Can my Pastor do this?

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mattkubes

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Or maybe it would be better to say, should he?

I go to a parish built in 1962 that my pastor is considering renovating. When it was built, the original plans called for the Tabernacle to be built off to the side where the baptismal font is, but a Monsignor from the area intervened to make sure that it was placed in the sanctuary, perfectly centred behind the altar.

Jump ahead to about 10 years ago - a visiting Cardinal came and commented about the Tabernacle’s position in the church and how it should be moved from the centre (but it was just as a suggestion, he made that clear). Instead, the priest at the time (now Monsignor) had the Tabernacle reinforced to the floor with concrete and extremely strong metal supports, all invisible under the marble base. I thought that was a beautiful sign of dedication to the Eucharist’s central role in our worship.

Well now with the planned renovations, our pastor would like to make some nice changes; but he is also requiring that is we want any of them to be done, the Tabernacle has to be moved (in the bulletin he even said that it was someone “scruples” that prevented it from being off to the side in the first place…). It seems like entrapment to me. I know that he’s not necessarily wrong in doing this, but the layout of the church works beautifully as it is.

Is he allowed to demand that, if we want renovations done, we have to move the Tabernacle from the centre? Why is there such a move towards this design?
 
Obviously he “can” since priests do this on a regular basis - whether they should or not is a different story altogether.

It does seem to me like a kind of blackmail, as well. I’d just call his bluff; I’d say, “Well, nothing is worth losing Jesus over, so let’s not do the renovations, then - we’ve lived without them for this long, after all.”
 
This is so sad, Matt! I think the priest can move the Tabernacle, but hopefully you (or, better yet, you and a large group of parishioners) can talk him out of it. If the Tabernacle staying in the center behind the altar is more important to you than the renovations, definitely let him know that.
 
Pam_Folbrecht said:
This is so sad, Matt! I think the priest can move the Tabernacle, but hopefully you (or, better yet, you and a large group of parishioners) can talk him out of it. If the Tabernacle staying in the center behind the altar is more important to you than the renovations, definitely let him know that.
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It definitely is more important! And the renovations that he has planned could be nice (including stained glass) - I just have no clue why he’s so insistent that the Tabernacle gets moved when none of the renovations would interfere with it at all. I guess I was just a little shocked by it.

At a time when so many Catholics forget that they are receiving Jesus in the Eucharist, we need every reminder we can get.
 
Pam_Folbrecht said:
I agree completely! Hopefully, he will understand that too!
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Hopefully - the only other issue I’ll have to overcome is that I’m only 22, and he’s not known to take differing opinions lightly. In fact, Lifesite even has quotes from him where he…“voiced off” against a Bishop shall we say? I don’t see why he would take my opinion any more seriously :o
 
I grew up in the 1950’s in a large parish with a small church. The tabernacle was, and still is, in the huge marble altar in the church. Because the parish was large, mass was also said in the school auditorium at some of the same times as the mass in the church. After mass, the priest would take the Blessed Sacrament over to the church. If he passed us in the parking lot we would kneel down.

To me as a child it was significant that, at the beginning of mass Jesus wasn’t sacramentally in the room, but after the consecration He was there.

I don’t mean to hijack this thread, but it is really appropriate that the altar of sacrifice is also the altar of repose? I personally would rather have the tabernacle in a chapel where people come to adore Jesus outside of mass. The altar in the main part of the church would be the place the people gather to celebrate the sacrifice and sacrament.

Looked at this way, the priest would not be ‘moving the tabernacle out of the way’.

This isn’t to denigrate your feelings about having the tabernacle front and center in the church. Just another point of view.
 
