding this on? Certainly the Baptist was full of grace to do what he was appointed to and yet as far as i know your church does not teach he was without sin. Correct?

No, you’re wrong. John the Baptist was born without sin and as I understand it, was free from sin, both original and personal, his entire life.

 

[PJM]

Where in the passage does it make you think Gabriel is making some kind of implicit claim that Mary has been sinless her entire life?

Reply: Mt.26:26 “hail Full of Grace” (Full means no room for sin, amen?)

How can we know? Good question. Common Sense.

I’m kiddin right? Nope

God is Perfect, will only accept perfect, “be you perfect as My heavenly Father is Perfect.” Thus Mary HAD TO BE PERFECT inorder to become the Mother of God.

As a SINGULAR God kept her that way. Why? another good question, could the Mother OF GOD be know as a sinner, and not effect the Sin Free Ministry of Her sin? NOPE:thumbsup:

God bless you,
PJM m.c.

 

[rinnie]

ja4 While I agree i misunderstood your post on falling from Grace, and admitted so. Now I am really confused. You ripped me in half saying you agree we can fall from grace. And I misread it, that you said we cannot fall from grace.

Now how in the world could you state in post 830 I quote:

I don’t understand why would a believer in Christ need to fear hell if Jesus already paid the price for our sins! What’s up with that!

ja4 you always seem to miss my questions but answer every one elses. Still waiting.

 

[rinnie]

Reply: Mt.26:26 “hail Full of Grace” (Full means no room for sin, amen?)

How can we know? Good question. Common Sense.

I’m kiddin right? Nope

God is Perfect, will only accept perfect, “be you perfect as My heavenly Father is Perfect.” Thus Mary HAD TO BE PERFECT inorder to become the Mother of God.

As a SINGULAR God kept her that way. Why? another good question, could the Mother OF GOD be know as a sinner, and not effect the Sin Free Ministry of Her sin? NOPE:thumbsup:

God bless you,
PJM m.c.

Don’t worry she or he knows but can’t except what the bible says I guess. Can’t think of any other reason. They wanted to see Where in the Bible its stated, And we showed them. What more can we do! But good work guys we proved our point!

 

[RobGentner]

ja4 you always seem to miss my questions but answer every one elses. Still waiting.

Good lock on that!

 

[RobGentner]

Of course Mary can be sinless and intercede for me! (The OP!)

This is the first example of Oral Tradition that i have seen. Do you know who told this story and when?

I think I was in the fifth grade. That would have been Sister Ann Maria in 1956? I Hope that helps ! I don’t remember if she read it out of a book, if so it might be from our written tradition. I know we were talking about God forgiving us before first confession.

Can a Catholic confess his sins directly to Mary and be forgiven?

You are sooo funny. Do you do stand-up or just here at CFA? We have priests for that!

When a catholic prays to Mary at the hour of death does she prepare the catholic for purgatory or heaven?

Stop it, you are too funny! We don’t have to wait until the hour of our death to pray to her! You silly goose! I personally think that being Jewish she prepares a pot of chicken soup. I love chicken soup, when it gets really cold, it makes your tummy feel good. Doesn’t it? With heavy broth and large chunks of chicken and egg noodles! {Oh sorry, that was off OP!} I think the Catholic church prepares us for heaven by teaching us the correct things. Some may l have to be purified in purgatory. They would be mostly the ones who get contaminated by protestant influences more than others I would think.

Secondly at the hour of death are catholics encouraged wear the Brown Scapular which is connected with the The Sabbatine Privilege?

**No silly, we are encouraged to wear a scapular all the time. The people with a real "special "devotion to The Blessed Mother can join the lay society of the Brown Scapular. There isn’t even a fee that has to be paid! I know that they get invested with the brown sacapular and wear it all the time after that. I think they pray the rosary daily like I do. I personally like the Blue Scapular society, better. The parties are bigger and the snacks are great! I actually had a green one when I was in the Army, I never did get a camouflaged one. You did know they came in all colors right? I heard that when Jessie Jackson found out about it he formed a “Rainbow collation” that was based on all the different colors of the scapulars, but I could be wrong on that! I think I once heard from Oral tradition that they are called “scapular” because they were made from “scraps” of cloth. “ular” may come from the greek for “hangs on the neck”, or maybe not? My wife color coordinates all of hers depending on her dress. You know how women are. Red, Yellow, Pink, Orange. She has dozens I am sure The Black Scapular folks are proud right now! Did you hear about our new president elect? I hope this information is helping you acquire a better understanding of our religion. I wouldn’t want someone playing with you when you ask these sincere questions. You deserve sincerity in return. **

Here is a quote from an article that can be be accessed below:

“The Scapular even extends to Purgatory. The name Sabbatine Privilege is derived from the apocryphal Bull “Sacratissimo uti culmine” of Pope John XXII, 3 March, 1322. Through the Sabbatine Privilege, we can be released from Purgatory on the first Saturday (Sabbath) after death.
There are three requirements to make oneself eligible for this privilege:
1st, we must wear the Scapular;
2nd, observe Chastity according to our state of life and
3rd, recite the Little Office of Our Blessed Mother (The Rosary can be substituted for the office by obtaining permission from a priest.)
Our Lady revealed to Venerable Dominic of Jesus and Mary: “Although many wear my Scapular, only a few fulfill conditions for the Sabbatine Privilege.”
We maintain the majority don’t know them. It is an act of charity to make the Sabbatine Privilege known to all. A soul from Purgatory was asked by a Sister: “What is the average stay of the souls in Purgatory?” The Poor Soul answered: “From thirty to forty years!” Can you see the importance of making Our Lady’s Privilege known – if you consider that the flames are the same as the fires of Hell!”

