can mediums contact the dead?

[butterfly10954]

Devil’s Advocate here…no pun intended.
Why is it so easy for you to write this off as bunk?
If you believe all of the “supernatural” things in the Bible and miracles and such, is it so much more difficult to believe that there are people in this world who possess gifts of contacting those that have gone before?

 

[wolpertinger]

butterfly10954:

Devil’s Advocate here…no pun intended.
Why is it so easy for you to write this off as bunk?
If you believe all of the “supernatural” things in the Bible and miracles and such, is it so much more difficult to believe that there are people in this world who possess gifts of contacting those that have gone before?

If you directed this question to me, then the answer is that as a sceptic, I lack belief in the supernatural and and as an atheist, I lack belief in Biblical miracles.

 

[Fergal]

hi Folks!
A word of warning abouot Christina Gallagher. I live in Ireland and am very aware of the house of Prayer. Look at the errors expressed in the above message. Mass save a dead son from the arms of demons? Demons are in hell. If you are there you can’t be released. no demons can enter purgatory. So I can’t see what level this message is aimed at.

The Archbishop has removed the Blessed Sacrament from the place and prohibits the saying of Mass there.

Just be careful and listen to the voice of the Church on this one.

Fergal
Naas
Ireland

 

[Jennifer123]

Poprox:

Hmm…strange, I know someone who actually truly is “psychic”

I don’t doubt it, I don’t disbelieve in “psychic” powers quite the contrary, but what most of us are saying is that those powers cannot be from God if they are given and/or used in a way that’s contrary to His teachings. Too often these “gifts” are given to distort God’s message, whereas true spritual gifts are those given by God, gifts that we can’t manifest on our own, to build His kingdom. For example, discernment of spirits or something like that, used to protect HIs followers, rahter than used to tell them things that aren’t true, that lead people away from “the way, the truth and the life”. Satan’s ways are very subtle and the use of psychic powers may seem to be for the “good”, but are actually lies, deceptions and distortions.

 

[hawkeye]

Fergal:

hi Folks!
A word of warning abouot Christina Gallagher. I live in Ireland and am very aware of the house of Prayer. Look at the errors expressed in the above message. Mass save a dead son from the arms of demons? Demons are in hell. If you are there you can’t be released. no demons can enter purgatory. So I can’t see what level this message is aimed at.

The Archbishop has removed the Blessed Sacrament from the place and prohibits the saying of Mass there.

Just be careful and listen to the voice of the Church on this one.

Fergal
Naas
Ireland

Demons are in Hell, :ehh: then with all due respect, who tempts us to sin.
Christina Gallagher is still under investigation by the Church, anyway if the Demons are in Hell, why was it possible for Jesus to send them into the swine, why did Jesus teach about getting rid of Demons, only to be taken over by hoards more ?
I have been to the house of prayer many times & met Christina, the house of prayer is still up and running, Christina has surrendered to the Authority of the Church & Bishop (obedience)
Why does the Vatican have an Exorcist ? surley we shouldn’t need one if there where no Demons.
So you have been been to Purgatory

 

[Fergal]

Hi hawkeye!
Now we are going off topic I know but hey refute the negative at all costs!! I am a little confused at your message on the mothers dead son being with demons and Mass being the way to save him from them. Serious theological difficulties there. Be careful.
I was talking about souls after death not ones still in this life on earth. Demons can tempt us here whilst we are alive or inflict their worst on us after death if we have assigned ourselves to hell.
They, of course, roam freely on earth. They can tempt us here whilst we live and inflict punishment on us here whilst we live. They cannot however enter heaven nor can they attempt to tempt or come close to a soul in purgatory as sould there have not died in mortal sin.
St. Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church, says in *The Summa Theologica *"It were unjust that he who has triumphed over someone, should be subjected to him after victory. Now those who are in Purgatory have triumphed over the demons, since they died without mortal sin. Therefore they will not be subjected to them through being punished by them."
The Church follows this line.
Christina Gallagher has made may boo-boo’s, however she has also made some converts to her own way of thinking. Pray hard about this one.
God Bless,
Fergal
Naas
Ireland

PS No I have not been to Purgatory yet. I do hope to get there.

