Can Muslims address the misogyny in the Qu'ran?

[mariahloves]

Hi I was curious about the Islamic view on women and discovered some Qu’ran verses which seem misogynist, and I was wondering if a Muslim could help defend and explain them. I’m not totally ignorant of Islam but I don’t know enough to form a proper opinion of your religion. I’m not looking for you to compare the Bible and Islam. I don’t care about the nijab, hijab, or burqa. Just what the Qu’ran states.

Here are the verses in question, I got these from a Christian website (full disclosure) they state this “All quotes from the Qur’an are from Yusuf Ali and can be found at the Qur’an online.” so I believe these are all accurate:

“If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice” (4:3)

Why is it men can have four wives but women may only have one?

“Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children’s (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half” (4:11)

Why do women get less inheritance than men?

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)” (4:34)

What is meant by the title “maintainer”? What does it mean for a woman to be “devoutly obedient” to her husband? And of course, why does Allah allow men to beat their wives?

“In them will be (Maidens), chaste, restraining their glances, whom no man or Jinn before them has touched,” (55:56).
“We have created (their Companions) of special creation. And made them virgin - pure (and undefiled), - Beloved (by nature), equal in age,- For the Companions of the Right Hand,” (56:35-38)
“Verily for the Righteous there will be a fulfillment of (the heart’s) desires; Gardens enclosed, and grapevines, And voluptuous women of equal age,” (78:31-33).

What awaits women in Paradise? Do they get to be the beautiful virgins? Why is Paradise a place of sexual satisfaction for men? Do you find this at all strange?

 

[Mosacked]

Hi I was curious about the Islamic view on women and discovered some Qu’ran verses which seem misogynist, and I was wondering if a Muslim could help defend and explain them. I’m not totally ignorant of Islam but I don’t know enough to form a proper opinion of your religion. I’m not looking for you to compare the Bible and Islam. I don’t care about the nijab, hijab, or burqa. Just what the Qu’ran states.

Here are the verses in question, I got these from a Christian website (full disclosure) they state this “All quotes from the Qur’an are from Yusuf Ali and can be found at the Qur’an online.” so I believe these are all accurate:

“If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice” (4:3)

Why is it men can have four wives but women may only have one?

“Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children’s (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half” (4:11)

Why do women get less inheritance than men?

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)” (4:34)

What is meant by the title “maintainer”? What does it mean for a woman to be “devoutly obedient” to her husband? And of course, why does Allah allow men to beat their wives?

“In them will be (Maidens), chaste, restraining their glances, whom no man or Jinn before them has touched,” (55:56).
“We have created (their Companions) of special creation. And made them virgin - pure (and undefiled), - Beloved (by nature), equal in age,- For the Companions of the Right Hand,” (56:35-38)
“Verily for the Righteous there will be a fulfillment of (the heart’s) desires; Gardens enclosed, and grapevines, And voluptuous women of equal age,” (78:31-33).

What awaits women in Paradise? Do they get to be the beautiful virgins? Why is Paradise a place of sexual satisfaction for men? Do you find this at all strange?

The reward for the muslim woman is either to be one of the 72 houris serving the ‘martyr’, or she gets 72 houri giggolos. …Just kidding.

PS. On a serious note: allah promised its martyr 72 houri virgins which muslims claim are not real women because according to the quran & hadiths, MOST of their real women ARE IN HELL. In other words, allah is supplying love-dolls to muslims after their deaths. Heck, I think these can be bought from your local sex-shop, you don’t have to kill/bomb yourself over it.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

 

[Sam_777]

Why is it men can have four wives but women may only have one?

Why do women get less inheritance than men?

What is meant by the title “maintainer”? What does it mean for a woman to be “devoutly obedient” to her husband? And of course, why does Allah allow men to beat their wives?

What awaits women in Paradise? Do they get to be the beautiful virgins? Why is Paradise a place of sexual satisfaction for men? Do you find this at all strange?

