Can non-Catholics explain what the Rosary focuses on?

[Jeanette_L]

So, it would appear that the “unreasonable argument” you’ve adduced is not even mine…

Sorry, it is the “unreasonable argument” I have heard for many, many years and used to believe it myself without thinking too much about it. When you put it down in response to Joshua b, I did in fact, assume it was one you were trying to make.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Lately I’ve been spending 5 decades meditating on each mystery rather than just one - seems to be a good way for me to go deeper into each one. I can take anywhere from about 20 to 25 minutes to say a Rosary (not that I’ve got a stopwatch by me) - that includes the beginning prayers and a Memorare and Prayer to St Michael at the end.

That’s a really great idea. You know what they say, you only get out of it what you put into it!

I’ve really been getting into the Stations of the Cross lately too. I have it on a CD and I find it very moving. (I know this is off topic ). These scriptural meditations are just so new to me and I’m falling in love with them. Sometimes I can’t make up my mind which one to get into!

But, I love your idea about spending more time on one mystery and actually using your beads to that end. Brilliant, you are!

 

[Lampo]

You must send away for his tapes. They tell an interesting story of what led him to the priesthood and to Our Lord.
Do you have the television station EWTN? He is on there every night at 8:00 Eastern time.

Why not??

$$$

 

[bella5110]

$$$

Oh, I’m sorry, but cable isn’t very expensive here in my area.

 

[Sixtus]

THE ANNUNCIATION -Spiritual Fruit: Humility

THE VISITATION -Spiritual Fruit: Love of Neighbor

THE NATIVITY -Spiritual Fruit: Poverty of Spirit

THE PRESENTATION -Spiritual Fruit: Purity of mind and body

THE FINDING OF JESUS IN THE TEMPLE -Spiritual Fruit: Obedience

The luminous mysteries foucuses on:

THE BAPTISM OF THE CHRIST-Spiritual Fruit: Gratitude for the gift of Faith

CHRIST MIRACLE AT THE WEDDING OF CANA -Spiritual Fruit: Fidelity

THE PROCLAMATION OF THE KINGDOM -Spiritual Fruit: Desire for Holiness

THE TRANSFIGURATION OF CHRIST -Spiritual Fruit: Spiritual Courage

THE INSTITUTION OF THE EUCHARIST (LAST SUPPER)

Spiritual Fruit: Love of our Eucharistic Lord

The Sorrowful Mysteries

THE AGONY IN THE GARDEN Spiritual Fruit: God’s Will be done

THE SCOURGING AT THE PILLAR -Spiritual Fruit: Mortification of the senses

THE CROWNING WITH THORNS -Spiritual Fruit: Reign of Christ in our heart

THE CARRYING OF THE CROSS -Spiritual Fruit: Patient bearing of trials

THE CRUCIFIXION - Spiritual Fruit: Pardoning of Injuries

The Glorius Mysteries

THE RESURRECTION -Spiritual Fruit: Faith

THE ASCENSION -Spiritual Fruit: Christian Hope

THE DESCENT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT -Spiritual Fruit: Gifts of the Holy Spirit

THE ASSUMPTION -Spiritual Fruit: To Jesus through Mary

THE CORONATION -Spiritual Fruit: Grace of Final Perseverance

My dear Jonfan, I think you neglected to point out that in addition to meditating and praying on the above, another VITAL component [least for me anyhow], is to not only engage with the mystery but to actually ‘be there experiencing the event’. In that way, I have [through the power of the Holy Spirit] witnessed [almost like a vision, except that I am not a visionary and anyone can do it-I think!] actually become ‘a player in the event’, to see things never seen by our generation.

Praise God, it brings one awesomely close to the most significant events in the Lord’s life.

Usually though, one becomes bound up with such strong emotion one is witnessing only through tear soaked eyes. It is then that the Holy Spirit begins to really engage with us.

That I have found is a very powerful time to intercede for others. It seems that prayers are ALWAYS answered when one is engaged with God, in such powerful emotions

 

[Sixtus]

Jonfan, ever done Stations of the Cross in the spirit of the Rosary?

Boy is it powerful. Again, to witness the event is a very powerful experience. It is also very humbling. One wants to stop the tragic procession and offer oneself in the Lords place.