 

[hawkeye]

Anyway my southern friend, I am too keeping an eye on Christina Gallagher, haven’t said I believe, just quoting something from one of her books.
Don’t know why your confused, I just told you that Christina said the boy was very close to Hell, but because his parents didn’t teach him well, mainley that sucide is wrong, then God had compassion on him.
Christina said there are many levels to Purgatory, one being the closest to hell, like Saint Faustina said there are many parts to Hell.
If you look a Catherine Emmircs writings, & I don’t know if her writings have been accepted by the Church, you will see that when Jesus went into what we know as hell, the demons tried to grab souls, but the angels prevented them from doing so.
We don’t know everything there is to know about Heaven Hell or Purgatory, but I have heard that Purgatory is the same suffering as Hell, except we will get out of there, but Hell no.
The Blessed sarcament has been taken from the house of prayer, only because a 100 yards to the left of the house, an ex (convent)
there is a Church, & I too have wondered when down in Mayo, why would we need the Blessed Sarcament in the house of prayer when we have a Church beside it, that hardly anyone goes into because the house seems to draw more than the Church.
Anyway the Bishop has said that the house of prayer has to be more intergrated with the Parish, so maybe this is the reason that they have removed the Blessed Sarcament.
Have you been to the House of Prayer ? have you seen the stigmata on Christina ? does this come from God or the Devil ?
When I quoted Saint Padre Pio, someone reminded me that Padre Pio was falable, so is Saint Aquinas, so am I so are you.

 

[Podo2004]

davy39:

I saw one on tv this morning, that says he can. I think it’s all bunk, What do you think?

you know davy39 i agree It is all bunk
Podo

 

[Mike_Rainville]

You should read the serious physical and spiritual harm that can come from evil spirits in the books by Fr. Gabriele Amorth “An Exorcist Tells His Story” (Ignatius)

 

[George789]

This link may help. I don’t think anyone should try contacting the dead. Ben Alexander use to be a medium. I don’t know who Christina Gallagher is but John Edwards is definitely a fraud.

I just started reading Fr. Gabriele Amorth’s book so far great read.

espministries.com/about.htm Click on main page for John Edwards aricle.

 

[Sowndog]

I am glad I have come across this thread because this is the very issue that has been on my mind recently due to a current TV series in the UK called *Mediums: Talking to the Dead. *I have read a little bit about the subject, and this is what I have concluded so far:
-People are easily enticed by mediums because a)They offer contact with lost loved ones, and b)Most people are unclear as to the Christian teachings on the subject
-Generally, the ‘mediums’ use a technique called Cold Reading. This is an difficult skill which the medium has developed, enabling them to extract small amounts of information about you without first knowing who you are. It is amazing how much you give away without actually knowing it. (Search for ‘cold reading’ on Google for more.) The popular British tv magician ‘Derren Brown’ has revealed most of these fraudulent techniques and proven them to be mere psychological trickery.
For info on Derren see: channel4.com/derrenbrown
-Some mediums are so accurate (eg. ‘Gordon Smith’, widely regarded as the most accurate medium in Britain,) that the cold reading theory doesnt seem to fit. The explaination may lie in a variation on cold reading (called *warm reading) *in which the medium has researched information on the client prior to their meeting.
-There are a small number of mediums who probably DO contact the spirit world, not through Christ, but through evil powers. God forbids contact with the dead, and so we can reject the argument of and medium who claims his/her ‘power’ is a gift from God.
To sum up, I believe that no good can come of this practice, for it is either a hoax or the work of Satan (or both). In any case, we simply don’t know enough about the spirit world to risk dabbling in these sorts of affairs, no matter how innocent they may at first appear.

Sowndog

 

[Shoshana]

The Catechism states:

Divination and magic

2115 God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone. 2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

We are to seek only the Holy Spirit.