Muslims accept that simply because Allah or/and Muhammed said so…

 

[planten]

marialoves, in order to understand any verse of the Quran, it is better to read it quite a few times. Also to read the few verses before and a few verses after that intended verse. That may be useful to understand the context.

It is mentioned in the Quran and Hadith that no soul knows about the good and beautiful prizes that Allah has kept waiting (hidden) for the people of Jannah (Paradise). No soul has seen or thought or even imagined those good things of the paradise. So we can forget about the honey and milk and ladies (virgins). That point must be remembered at all times about the life of the next world.

Also, as a person dies, his body is left here and his soul is taken and sent ahead to some place. The soul gets a new body made of light (Noor) or smoke. There is some suffering for the wicked soon after his/her death. There is a happy place for the good (God fearing) ones soon after death.

The life of heavens and hell starts here on this earth before death. The life of heavens and hell will be a continuation of this world’s life. Those who are doing good in this world will be happy here too and after death they (their soul) will continue in their happiness. Those who are wicked will be unhappy (spiritually) in this world too. After death their state of mind (soul) will continue to suffer.

But the real suffering or happiness will be manifested only after the day of judgement. At that time, every soul will be rewarded with what it had earned.

Your questions are simple and can be answered very well. But it is better if you enjoy the explanations provided to you by two christian friends. I do not see any other Muslim answering (posting) anything here. So I will also refrain from discussing this topic.

 

[Sam_777]

No soul has seen or thought or even imagined those good things of the paradise.

FYI: Jesus knows about the heavenly things…
(John 3:12):
“I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?”

 

[Mosacked]

It is mentioned in the Quran and Hadith that no soul knows about the good and beautiful prizes that Allah has kept waiting (hidden) for the people of Jannah (Paradise). No soul has seen or thought or even imagined those good things of the paradise. So we can forget about the honey and milk and ladies (virgins). That point must be remembered at all times about the life of the next world.

…and planten, you will never know. Not now nor in the life after.

 

[adstrinity]

Well, I’d like to know, from the Muslims here. What is the context of all the verses above?

 

[mariahloves]

Planten it does say in the Qu’ran that in heaven there will be fair virgins with wide eyes…so I don’t really understand what you’re saying.

 

[planten]

To adstrinity and mariahloves, may I mention that there is so much in the Quran. Allah had to describe the things of the Quran by some names which we could understand. So He mentioned the virgins and beutiful partners. There is milk and honey and fruits also mentioned.

But please remember that the pleasures of the next world of paradise are all spiritual. Nothing material. I hope you will agree. I will come back soon.

 

[elwill]

Hi I was curious about the Islamic view on women and discovered some Qu’ran verses which seem misogynist, and I was wondering if a Muslim could help defend and explain them. I’m not totally ignorant of Islam but I don’t know enough to form a proper opinion of your religion. I’m not looking for you to compare the Bible and Islam. I don’t care about the nijab, hijab, or burqa. Just what the Qu’ran states.

Here are the verses in question, I got these from a Christian website (full disclosure) they state this “All quotes from the Qur’an are from Yusuf Ali and can be found at the Qur’an online.” so I believe these are all accurate:

“If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice” (4:3)

Why is it men can have four wives but women may only have one?

The verse of the chapter in question talks about restricting the number of wives to be only 2, or 3, or maximum 4, and even then with more limitations.
before accusing quran to be misogyny , you have to know that All of this comes at a time when there were no restrictions or limitations on the number of wives or the treatment of women in general. You see, women were in very bad shape back then. All around the world women were suffering at the hands of men.

as for example
Men would bury their new-born baby girls in the desert sands – alive? This was out of shame for having something so low, instead of a son.

· Women were treated with horrible disgust.

· Men had no limit on the number of wives they could have.

· There were no laws protecting women and they had no rights at all.
etc

now read the verse from Quran we have been discussing (4:3) very carefully about having more than one wife.