Claire_from_DE said:
I grew up in the 1950’s in a large parish with a small church. The tabernacle was, and still is, in the huge marble altar in the church. Because the parish was large, mass was also said in the school auditorium at some of the same times as the mass in the church. After mass, the priest would take the Blessed Sacrament over to the church. If he passed us in the parking lot we would kneel down.
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Wow, what an awesome image - I can’t believe we’ve gone from this to people on YouTube desecrating the Eucharist just to prove a point.
I don’t mean to hijack this thread, but it is really appropriate that the altar of sacrifice is also the altar of repose? I personally would rather have the tabernacle in a chapel where people come to adore Jesus outside of mass. The altar in the main part of the church would be the place the people gather to celebrate the sacrifice and sacrament.
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It’s the same way in the Cathedral I just visited in Quebec City, and I really liked that setup - but that’s not what my priest is thinking. He would actually just move it off to the side where the baptismal font is. It would literally be a horizontal move of about 20 feet…so still in the main body of the church, but just moved away from the centre (and our priest’s chair put in the Tabernacle’s place).

That’s why I’m so confused…if he was moving it to a chapel for the purpose of worship, I think that would be different. But it seems like he just doesn’t want the Tabernacle at the centre of the sanctuary anymore. If the Eucharist is the source and summit of our worship…why move Him from His place of honour?

Not to mention how difficult it’s going to be to move all that concrete and reinforced steel 😉
 
There was a document (I cannot remember the name) that was released a few years that addressed a long list of abuses. If I recall correctly, that document stated that the tabernacle should remain in the center behind the altar. Can anyone help out my bad memory on this?
 
rpp said:
There was a document (I cannot remember the name) that was released a few years that addressed a long list of abuses. If I recall correctly, that document stated that the tabernacle should remain in the center behind the altar. Can anyone help out my bad memory on this?
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I don’t know about a document, but my pastor and I have discussed this at length. He is in total agreement with the previous post about seperating the altar of sacrifice from the altar of repose (tabernacle). It does make sense.

However, because of the strong feelings of the parish he has left in at the rear center of the main altar area.
 
mattkubes said:
If the Eucharist is the source and summit of our worship…why move Him from His place of honour?
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Is “the Eucharist” sitting in the tabernacle the source and summit of our worship?

Or is it the reception of the Eucharist that is the source and summit, or is it the *consecration/sacrifice *of the Eucharsit the source and summit?
 
ethelzguy said:
Is “the Eucharist” sitting in the tabernacle the source and summit of our worship?

Or is it the reception of the Eucharist that is the source and summit, or is it the *consecration/sacrifice *of the Eucharist the source and summit?
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The Church states the the Eucharist is the source and summit of our face, not the reception of it.
 
The document I was looking for is called Redemptionis Sacramentum. Here is what it has to say.
[130.] “According to the structure of each church building and in accordance with legitimate local customs, the Most Holy Sacrament is to be reserved in a tabernacle in a part of the church that is noble, prominent, readily visible, and adorned in a dignified manner” and furthermore “suitable for prayer” by reason of the quietness of the location, the space available in front of the tabernacle, and also the supply of benches or seats and kneelers.[221] In addition, diligent attention should be paid to all the prescriptions of the liturgical books and to the norm of law,[222] especially as regards the avoidance of the danger of profanation.[223]
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So putting the Eucharist off to the side in the back of the church, some hidden cubby or a separate room is not appropriate. If it is behind the altar, the pews and the kneelers satisfy the requirement for seats and kneelers.

The document does not say behind the altar, however that has been the traditional location. In order to perform the Extraordinary for of the Mass, the Tabernacle needs to be behind the altar. Thus, one would question the motives in trying to move the Tabernacle in light of Summinorm Pontificum.
 
ethelzguy said:
I don’t know about a document, but my pastor and I have discussed this at length. He is in total agreement with the previous post about seperating the altar of sacrifice from the altar of repose (tabernacle). It does make sense.
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In theory, I do agree with this. But I think this situation is a little unique. I drew a quick diagram (sad I know haha) of my parish, because I think it’s a slightly “unique” shape (the big empty spot at the back is where the choir loft, complete with pipe organ, hangs). So the Tabernacle is where the blue dot is now, and my priest wants to move it to where the red dot is.

