Can minus zero existence exist?

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Taking the series of causes, measured by time, you have a dominoes series going back in time. Only something outside time could start it. Only a mind that can choose can make a non-temporal movement. So God is real. Where is there a flaw in my reasoning? I have never felt I had a conversation with an atheist who did justice to my logic on this. I am open to it though
 
Taking the series of causes, measured by time, you have a dominoes series going back in time.
No, the domino at starting point does need a cause to move if it is unstable. This is known as inflation theory of universe at which there existed a unstable energy at the beginning. You can read more in this simple short article.
Only something outside time could start it.
Something which is outside of time is timeless. Cause and effect cannot lay at the same timeless point. This is contrary since there is no need for cause if effect is at timeless point.
Only a mind that can choose can make a non-temporal movement. So God is real.
Decision is an act as a result of moving from a potentiality to actuality. God is pure actual therefore He cannot decide.
Where is there a flaw in my reasoning? I have never felt I had a conversation with an atheist who did justice to my logic on this. I am open to it though
I have another argument which states that time is fundamental and cannot be created: Time is the fundamental variable of any dynamical theory therefore it cannot be an emergent phenomena in the same theory. This means that there exist not a dynamical theory with time as an emergent phenomena. Therefore time cannot be created. Time however just has a beginning/starting point (when unstable energy burst).

I hope that things clear by now. 🙂
 
If you or anyone else on this forum could refute my argumentation I would be an agnostic. I haven’t seen the evidence though. I don’t believe in Aquinas’s five ways. Only the first one which I am presenting. I don’t see why energy that is unstable doesn’t need a push from the Beyond. All energy works like a dominoes series. If there are particles that act differently, they would be subject to the dominoes series to start. If particle A and particle B when touching start of a new series, they cannot touch unless the original dominoes series makes them touch. I don’t want to argue with your contention that God cannot create. I think he can, but I just want to know what your position is. Even if God can’t create, than the scenario doesn’t make sense. I would rather leave it at that. Why do you believe that there is no need of a cause at a timeless point? That is an interesting contention.

God doesn’t change from contingent decisions. His nature stays the same. But again, I just want to know how you make sense of the dominoes series without God. Even if the God hypothesis doesn’t make sense, that doesn’t make your position make sense automatically.
 
If you or anyone else on this forum could refute my argumentation I would be an agnostic. I haven’t seen the evidence though. I don’t believe in Aquinas’s five ways. Only the first one which I am presenting. I don’t see why energy that is unstable doesn’t need a push from the Beyond.
Your set of dominoes needs a mover because they are stable. Something which is otherwise, unstable, moves on its own.
All energy works like a dominoes series. If there are particles that act differently, they would be subject to the dominoes series to start. If particle A and particle B when touching start of a new series, they cannot touch unless the original dominoes series makes them touch. I don’t want to argue with your contention that God cannot create. I think he can, but I just want to know what your position is.
My position is very simple. An unstable form of energy at the beginning. It was just there, uncaused like God, and could cause because it is unstable.
Even if God can’t create, than the scenario doesn’t make sense. I would rather leave it at that. Why do you believe that there is no need of a cause at a timeless point? That is an interesting contention.
We are talking about creation. If the stuff, the effect, was already at the beginning then we don’t need an act of creating. You cannot have cause and effect at a timeless point so things were simply there at the beginning.
God doesn’t change from contingent decisions.
Then He is not pure act.
His nature stays the same. But again, I just want to know how you make sense of the dominoes series without God. Even if the God hypothesis doesn’t make sense, that doesn’t make your position make sense automatically.
I already explain my position. That is the only option now. The beginning however could be more mysterious and I agree with you (bold part).
 
God is pure act in His essence but He changes in the sense that He wills to create and is affected by our choices. It doesn’t affect His essence though.

I was talking to a friend yesterday about Hume. In his view the world is just a series of pictures with bubbles of force thrown in within it. I’ve been thinking really hard about the bubbles of force being “unstable” as you say, and whether they have to have a spiritual cause. Imagine nothing in the universe ever moving, and you forever having watched a train sit still. All of a sudden it moves. Can it be without a cause? You says its own force, and that the singularity had it own cause within it. These are very difficult concepts :confused: I guess it is just easier to believe in God. Thanks for the conversation STT
 
God is pure act in His essence but He changes in the sense that He wills to create and is affected by our choices. It doesn’t affect His essence though.