What does it say? And what do you understand from it?

First of all, the men had to divorce their wives, if they had more than four. So this was not an order to go out and get four wives. It was an order to begin limitations.

And the first limitation was; No more than four.

Second, consider the limitation of equal treatment for all of them. How could a man keep more than one wife unless he was exceedingly wealthy and/or exceedingly strong and virile?

Next, the limitation very clearly states; “… but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them) then only one …”

“Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children’s (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half” (4:11)

Why do women get less inheritance than men?

actually ,In Islam, there are three other cases regarding inheritance:

1. Women inherit as much as men.
2. Women inherit more than men.
3. Women inherit while men don’t.

when women inherit less than men, it may sound unfair to you, but let me explain the responsibility of men and women in Islam through the following example.

If a person dies leaving 150,000 dollars and a son and a daughter, the son gets 100,000 and the daughter only 50,000. There are two scenarios that may happen after this inheritance is distributed.

One is that both of them may get married. In Islam, the man pays the bridal money or dower gift to the bride. So the son will spend about 25,000 and the daughter will receive the same amount. Now both of them have 75,000.

Then after marriage the husband is responsible for the household expenses, while the wife keeps her money.

The husband is solely responsible for everything, while the wife is not required to pay a single penny. However, if she decides to help her husband, this will be considered as an act of charity.

The second scenario is that they don’t get married, or the son marries and the daughter does not. Even if the daughter in the above example remains unmarried, her brother is obligated by Islam to be financially responsible for her.

If the woman is not married, still her male relatives have the responsibility to spend on her. If she is a mother, it is her son’s responsibility; if she is a daughter, it is her father’s responsibility; if she is a sister, it is her brother’s responsibility.

Even if she has no male relatives, according to Islamic teachings, the society as a whole has the responsibility to provide for such a woman.

Islam is about perfect justice for both the man and the woman. If the son and the daughter get equal shares, this will be really unjust to the son.

 

[planten]

Thanks elwill, you have described the two questions very well. I only have something to add about the first question.
Why is it men can have four wives but women may only have one (husband??)?

It is impractical for women to have more than one husband. If nothing bad happens (querrels etc) still there is a need to know about geneology of children. If a lady has three or four husbands, she will die attending to those husbands. Moreover, no one will know about the father of the child if there are more than one husband.

In the case of a man having more than one wife, both the mother and the fathe rof the child are well known. If a woman has more than one husband then only the mother will be known. The fathe rof the child will not be known.

That would be a serious flaw in the system.

I hope that elwill will continue responding to the other questions too.

 

[dolphinlove]

The verse of the chapter in question talks about restricting the number of wives to be only 2, or 3, or maximum 4, and even then with more limitations.
before accusing quran to be misogyny , you have to know that All of this comes at a time when there were no restrictions or limitations on the number of wives or the treatment of women in general. You see, women were in very bad shape back then. All around the world women were suffering at the hands of men.

mat 19
3 Some Pharisees approached him, and to put him to the test they said, ‘Is it against the Law for a man to divorce his wife on any pretext whatever?’
4 He answered, ‘Have you not read that the Creator from the beginning made them male and female
5 and that he said: This is why a man leaves his father and mother and becomes attached to his wife, and the two become one flesh?
6 They are no longer two, therefore, but one flesh. So then, what God has united, human beings must not divide.’

Your claims that there were no laws for one man one woman is not correct, it clearly states in the bible that God intended for one man and one woman are to become one flesh. That means only one man and one woman is only to be to be in a marriage, not 2, 3 or 4 other wives!

as for example
Men would bury their new-born baby girls in the desert sands – alive? This was out of shame for having something so low, instead of a son.

· Women were treated with horrible disgust.

· Men had no limit on the number of wives they could have.

