Can music be a sin?

[ValiantDomain]

I agree partially with the first part of what you said. Me buying for example a black metal album might be interpreted by the record companies that I approve this kind of behavior. Of course this is not true so I’m not claiming it.

When you however mention God I have to disagree completely. Since I neither approve nor recommend this kind of behavior then all-knowing God cannot misinterpret my behavior to be such.

Of course this argument doesn’t apply to a teenager who got his albums from a friend (because we all know there are many people like that).

If you agree that it’s best not to buy these kind of albums as not to condone this behavior at a corporate level, then it seems rather silly not to agree on the point about God - for what other reason should we *not *condone this behavior at any level?

While it is true that God is aware of our intent, I’m not sure how we can completely justify ourself before the Lord when we consciously buy an explicit lyric album titled “God Hates Us All” and claim our intent was “for the music, not the lyrics.” I think the old tried and true method is highly applicable in this instance: *Would you buy this album if Jesus were standing with you? *Sure, any fundamentalist might apply the WWJD method in order to say that even albums by Coldplay should be considered reprobate - but, lucky for us (or, at least, me), we’re not fundamentalists.

See, but that brings me again the the question: “why?”. It is probably not be suitable for a child who might be influenced and who doesn’t have the ability to distinguish between good and evil. I however cannot find a reason or evidence why it would be sinful for an adult whose ideology and believes are totally contrary with those found in the band’s song (and who doesn’t feel influenced by them of course) to listen to the band if he likes the music (as opposed to liking the lyrics).

No doubt this music is unsuitable for children who are in the process of mental and spiritual development as individuals! However, just because adults have achieved a certain level of mental and spiritual development, does that make us any less prone to err or any less suceptible to outside influence? I may very well be a good Catholic Christian who devotes myself to Mary and prays constantly to Jesus, but if all I’m listening to is Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails, surely my mood and my overall mindset will be affected. Why risk it?

 

[McKevin]

Is it a sin to listen to music such as Rob Zombie? I listen to him and what about music that uses the Lord’s name in vain?

There’s a great Bible verse that can be applied to questions like this: 1 Thess. 5:21 “Test everything. Retain what is good.”

Even as a holiness protestant young adult it was OK to me that I bought Guns-N-Rose’s albums but “skipped” the “bad” songs. As for music that takes God’s name in vain - I stay away from them unless you can find an “edited for radio version of the song”. I stay away from them even if the song is awesome, like the Eagles “Life in the Fast Lane”, I love that tune but it does take God’s name in vain in the last verse and so I simply don’t listen to it

Test everything. Retain what is good.

Peace.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

If you agree that it’s best not to buy these kind of albums as not to condone this behavior at a corporate level, then it seems rather silly not to agree on the point about God - for what other reason should we not condone this behavior at any level?

I did not mean that I agree that that’s the best. All is that it may be interpreted this way. Now, I’m not saying the opposite either. To be honest with you I actually don’t know. It’s a good question and I will look deeper into it.

While it is true that God is aware of our intent, I’m not sure how we can completely justify ourself before the Lord when we consciously buy an explicit lyric album titled “God Hates Us All” and claim our intent was “for the music, not the lyrics.” I think the old tried and true method is highly applicable in this instance: Would you buy this album if Jesus were standing with you? Sure, any fundamentalist might apply the WWJD method in order to say that even albums by Coldplay should be considered reprobate - but, lucky for us (or, at least, me), we’re not fundamentalists.

Interesting way to looks at it. Really.

You might be right and it surely made me thinking. On the other hand to what extend is this a good method since it can be applied to almost anything. And at the same time, to what extend is it myself trying to desperately justify what I’m doing? I don’t know.

Now, as I mentioned before, say I get the music from my friend. Is that OK now? Or is bad really mainly because of the fact that I’m listening to it and the fact that I’m theoretically supporting the industry is pretty much secondary?

Another question I have…is it sinful or simply…well…something shouldn’t be recommended?

However, just because adults have achieved a certain level of mental and spiritual development, does that make us any less prone to err or any less suceptible to outside influence? I may very well be a good Catholic Christian who devotes myself to Mary and prays constantly to Jesus, but if all I’m listening to is Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails, surely my mood and my overall mindset will be affected. Why risk it?

I don’t think that my mindset is being effected. Of course I’m not listening to the mentioned music all the time. I usually listen to anything from Carmina Burana by Carl Off or the Gladiator Soundtrack to extreme metal.