In summary, as the Catechism states, all these things seek a “desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.” That is the final analysis: They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

This taken from St Michael’s SuperSite…
Blessings,
Shoshana

 

[carol_marie]

This is John Edwards:

I’m seeing a man… his name starts with the letter J. John… Jim… Joe? Does this sound like anyone you know?

I knew a James who died…

Yes! That’s it… James… he was your huband… father… brother… uncle?

Actually he was my nephew…

yes! Your nephew… and he died in… an accident? Car? Boat? I’m seeing an accident of some sort…

Well he commited suicide…

Yes! Suicide! And he drove a car didn’t he? I’m definatly seeing a car… or a boat? Something with a motor? Maybe blue… or green? Maybe blueish/greenish??

No… he didn’t drive… although now that I think about it… my Aunt drove a blue car.

Yes! That’s it! Blue car!

Actually it was grey.

Yes! Blue grey. I can see it.

And he played the drums… I’m seeing drums.

No… no he didn’t…

Well I’m seeing drums… or a marching band…

Well, he did listen to the radio…

Yes! That’s it… the radio… he listened to music on the radio!!!

What garbage! I could do his job!

 

[asteroid]

I want to learn cold reading techniques! Or at least learn enough about them to understand what’s going on. The whole realm of stage mentalism is fascinating and reveals so much about how the human mind operates.

Derren Browns recent “seance” was amazing. For those who don’t know Brown isn’t any sort of spiritist - in fact he really dislikes spiritism. He started by talking about the Fox sisters in 19th Century America who basically started the modern spiritualist movement - and then later revealed that they were using tricks to produce the effects. By then it was too late. The movement had taken hold and many were convinced. Arthur Conan Doyle firmly believed Houdini was a powerful spiritist, able to contact the dead, dematerialise etc. Houdini wasn’t - he was one of the first major debunkers and hated spiritism with a passion. Houdini’s writings on the tricks of Victorian spiritism can be recommended.

Brown went on to recreate many of the things that would have occurred in Victorian and modern seances - a “psychic” reading, the spirit cabinet, automatic writing, channelling and the ouija board - all without having to call up a single spirit. Quite amazing.

The main source of the effects was through auto-idiotic (?) suggestion - by which people do things they don’t think they’re doing and believe wholeheartedly that something else is going on. Was a spirit moving the cup on the ouija board? No, the people were but sincerely believed they weren’t. Was a spirit being channelled? No, the “spirit” came from the psyche of the person channelling, using suggestions and information previously gleaned. Quite amazing how the human brain functions.

That said, is mediumship possible? Certainly Samuel appeared when summoned, but was that a one off to rebuke Saul?

Are all mediums consciously being frauds? Certainly not - most mediums believe they are contacting the dead. There are inevitably some who know they are using trickery and psychics who use other trickery.

The question is whether all mediums are psychologically fooling themselves (and those who come to see them) or whether some are actually contacting the dead or whether they are contacting demons. I used to attend a spiritualist church sometimes before conversion and still don’t know the answer. I don’t believe the dead are ever being contacted by mediums. Whether it’s demons or psychological foolery I don’t know - probably a bit of both leaning much more to the demonic side with some of the writings that get channelled (the books of the Lucius (previously Lucifer) Press come to mind among other things).

Which may be beside the point - Scripture tells us mediumship is wrong. The catechism tells us it is wrong. And we know we’re in a spiritual war. Even if mediums can’t contact anything Satan is very happy with the movement. If it keeps people away from the truth and satisfied with living away from the light he is very happy.

Conclusion - Shoshanna & The Catechism put my conclusion far better than I would. Trust in God. Seek God.

Blessings

Asteroid

 

[Podo2004]

carol marie:

This is John Edwards:

I’m seeing a man… his name starts with the letter J. John… Jim… Joe? Does this sound like anyone you know?

I knew a James who died…

Yes! That’s it… James… he was your huband… father… brother… uncle?

Actually he was my nephew…

yes! Your nephew… and he died in… an accident? Car? Boat? I’m seeing an accident of some sort…

Well he commited suicide…

Yes! Suicide! And he drove a car didn’t he? I’m definatly seeing a car… or a boat? Something with a motor? Maybe blue… or green? Maybe blueish/greenish??