· There were no laws protecting women and they had no rights at all.
etc

Jesus taught us on many occasions that women are to be treated equally, a good example of this is the way he treated his mother and the way he treated Mary Magdalene. The way ‘some’ men treated women in those days obviously did not follow Jesus’ teachings, or women would have been treated with more respect.
However, i could point out in the quran/hadith further to show women are disrespected and are not treated as fairly as men, but we all know those ones

now read the verse from Quran we have been discussing (4:3) very carefully about having more than one wife.

What does it say? And what do you understand from it?

First of all, the men had to divorce their wives, if they had more than four. So this was not an order to go out and get four wives. It was an order to begin limitations.

And the first limitation was; No more than four.

Second, consider the limitation of equal treatment for all of them. How could a man keep more than one wife unless he was exceedingly wealthy and/or exceedingly strong and virile?

At the end of the day, there is still a lot of men married to more than one woman, esp in sharia countries.
Secondly, with the ease of divorce in islam, and the fact that you can get married again as many times as you like causes many problems.

1. If a husband and wife have a child, get divorced, woman gets married again, child gets new step father. Muslims commonly give the western world a hard time for these things, saying how many broken families there are etc, when islam laws allow these things to happen! The only difference is you get married. In Christianity, its very hard to get a divorce which encourages a man and women to work at their marriage, hence the family unit remains intact, which is what God wants, not the ease of divorce like islam allows.
2. Spread of STD’s, by having multiple wives, divorcing them, and then they get married again, your sleeping around with multiple partners which in turn, helps spread the STD’s of today like aids, hiv etc. If God wanted us, at all to have multiple wives and easy divorce, why would he allow these diseases to spread so rapidly?
3. If i thought for one moment my husband was wanting to marry another woman, there is no way i would be able to contain my jealousy. This is why God, again commanded one man one woman law!

Next, the limitation very clearly states; “… but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them) then only one …”

If a person dies leaving 150,000 dollars and a son and a daughter, the son gets 100,000 and the daughter only 50,000. There are two scenarios that may happen after this inheritance is distributed.

One is that both of them may get married. In Islam, the man pays the bridal money or dower gift to the bride. So the son will spend about 25,000 and the daughter will receive the same amount. Now both of them have 75,000.

Then after marriage the husband is responsible for the household expenses, while the wife keeps her money.

The husband is solely responsible for everything, while the wife is not required to pay a single penny. However, if she decides to help her husband, this will be considered as an act of charity.

The second scenario is that they don’t get married, or the son marries and the daughter does not. Even if the daughter in the above example remains unmarried, her brother is obligated by Islam to be financially responsible for her.

If the woman is not married, still her male relatives have the responsibility to spend on her. If she is a mother, it is her son’s responsibility; if she is a daughter, it is her father’s responsibility; if she is a sister, it is her brother’s responsibility.

Even if she has no male relatives, according to Islamic teachings, the society as a whole has the responsibility to provide for such a woman.

Islam is about perfect justice for both the man and the woman. If the son and the daughter get equal shares, this will be really unjust to the son.

Face it, the man is still better off in islam, as women are treated very unfairly…

 

[elwill]

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)” (4:34)

What is meant by the title “maintainer”? What does it mean for a woman to be “devoutly obedient” to her husband? And of course, why does Allah allow men to beat their wives?

This verse neither permits violence nor condones it. It guides us to ways to handle delicate family situation with care and wisdom. The word “beating” is used in the verse, but it does not mean “physical abuse”.

Generally, the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) used to discourage his followers from taking even this measure. He never hit any female, and he used to say that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives. In one Hadith he expressed his extreme repulsion from this behavior and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

"If the problem relates to the wife’s behavior, the husband may exhort her and appeal for reason. In most cases, this measure is likely to be sufficient.
In cases where the problem persists, the husband may express his displeasure in another peaceful manner, by sleeping in a separate bed from hers. There are cases,
however, in which a wife persists in bad habits and showing contempt of her husband and disregard for her marital obligations. Instead of divorce, the husband may resort to another measure that may save the marriage, at least in some cases. Such a measure is more accurately described as a gentle tap on the body, but never on the face, making it more of a symbolic measure than a punitive one.

what is the meaining of maintainer ?
Maintenance entails the wife’s incontestable right to lodging, clothing, nourishing, and general care and well-being.