This quote can be found here: olrl.org/pray/rosary.shtml

Thanks, but I actually knew all about that. We were reading some of the Sacred Written Tradition documents the other night and guess what? The apocryphal Bull “Sacratissimo uti culmine” of Pope John XXII, was one of them.
Oh, the mention of the time souls must remain in purgatory reminded me of another Oral tradition that I can share with you.
Please remember not to write it down. We like our oral tradition separate and not to get confused with our written tradition. Just keep repeating it, over and over again, like you do your questions that you ask. If you do it enough you will memorize it. OK? Ready?

**A guy talks to God and says “God, can you answer a few questions for me?” God said “Of course, My son! What can I tell you?” The man said , “Is it true that time means nothing to you ,nor us when we die and go to Heaven?” God, said “Yes, my son, that is true. A million years for you is but a second here in Heven for me and the Angels and Saints!” The man then asked “Is it true that you love us so much that you will give us anything we ask of you?” God said “Yes, my son, that is true! Whatever you want I can give you because I love you.” The man said “God, could I have a Million dollars?” God said " Of course, my son. Just give me a second!" **

**Oh, JA4, **I wouldn’t want to mislead you. I may have gotten that one from the “Catholic Altar Boy’s Book of Jokes”. I will check that out and get back with you: in a second!

**God Bless **

 

[justasking4]

rinnie;4419500]
Originally Posted by rinnie
ja4 While I agree i misunderstood your post on falling from Grace, and admitted so. Now I am really confused. You ripped me in half saying you agree we can fall from grace. And I misread it, that you said we cannot fall from grace.

Now how in the world could you state in post 830 I quote:

I don’t understand why would a believer in Christ need to fear hell if Jesus already paid the price for our sins! What’s up with that!

Since Christ died for our sins and took the penalty of them i.e. hell forever we need not fear hell. Romans 8:1 is clear about this where it says–Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Hell is about condemnation and Christ by His death and resurrection has delivered all believers from that.

rinnie
ja4 you always seem to miss my questions but answer every one elses. Still waiting.

Sorry about that. Sometimes i miss it but most of the time there are some of my “friends” who need more attention. They are the ones who are most confused…

 

[RobGentner]

Where in the passage does it make you think Gabriel is making some kind of implicit claim that Mary has been sinless her entire life?

**Hi JA4, **
I LOVE the easy questions! Thanks for asking them!

Ready?

Where he says: “FULL OF GRACE”!

**Thanks for allowing me to play, By the way, I don’t want to say anything, but it appears rude that you are not answering rinnie. Feeling are being hurt and people are starting to talk! **

Now go answer rinnie first than you can come back and tell me how just because Mary was sinless then doesn’t mean she was her entire life.

**I think if I was around Jesus for His entire life, I would remain sinless. I mean He is God! And I am sure she wouldn’t want Him saying “Mom, What did you just do or think?” How embarrassing would that be for her. Lucky she was full of grace so there wasn’t any room for sin! **

**OK go answer rinnie. I will wait! **

 

[justasking4]

**Hi JA4, **
I LOVE the easy questions! Thanks for asking them!

Ready?

Where he says: “FULL OF GRACE”!

**Thanks for allowing me to play, By the way, I don’t want to say anything, but it appears rude that you are not answering rinnie. Feeling are being hurt and people are starting to talk! **

Now go answer rinnie first than you can come back and tell me how just because Mary was sinless then doesn’t mean she was her entire life.

**I think if I was around Jesus for His entire life, I would remain sinless. I mean He is God! And I am sure she wouldn’t want Him saying “Mom, What did you just do or think?” How embarrassing would that be for her. Lucky she was full of grace so there wasn’t any room for sin! **

**OK go answer rinnie. I will wait! **

I just answered Rinnie. I just hope he-she doesn’t read yours and your gang’ posts. Talk about massive confusion…

By now you know that “full of grace” does not mean without sin. I can repost the defintion again if you are still confused…

Secondly there were all kinds of people who were close to the Lord Jesus called disciples and not one of them ever claims to be sinless…

Let me encourage you and your gang to go back the drawing board and try something else…:banghead:

 

[RobGentner]

**Well I am glad you and rinnie are talking again! Try and be nicer! We both know you have a big heart! **

Since Christ died for our sins and took the penalty of them i.e. hell forever we need not fear hell. Romans 8:1 is clear about this where it says–Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

**That is so true. Party at your house, tonight! You bring the booze, I’ll pick up some women ! We will have an orgy! Make sure you have a lot of porn films! people love them!Thanks for reminding us that we can’t be punished for our sins any more! What a relief! **

Hell is about condemnation and Christ by His death and resurrection has delivered all believers from that.

**Is this a new religion you are going to start? Does it involve nailing red jello to the wall? Will you smear it all overy our bodies. No wait, that has been done. I think your nailing it to the wall will be unique! You could do it in the sign of a Cross! Yea, If I was you, I would stick with that! **

Sorry about that. Sometimes i miss it but most of the time there are some of my “friends” who need more attention. They are the ones who are most confused…

**That is what I love about you. Giving, giving, and giving. You do that almost as much as you ask, and ask, and ask! What a person! Reference being confused, would you mind going over this new religion you want to start? Can we make a lot money? I might join if I can have dule citizenship (Would that be the correct term to use? See I get so confused!) If I can remain a pratical catholic and we can make big bucks with yuor new religion count me in! I mean Jesus already saved us! Right? We can have Booze, and the rest! Have you thought of making the seven deadly sins your seven sacraments? We might pick up a lot of the Cults! That would be awesome! I can see the fire of hell now! Burning more brightly! **