That being said, I’m not too convinced that it would effect me in any major way if I would be listening to it all the time. I would probably just get annoyed by it.

Thank you for discussing this with me. I think I might even ask my priest about that.

Cheers

 

[ValiantDomain]

Interesting way to looks at it. Really.

You might be right and it surely made me thinking. On the other hand to what extend is this a good method since it can be applied to almost anything. And at the same time, to what extend is it myself trying to desperately justify what I’m doing? I don’t know.

Now, as I mentioned before, say I get the music from my friend. Is that OK now? Or is bad really mainly because of the fact that I’m listening to it and the fact that I’m theoretically supporting the industry is pretty much secondary?

Another question I have…is it sinful or simply…well…something shouldn’t be recommended?

One thing I **do **like about Islam is its categorization of “sins”: there is *haram *(forbidden), *makruh *(reprehensible), etc. It’s not all black and white.

If we can agree that a good definition of sin is “any transgression of divine law,” then we should be able to determine if buying an explicit lyric album entitled “God Hates Us All” is in direct violation of divine law. As our basis for divine law, let’s (at the minimum) use the Ten Commandments as our model. So, by purchasing, or listening to an album, titled "God Hates Us All, are we transgressing any of the Ten Commandments? Have murdered? No. Have we stolen? No. Have we coveted our neighbor’s property? No. In fact, we seem to be in the clear of 9 out of 10 Commandments - the one which we’re not totally absent of is the 2nd Commandment: *“You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.” * (emphasis mine) The Catechism says concerning this:

Among all the words of Revelation, there is one which is unique: the revealed name of God. God confides his name to those who believe in him; he reveals himself to them in his personal mystery. The gift of a name belongs to the order of trust and intimacy. “The Lord’s name is holy.” For this reason man must not abuse it. He must keep it in mind in silent, loving adoration. He will not introduce it into his own speech except to bless, praise, and glorify it. (CCC 2143)

Blasphemy is directly opposed to the second commandment. It consists in uttering against God - inwardly or outwardly - words of hatred, reproach, or defiance; in speaking ill of God; in failing in respect toward him in one’s speech; in misusing God’s name. St. James condemns those "who blaspheme that honorable name [of Jesus] by which you are called."78 The prohibition of blasphemy extends to language against Christ’s Church, the saints, and sacred things. It is also blasphemous to make use of God’s name to cover up criminal practices, to reduce peoples to servitude, to torture persons or put them to death. The misuse of God’s name to commit a crime can provoke others to repudiate religion. (CCC 2148)

By these definitions offered by the Catechism, the musicians are definitely in direct violation of God’s Law. Are we any less culpable for supporting this music?

What if you receive these discs from a friend? Are we any less culpable then? For one, you shouldn’t accept the discs, if you are conscious as to what they contain. This is where, why, and how Christ calls us to witness to the faith.

 

[jjb5985]

If you agree that it’s best not to buy these kind of albums as not to condone this behavior at a corporate level, then it seems rather silly not to agree on the point about God - for what other reason should we *not *condone this behavior at any level?

While it is true that God is aware of our intent, I’m not sure how we can completely justify ourself before the Lord when we consciously buy an explicit lyric album titled “God Hates Us All” and claim our intent was “for the music, not the lyrics.” I think the old tried and true method is highly applicable in this instance: *Would you buy this album if Jesus were standing with you? *Sure, any fundamentalist might apply the WWJD method in order to say that even albums by Coldplay should be considered reprobate - but, lucky for us (or, at least, me), we’re not fundamentalists.

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2005/07/bad_music.html

To answer the question, yes, music can be sinful just like anything else if it is an occasion of sin for you. Either immediately or in the long run. Otherwise, I’m not sure music that is listened to purely for the musical value without paying attention to the lyrics can be considered instrinsically sinful. I could be wrong, but thats what I got out of the Jimmy Akin link. For instance, if you buy the music used and don’t directly give the artist anymore money, and then you don’t even notice what the lyrics are saying and therefore they don’t have any effect on you, I can’t see where the problem would be.

As far as if Jesus was standing next to me, I can think of quite a few things that aren’t sinful that I wouldn’t do if Jesus was standing next to me. That approach may have some merit, but it isn’t a full proof system, especially for a scrupulous person.