I was talking to a friend yesterday about Hume. In his view the world is just a series of pictures with bubbles of force thrown in within it. I’ve been thinking really hard about the bubbles of force being “unstable” as you say, and whether they have to have a spiritual cause. Imagine nothing in the universe ever moving, and you forever having watched a train sit still. All of a sudden it moves. Can it be without a cause? You says its own force, and that the singularity had it own cause within it. These are very difficult concepts :confused: I guess it is just easier to believe in God. Thanks for the conversation STT
How is God affected by our choices?
 
Saddened when we sin. Plus His knowledge of His own contingent will to create
 
Taking the series of causes, measured by time, you have a dominoes series going back in time. Only something outside time could start it. Only a mind that can choose can make a non-temporal movement. So God is real. Where is there a flaw in my reasoning? I have never felt I had a conversation with an atheist who did justice to my logic on this. I am open to it though
Why would it have to be a ‘mind that can choose’ ?

Why couldn’t there be a extra-temporal non-sentient animal that just ‘poops out’ universes as part of its biology?
 
God didn’t have to create, so his decision was contingent. It was nothing compared to His necessity so it didn’t change Him
 
Why would it have to be a ‘mind that can choose’ ?

Why couldn’t there be a extra-temporal non-sentient animal that just ‘poops out’ universes as part of its biology?
Because that merely continues the cycle of the series. A mind like God’s never changes even while it wills something
 
Why would it have to be a ‘mind that can choose’ ?

Why couldn’t there be a extra-temporal non-sentient animal that just ‘poops out’ universes as part of its biology?
Well, for one, you just mentioned something that is composed and changing, so this “extra-temporal non-sentient animal” can’t be a prime mover or first cause.
 
Well, for one, you just mentioned something that is composed and changing, so this “extra-temporal non-sentient animal” can’t be a prime mover or first cause.
do you agree with my argument or do you have another one?
 
Well, for one, you just mentioned something that is composed and changing, so this “extra-temporal non-sentient animal” can’t be a prime mover or first cause.
Well, not a prime mover or first cause of whatever non-temporal, outside our universe that it lives in, sure.

But it could be the prime mover and first cause of our universe.
 
The motion of the dominoes series needs a start. STT is saying that the initial singularity has its own causality like God would. I’ve thought of that before. Its a very hard concept. Not sure what to say about it though
 
The motion of the dominoes series needs a start. STT is saying that the initial singularity has its own causality like God would. I’ve thought of that before. Its a very hard concept. Not sure what to say about it though
Well, sure, but that’s not our problem - let’s say that outside of our universe, there is a prime mover that creates a universe, part of which is herds of “extra-temporal non-sentient animals” that poop out things like our universe.

Maybe they fertilize the lawn or something.

So the animal isn’t going to care about our universe, it just pooped it out and went on.

The prime mover of that universe doesn’t care about our universe, it’s just a bit more poop on the lawn.
 
The motion of the dominoes series needs a start. STT is saying that the initial singularity has its own causality like God would. I’ve thought of that before. Its a very hard concept. Not sure what to say about it though
Yes. And the stuff at starting of time was unstable, therefore you don’t need a mover, an unstable thing moves on itself.
 
Well, sure, but that’s not our problem - let’s say that outside of our universe, there is a prime mover that creates a universe, part of which is herds of “extra-temporal non-sentient animals” that poop out things like our universe.

Maybe they fertilize the lawn or something.

So the animal isn’t going to care about our universe, it just pooped it out and went on.

The prime mover of that universe doesn’t care about our universe, it’s just a bit more poop on the lawn.
It depends on what you mean by force. If force is like a domino set, you need something outside of MATTER to set it off, because God doesn’t move when He wills to create. However, STT is saying that the singularity didn’t need a cause but causes itself like we say God does. I don’t know how to respond
 
It depends on what you mean by force. If force is like a domino set, you need something outside of MATTER to set it off, because God doesn’t move when He wills to create. However, STT is saying that the singularity didn’t need a cause but causes itself like we say God does. I don’t know how to respond
Well, in a way, he’s right - all we know about how things work is how things work in the time and space we can observe.

Since we can’t know anything about what is outside the space and time we can observe, we don’t have any particular reason to insist that the singularity needed a cause.

We observe causality as inherent in our universe. Outside of our universe, we can’t say anything with any certainty.
 
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