How aware I become of my own sinful sin-sodden self and what a pathetic scarlet wretch I am. But whenever I ask the Lord why, He always says ‘because I love you, that is why’!

 

[JimO]

My point was that it’s a bit disengenuous to say,

Steadfast, frankly, I don’t like being called disingenous (it’s spelled with an “i”), which means, in case you don’t know, to be “insincere, untruthful, hypocritical, deceitful, or dishonest.” Please specify which of these insults you intended so that I can address it directly.

 

[JimO]

Hang on, let me check my Bible for the part that says, “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and in the hour of our death.”

This kind of sarcastic statement is hardly worthy of your signature line Steadfast.

Setting aside the debate about whether those who are in heaven can pray for us, are you objecting to asking for someone to pray for you?

 

[Steadfast]

The actual definition of “Disingenuous” (and thanks for the spelling correction) is “not straightforward or candid; giving a false appearance of frankness”.

I said this because you seemed to be suggesting that the whole prayer is biblical.

This is incontrovertible wrt the first half since it is a direct quotation of Gabriel’s salutation to our Lady.

The second half though is what is in doubt and it was, indeed, disingenuous to baldly suggest that it, along with the first half, under the rubric of the whole prayer, was biblical and that therefore Protestants ought have no difficulties with it.

However, since I have offended you, I will withdraw the remark which was made in reference to a point ancillary to the main line of discussion anyway.

 

[JimO]

I just want everyone to know that Steadfast and I exchanged PMs and I realize that I took offense where none was intended. I was engaging in a bit of “self righteous” anger and I want to apologize to Steadfast and everyone else for bringing the discussion down and jumping to conclusions. I’m ashamed of myself for showing such a poor example in front of so many. Please forgive me, Steadfast, and everyone else.

 

[Steadfast]

Jim,

You didn;t do anything wrong. I wasn’t really thinking about it at the time but the word “disingenuous” carries more flavor of dishinest intent than I really meant and i completely understand your irritation with my choice of it.

 

[believers]

Can non-Catholics please explain what the Rosary focuses on?

God bless,
Jon

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

 

[maryjk]

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

According to Webster,

Main Entry:vain
Pronunciation:vn
Function:adjective
Etymology:Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin vanus empty, vain

1 : of no real value : IDLE : WORTHLESS
2 : FUTILE : UNSUCCESSFUL
3 : proud of one’s looks or abilities

Praying a pray twice, thrice or even 150 times, does not make it worthless or idle.

 

[Steadfast]

Προσευχόμενοι δὲ μὴ βατταλογήσητε ὥσπερ οἱ ἐθνικοί· δοκοῦσι γὰρ ὅτι ἐν τῇ πολυλογίᾳ αὐτῶν εἰσακουσθήσονται.

βατταλογήσητε is the word translated “vain repitition”. Battalonesete, from the root

βαττολογέω
battologeō
Thayer Definition:

1. to stammer
2. to repeat the same things over and over, to use many idle words, to babble, prate. Some suppose the word derived from Battus, a king of Cyrene, who is said to have stuttered; others from Battus, an author of tedious and wordy poems.

The reference would seem to be to unrecollected utterance; i.e. to saying words with no intention or commitment over and over again.

The Rosary can be this, but it needn’t necessarily be.

I can say, from my own experience that even private prayer can fall into formulas and habit without commitment.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Προσευχόμενοι δὲ μὴ βατταλογήσητε ὥσπερ οἱ ἐθνικοί· δοκοῦσι γὰρ ὅτι ἐν τῇ πολυλογίᾳ αὐτῶν εἰσακουσθήσονται.

βατταλογήσητε is the word translated “vain repitition”. Battalonesete, from the root

βαττολογέω
battologeō
Thayer Definition:

1. to stammer
2. to repeat the same things over and over, to use many idle words, to babble, prate. Some suppose the word derived from Battus, a king of Cyrene, who is said to have stuttered; others from Battus, an author of tedious and wordy poems.

The reference would seem to be to unrecollected utterance; i.e. to saying words with no intention or commitment over and over again.

The Rosary can be this, but it needn’t necessarily be.

I can say, from my own experience that even private prayer can fall into formulas and habit without commitment.

So what you are saying is it comes down to the intent and/or heart of the person who is praying, correct?