 

[ValiantDomain]

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2005/07/bad_music.html

To answer the question, yes, music can be sinful just like anything else if it is an occasion of sin for you. Either immediately or in the long run. Otherwise, I’m not sure music that is listened to purely for the musical value without paying attention to the lyrics can be considered instrinsically sinful. I could be wrong, but thats what I got out of the Jimmy Akin link. For instance, if you buy the music used and don’t directly give the artist anymore money, and then you don’t even notice what the lyrics are saying and therefore they don’t have any effect on you, I can’t see where the problem would be.

As far as if Jesus was standing next to me, I can think of quite a few things that aren’t sinful that I wouldn’t do if Jesus was standing next to me. That approach may have some merit, but it isn’t a full proof system, especially for a scrupulous person.

No doubt *all *music could be considered sinful if you nitpick every final detail - however, you can’t tell me that a four year old violin virtuoso doesn’t have a God-given talent!

What I got from the Jimmy Akin link is that listening to bad music depends purely on a person’s disposition. With this, I do agree. The example he gives is a pretty standard case:

You have a very nice CD on hand, whose music you know you would enjoy and that would provide you the recreation you need, but you also happen to know that a couple of the songs on the CD have bad words in them and one is a song implying conjugal relations between a couple whose marital status is Not At All Clear.

This is honestly the case of most pop/rock music today, and so any music lover would find it difficult to avoid situations like these; however, if listening to songs like these causes a person to reasonably assume that sinful actions are appropriate, such as pre-marital sex, profanity, etc., then it would be best not to listen to such music. I agree with Jimmy Akin, though: this is a slippery slope. At what point does a person recognize temptation? Music does sink into the subconscious, and no matter how hard we think we are ignoring the lyrics, we must face the fact that the lyrics are, in fact, present and are, also, being heard and received by our mind.

Jimmy Akin’s process for listening to certain music is, on the one hand, nice…but, on the other hand, it’s quite silly. This morning, for instance, after waking up I decided to put on some Nick Drake without even considering what the lyrics were, what the lyrics insinuated, how the lyrics might tempt me, etc. Why? For one, because it’s Nick Drake and I’ve heard the lyrics before and wasn’t frightened by what they contain. However, if all I had lying around was an explicit lyric CD by any artist then I’d definitely give second thoughts to listening to any music at all. Why? To paraphrase Jimmy Akin: to manage the risk of temptation. If I don’t personally feel the music will affect me, then I might decide to listen (even though I’m placing myself in a considerably more risky position)…

…but if I can assume that the lyrics contain any references to taking the Lord’s name in vain, then my previous post answers that head on, I think.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

No doubt all music could be considered sinful if you nitpick every final detail - however, you can’t tell me that a four year old violin virtuoso doesn’t have a God-given talent!

What I got from the Jimmy Akin link is that listening to bad music depends purely on a person’s disposition. With this, I do agree. The example he gives is a pretty standard case:

You have a very nice CD on hand, whose music you know you would enjoy and that would provide you the recreation you need, but you also happen to know that a couple of the songs on the CD have bad words in them and one is a song implying conjugal relations between a couple whose marital status is Not At All Clear.

This is honestly the case of most pop/rock music today, and so any music lover would find it difficult to avoid situations like these; however, if listening to songs like these causes a person to reasonably assume that sinful actions are appropriate, such as pre-marital sex, profanity, etc., then it would be best not to listen to such music. I agree with Jimmy Akin, though: this is a slippery slope. At what point does a person recognize temptation? Music does sink into the subconscious, and no matter how hard we think we are ignoring the lyrics, we must face the fact that the lyrics are, in fact, present and are, also, being heard and received by our mind.

Jimmy Akin’s process for listening to certain music is, on the one hand, nice…but, on the other hand, it’s quite silly. This morning, for instance, after waking up I decided to put on some Nick Drake without even considering what the lyrics were, what the lyrics insinuated, how the lyrics might tempt me, etc. Why? For one, because it’s Nick Drake and I’ve heard the lyrics before and wasn’t frightened by what they contain. However, if all I had lying around was an explicit lyric CD by any artist then I’d definitely give second thoughts to listening to any music at all. Why? To paraphrase Jimmy Akin: to manage the risk of temptation. If I don’t personally feel the music will affect me, then I might decide to listen (even though I’m placing myself in a considerably more risky position)…

…but if I can assume that the lyrics contain any references to taking the Lord’s name in vain, then my previous post answers that head on, I think.