1-The wife’s residence must be adequate so as to provide her with the reasonable level of privacy, comfort, and independence. The welfare of the wife and the stability of the marriage should be the ultimate goal.

2-What is true of the residence is true of clothing, food, and general care. The wife has the right to be clothed, fed, and cared for by the husband, in accordance with his means and her style of life. These rights are to be exercised without extravagance or miserliness.

What does it mean for a woman to be “devoutly obedient” to her husband?

The main obligation of the wife as a partner in a marital relationship is to contribute to the success and blissfulness of the marriage as much as possible. She must be attentive to the comfort and well-being of her mate. She may neither offend him nor hurt his feelings. Perhaps nothing can illustrate the point better than the Qur’anic statement which describes the righteous people as those who pray saying:
"Our Lord! Grant unto us wives and offspring who will be the joy and the comfort of our eyes, and guide us to be models of righteousness.” (Al-Furqan: 74)

“In them will be (Maidens), chaste, restraining their glances, whom no man or Jinn before them has touched,” (55:56).
“We have created (their Companions) of special creation. And made them virgin - pure (and undefiled), - Beloved (by nature), equal in age,- For the Companions of the Right Hand,” (56:35-38)
“Verily for the Righteous there will be a fulfillment of (the heart’s) desires; Gardens enclosed, and grapevines, And voluptuous women of equal age,” (78:31-33).

What awaits women in Paradise? Do they get to be the beautiful virgins? Why is Paradise a place of sexual satisfaction for men? Do you find this at all strange?

What awaits women in Paradise?
whatever will satisfy them

Do they get to be the beautiful virgins?
yes

Why is Paradise a place of sexual satisfaction for men?
paradise is a place of joyness for both male and female , any kind of joyness even if it was sexual . why it seems shame to you ?

Do you find this at all strange ?
no

 

[adstrinity]

Thank you elwill & planten for putting these verses in context.

 

[dolphinlove]

Thank you elwill & planten for putting these verses in context.

and you think they are fair to women and society in general?

 

[elwill]

Planten it does say in the Qu’ran that in heaven there will be fair virgins with wide eyes…so I don’t really understand what you’re saying.

actually , quran didn’t said "fair virgins with wide eyes " , quran just mentioned this concept “hour-ain” which may have diferent interpretations
you can check the first answer in this site for example

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080728183309AAjl9rP

 

[adstrinity]

and you think they are fair to women and society in general?

 

[jakasaki]

actually , quran didn’t said "fair virgins with wide eyes " , quran just mentioned this concept “hour-ain” which may have diferent interpretations
you can check the first answer in this site for example

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080728183309AAjl9rP

Y!A Elwill… seriously…

I belong to Y!A and the nonsense in the Ramadan section from muslims and also in the R&S section is pathetic…

Please do the right thing and cite Islamic sources and not a bunch of kids on Y!A’s.

 

[elwill]

Y!A Elwill… seriously…

I belong to Y!A and the nonsense in the Ramadan section from muslims and also in the R&S section is pathetic…

Please do the right thing and cite Islamic sources and not a bunch of kids on Y!A’s.

wapedia.mobi/en/Houri

anyway , what is the question you wanna the answers of from islamic sites ?

 

[jakasaki]

wapedia.mobi/en/Houri

anyway , what is the question you wanna the answers of from islamic sites ?

Elwill, I couldn’t care less about your post. All I’m saying is that a poster (mariahloves) posted:

Originally Posted by mariahloves
Planten it does say in the Qu’ran that in heaven there will be fair virgins with wide eyes…so I don’t really understand what you’re saying.

And you reply to Mariah from Y!A.

Address the inquiry and Y!A is not a source of islamic information.