Which means that you are in no way attacking the form of the prayer but the intention and/or heart of the one praying it, correct?

I mean, I think you can conclude by the posts of those here who practice this beautiful devotional that their hearts are set on Christ and learning the deeper meanings of his life and death through this devotion. So they are not engaged in any vain repetitions, but prayers that center on their Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Good, I’m glad we all got that settled!

 

[believers]

According to Webster,

Praying a pray twice, thrice or even 150 times, does not make it worthless or idle.

Yes, but it is “much speaking” by repitition and that’s vain to God. What kind of a relationship would you have with someone if all you said was the same thing over and over again? God is a real person. Talk to Him without the repititions.

 

[Stephen_C]

It is kinda funny and sad that the use of the Rosary is attacked by so many non-Catholic’s. I guess it is because it is so Catholic. They will even go so far as quoting bit’s and pieces of the of the Bible to try to prove thier point. Even though the passages they quote are taken completely out to context. The Rosary is a very powerful tool for prayer. Done either in a group or alone. Satan knows this well, and will do anything in is power to stop it. Think about it. You know what, us Catholic’s pray directly to Jesus as well. We also believe in the communion of Saints. So as we pray directly to Jesus, we also ask our Brother’s and Sister’s in Christ who have gone before us, to pray for us as well. Satin know’s this all to well, and like I stated earler, he will do everything in his power to stop it.

 

[maryjk]

Yes, but it is “much speaking” by repitition and that’s vain to God. **What kind of a relationship would you have with someone if all **you said was the same thing over and over again? God is a real person. Talk to Him without the repititions.

Well, if that was all I said to them, I would think that they would think I was nuts. :whacky: Although, I have to say, telling my husband or son that I love them over and over again hasn’t been an issue.

But since, in addition to the Rosary, I also pray to God in other ways, it isn’t a problem.

But I do need to ask you, how do you know that it is “much speaking” and that God considers it vain? As the saying goes, even Jesus prayed the same prayer more than once. Is there some set number of times you may pray something? When is it ok, and when is it not. And how do you know when you have hit that number? There is no answer to this. Only the person that is praying knows what is in their heart.

If there is a problem with the Rosary, then there is a problem with almost every Protestant prayer that I have heard. They all start the same way, “Lord, I/we just wanna…” And I am not trying to be mean here. Just honest. So, every time that happens, it is “much speaking” and vain. Oh, wait, only the speaker knows for sure.

 

[believers]

Well, if that was all I said to them, I would think that they would think I was nuts. :whacky: Although, I have to say, telling my husband or son that I love them over and over again hasn’t been an issue.

But since, in addition to the Rosary, I also pray to God in other ways, it isn’t a problem.

But I do need to ask you, how do you know that it is “much speaking” and that God considers it vain? As the saying goes, even Jesus prayed the same prayer more than once. Is there some set number of times you may pray something? When is it ok, and when is it not. And how do you know when you have hit that number? There is no answer to this. Only the person that is praying knows what is in their heart.

If there is a problem with the Rosary, then there is a problem with almost every Protestant prayer that I have heard. They all start the same way, “Lord, I/we just wanna…” And I am not trying to be mean here. Just honest. So, every time that happens, it is “much speaking” and vain. Oh, wait, only the speaker knows for sure.

You repeat your prayers over and over and over again. One after the other several times over in succession. That’s repitition and it’s vain to God.

 

[believers]

It is kinda funny and sad that the use of the Rosary is attacked by so many non-Catholic’s. I guess it is because it is so Catholic. They will even go so far as quoting bit’s and pieces of the of the Bible to try to prove thier point. Even though the passages they quote are taken completely out to context. The Rosary is a very powerful tool for prayer. Done either in a group or alone. Satan knows this well, and will do anything in is power to stop it. Think about it. You know what, us Catholic’s pray directly to Jesus as well. We also believe in the communion of Saints. So as we pray directly to Jesus, we also ask our Brother’s and Sister’s in Christ who have gone before us, to pray for us as well. Satin know’s this all to well, and like I stated earler, he will do everything in his power to stop it.

I don’t find God’s Word funny. He was explicit about repitition in prayer. He said not to do it.

And, Jesus said we can pray to God the Father directly in Jesus name.