I think if we were building a separate chapel where people could more intimately worhsip Christ in the Eucharist, that would be different. As it is, we’d still just go into the main body of the church - but instead of being able to sit in any pew (ok the diagram is a little off, but we can sit anywhere and see the tabernacle as it is), we’d basically all move off to one side. I guess I just don’t see the point.
 
rpp said:
The document does not say behind the altar, however that has been the traditional location. In order to perform the Extraordinary for of the Mass, the Tabernacle needs to be behind the altar. Thus, one would question the motives in trying to move the Tabernacle in light of Summinorm Pontificum.
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That’s a good point - and our parish has traditionally been used by some Eastern Catholics for their liturgy as well. Somehow I ended up going once and the priest faces the Tabernacle…I wonder if they have moved to a different church? Mind you, we only have two Catholic churches in my city, which is sad when you consider that it has a population of 130,000.

But I guess I don’t have to tell you where my pastor stands in his willingness to offer the EF of the Mass 😉
 
ethelzguy said:
Is “the Eucharist” sitting in the tabernacle the source and summit of our worship?

Or is it the reception of the Eucharist that is the source and summit, or is it the *consecration/sacrifice *of the Eucharsit the source and summit?
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The Eucharist in the tabernacle is the source and summit of our worship…the reception is NOT the source and summit; that is a heretical, Lutheran idea, Ethelzguy. 😉
 
… If the Tabernacle staying in the center behind the altar is more important to you than the renovations…

Or, as our priest calls it “Wreckovation”
 
Psalter said:
The Eucharist in the tabernacle is the source and summit of our worship…the reception is NOT the source and summit; that is a heretical, Lutheran idea, Ethelzguy. 😉
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I think it is the celebration of the Eucharist (the Mass or DL) that is the source and summit of our worship. Joining ourselves to Jesus’ sacrifice in the mass is our highest worship of the Father.
 
mattkubes said:
In theory, I do agree with this. But I think this situation is a little unique. I drew a quick diagram (sad I know haha) of my parish, because I think it’s a slightly “unique” shape (the big empty spot at the back is where the choir loft, complete with pipe organ, hangs). So the Tabernacle is where the blue dot is now, and my priest wants to move it to where the red dot is.

I think if we were building a separate chapel where people could more intimately worhsip Christ in the Eucharist, that would be different. As it is, we’d still just go into the main body of the church - but instead of being able to sit in any pew (ok the diagram is a little off, but we can sit anywhere and see the tabernacle as it is), we’d basically all move off to one side. I guess I just don’t see the point.
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Now that I see the layout of your church, I agree with your evaluation of the situation.
 
rpp said:
The document I was looking for is called Redemptionis Sacramentum. Here is what it has to say.
Quote:
[130.] “According to the structure of each church building and in accordance with legitimate local customs, the Most Holy Sacrament is to be reserved in a tabernacle in a part of the church that is noble, prominent, readily visible, and adorned in a dignified manner” and furthermore “suitable for prayer” by reason of the quietness of the location, the space available in front of the tabernacle, and also the supply of benches or seats and kneelers.[221] In addition, diligent attention should be paid to all the prescriptions of the liturgical books and to the norm of law,[222] especially as regards the avoidance of the danger of profanation.[223]

So putting the Eucharist off to the side in the back of the church, some hidden cubby or a separate room is not appropriate. If it is behind the altar, the pews and the kneelers satisfy the requirement for seats and kneelers.

The document does not say behind the altar, however that has been the traditional location. In order to perform the Extraordinary for of the Mass, the Tabernacle needs to be behind the altar. Thus, one would question the motives in trying to move the Tabernacle in light of Summinorm Pontificum.
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Unfortunately, most churches I know are quite noisy before and especially after mass. Not at all conducive to prayer. This is a scandal. I hate to see it.

BTW, the EF doesn’t require the tabernacle to be behind the altar.
 
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