I very much agree and that’s how I go around it. I probably wouldn’t listen to a music full of sex because I know that would tempt me. On the other hand a some music with violent/explicit etc. lyrics I listen to just doesn’t tempt me a) because I really disagree with them (I CERTAINLY wouldn’t even consider killing someone because of a song)** b)** I don’t mostly listen to lyrics and in many cases it is impossible.

I’m not sure how we can completely justify yourself before the Lord when we consciously buy an explicit lyric album titled “God Hates Us All”

In addition I forgot to mention that I skip songs that clearly take God’s name in vein. It’s not because I believe that listening to them is sinful. It is rather because I don’t feel comfortable listening to it. It’s the same as listening to a song that insults my family for example.

 

[ValiantDomain]

In addition I forgot to mention that I skip songs that clearly take God’s name in vein. It’s not because I believe that listening to them is sinful. It is rather because I don’t feel comfortable listening to it. It’s the same as listening to a song that insults my family for example.

Exactly. In a way, it almost makes you feel like an accessory to a crime.

You’ve got to consider: I’ve got friends who use profanity. I don’t like it when they use it, but as a pastor once told me, “I can’t control what they say. All I can do is not do it myself.” The exact same could be applied to music. We just need to know where to draw the line. For each of us, though, that’s different. For me, for example, since lust is my big character flaw, I really try to stay away from music with sexual themes - it doesn’t mean I always can, but I try to make conscious efforts not to myself in situations of temptation, as the Jimmy Akin article talks about. We have to ask ourselves on a frequent basis, “What is my mental disposition?”

 

[jjb5985]

No doubt *all *music could be considered sinful if you nitpick every final detail - however, you can’t tell me that a four year old violin virtuoso doesn’t have a God-given talent!

What I got from the Jimmy Akin link is that listening to bad music depends purely on a person’s disposition. With this, I do agree. The example he gives is a pretty standard case:

You have a very nice CD on hand, whose music you know you would enjoy and that would provide you the recreation you need, but you also happen to know that a couple of the songs on the CD have bad words in them and one is a song implying conjugal relations between a couple whose marital status is Not At All Clear.

This is honestly the case of most pop/rock music today, and so any music lover would find it difficult to avoid situations like these; however, if listening to songs like these causes a person to reasonably assume that sinful actions are appropriate, such as pre-marital sex, profanity, etc., then it would be best not to listen to such music. I agree with Jimmy Akin, though: this is a slippery slope. At what point does a person recognize temptation? Music does sink into the subconscious, and no matter how hard we think we are ignoring the lyrics, we must face the fact that the lyrics are, in fact, present and are, also, being heard and received by our mind.

Jimmy Akin’s process for listening to certain music is, on the one hand, nice…but, on the other hand, it’s quite silly. This morning, for instance, after waking up I decided to put on some Nick Drake without even considering what the lyrics were, what the lyrics insinuated, how the lyrics might tempt me, etc. Why? For one, because it’s Nick Drake and I’ve heard the lyrics before and wasn’t frightened by what they contain. However, if all I had lying around was an explicit lyric CD by any artist then I’d definitely give second thoughts to listening to any music at all. Why? To paraphrase Jimmy Akin: to manage the risk of temptation. If I don’t personally feel the music will affect me, then I might decide to listen (even though I’m placing myself in a considerably more risky position)…

…but if I can assume that the lyrics contain any references to taking the Lord’s name in vain, then my previous post answers that head on, I think.

Yes, I think the point is whether it is an occasion of sin either immediately or over the course of time. This is one of those situations where I think the answer is “it depends”. Not only with various people, but also various situations. I myself being a musician would be limiting myself if I were to only listen to the music that I can find absolutely no fault with. Luckily I’m strong enough in my faith that I can hear a song with a bad message, and not likely be influenced by it. Other songs that are non-stop sexual references or something I would avoid as it would be near impossible for it not to affect me at least in my immediate thoughts. Whereas a song that has just some cuss words would have virtually no negative effect on me as it would be nothing I wouldn’t hear in day to day life anyways. Still other songs I can tune out the lyrics all together and they really make no difference. At least not to the point that I would be a different person for having listened. So it is up to the individual to decide what is prudent to listen to.