No… he didn’t drive… although now that I think about it… my Aunt drove a blue car.

Yes! That’s it! Blue car!

Actually it was grey.

Yes! Blue grey. I can see it.

And he played the drums… I’m seeing drums.

No… no he didn’t…

Well I’m seeing drums… or a marching band…

Well, he did listen to the radio…

Yes! That’s it… the radio… he listened to music on the radio!!!

What garbage! I could do his job!

i’ve heard from a person, that probably before the show he intercepts there conversations when people ask them questions, he intercepts the answers, so when he’s up there(let’s say he heard about a woman who came because he brother died from cancer) he’ll be like: Ohh i sense this man…what was his name? Jim, John yes john who died from cancer…
he just doesn’t not what he’s talking about… the sad thing is that people believe him
Podo The Hobbit

 

[Podo2004]

Shoshana:

The Catechism states:

Divination and magic

2115 God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone. 2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

We are to seek only the Holy Spirit.

In summary, as the Catechism states, all these things seek a "desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone." That is the final analysis: They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

This taken from St Michael’s SuperSite…
Blessings,
Shoshana

thanks for this! Now i can prove to my friend that horoscopes are no good! thanks again!
Podo The Hobbit

 

[Sowndog]

asteroid:

Derren Browns recent “seance” was amazing. For those who don’t know Brown isn’t any sort of spiritist - in fact he really dislikes spiritism. He started by talking about the Fox sisters in 19th Century America who basically started the modern spiritualist movement - and then later revealed that they were using tricks to produce the effects. By then it was too late. The movement had taken hold and many were convinced. Arthur Conan Doyle firmly believed Houdini was a powerful spiritist, able to contact the dead, dematerialise etc. Houdini wasn’t - he was one of the first major debunkers and hated spiritism with a passion. Houdini’s writings on the tricks of Victorian spiritism can be recommended.

Brown went on to recreate many of the things that would have occurred in Victorian and modern seances - a “psychic” reading, the spirit cabinet, automatic writing, channelling and the ouija board - all without having to call up a single spirit. Quite amazing.

Are all mediums consciously being frauds? Certainly not - most mediums believe they are contacting the dead. There are inevitably some who know they are using trickery and psychics who use other trickery.

Scripture tells us mediumship is wrong. The catechism tells us it is wrong. And we know we’re in a spiritual war. Even if mediums can’t contact anything Satan is very happy with the movement. If it keeps people away from the truth and satisfied with living away from the light he is very happy.

Conclusion - Shoshanna & The Catechism put my conclusion far better than I would. Trust in God. Seek God.

Blessings

Asteroid

I agree with what you said, Asteroid.
I saw Brown’s ‘seance’ both on TV and live on stage in Belfast. His evidence can safely allow us to write off the majority of mediums as hoaxers. But when it keeps people away from the truth it becomes much more serious than a simple hoax and indeed Satan would be happy to encourage this.

 

[catholicfun]

Mediums are people with a need for greed and can not talk to the dead!:tsktsk:

 

[Shoshana]

catholicfun:

Mediums are people with a need for greed and can not talk to the dead!:tsktsk:

They are not talking to the dead like you say…but they possibly may be talking to an evil spirit masked as one’s loved one…

Blessings,
Shoshana

 

[joshua1]

This thread is very interesting. The one I make the most fun of is that pet psychic on animal planet. What a Load of you know what. And I agree with alot of the posters here. how can anyone fall for that, It is beyond me. Maybe its all this new ageism or whatever. I really dont think that we can conjure up the dead, but we can communicate with them. Remember the communion of saints. We can ask them to pray for us. But a question I have always had was that could our deceased loved ones appear to us in dreams warning us about something or give advice. A friend at work told us a story and I dont know whether to believe it or not, that her grandmother in a dream led her to the place where she hid her money while alive. This person swears when she woke and went to that place, the money was there. Just some thoughts.