Can non-Catholics explain what the Rosary focuses on?

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I don’t find God’s Word funny. He was explicit about repitition in prayer. He said not to do it.

And, Jesus said we can pray to God the Father directly in Jesus name.
Oh, I don’t find God’s word’s funny either. I did not say that. What I said was I find the attack on the Rosary’s prayer power by some non-Catholic’s, Funny in a sad way. I also said how sad it is that it is attacked by using the bit’s and pieces of passages from the Bible taken completly out of context. That is what I said. Questions?
 
What about Christ repeating the same prayer, in the same words even, three times in the Garden of Gethsemane?

And what about the hosts of heaven in Revelation - unceasingly singing ‘Holy Holy Holy’ to God? Sounds awfully repetitious to me.

Then you can look at the Old Testament for more examples.

Start with the prophet Daniel, who composed a wonderful hymn of praise to God - (Daniel 3:57-88) - it is repetitious. It goes like this:

‘O all you works of the Lord, O bless the Lord,
to him be highest glory and praise for ever,
And you, angels of the Lord, O bless the Lord,
to him be highest glory and praise for ever,
And you, the heavens of the Lord, O bless the Lord,
And you, clouds of the sky, O bless the Lord,
And you, all armies of the Lord, O bless the Lord,
to him be highest glory and praise for ever…’

and on and on … as you can see, for 30 verses!

And do you know that the Psalms of David were prayed over and over again in the Temple of Jerusalem? They were THE prayer of the Jewish people. Not only were they repeated, but some of them as well ARE repetitive in themselves.

I don’t notice God being particularly displeased with this practice. In fact I have a sneaking suspicion that he ordered it - after all he pretty clearly himself spelled out every other aspect of priestly and Temple worship, down to the design and furnishing of the Temple itself and the design of the priestly vestments.

And in fact those Psalms were so important in Jewish worship that the Christian clergy adopted the practice of saying/chanting them.

The fact is that the Rosary was DEVELOPED in imitation of this practice - by ordinary folks who wanted to do the same but couldn’t read the Psalms, being illiterate. They simply substituted a Hail Mary for each Psalm - that’s why there’s 150 of 'em in the standard Rosary.

So there’s plenty of evidence that repetition alone is NOT what Christ was referring to, nor is it displeasing to God simply because it’s repetitive. I think an earlier poster compared it to saying ‘I love you’ again and again to your spouse. In fact they’d get pretty upset if you DIDN’T repeat that particular phrase to them frequently!

And while the Rosary can indeed be prayed mindlessly, so can pretty much any prayer at all. It’s very easy to get distracted in prayer regardless of the words one uses.
 
Having grown up in a denomination in which preachers attempted to see just how many times they could use the Name of Jesus in one sentence, and if that didn’t get his attention they would help him out by screaching at the top of their lungs! The gift of the Rosery is a pure blessing from heaven!:yup: Don’t talk to me about vain repetitions. Protestents do it all the time.
 
You repeat your prayers over and over and over again. One after the other several times over in succession. That’s repitition and it’s vain to God.
Like I said before, how do you know that it is vain to God?

You feel that it is vain to God. You don’t really know what He thinks.

Based on the response to my prayers, I feel that the Rosary is something that He enjoys hearing.
 
I don’t find God’s Word funny. He was explicit about repitition in prayer. He said not to do it.

And, Jesus said we can pray to God the Father directly in Jesus name.
You must be talking about this verse then?

Matthew 6: 7

***But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. ***Oops! Looks like Jesus himself forgot that one. There again Jesus is God; so why would he contradict himself? HHmmm. Let’s look at His agony in the garden the night before he died.

Our blessed Lord prostrates himself upon the rocky soil clutching at the very ground for support. He groans in distress and writhes in physical agony. His usual calmness deserts him as he keeps repeating the same prayer over and over again: “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

A little bible study always helps me to see the problem. Whilst you focus on the word repetition, and we focus on the words vain repetition. In other words we take it in it’s proper context like all good scholars should!

There is a massive difference between mere vain repetition and repetition. Vain repetition is not done out of love for God but out of love for self. A proud self interested and conceited type of prayer. One that is destined for the eyes and ears of others around us! Of course this type of prayer is ineffectual. It does not serve God. It serves only to bolster the pride and is therefore sinful.

Repetition on the other hand is a very positive means of learning and of deepening ones focus on what they are saying.
Can you, a stalwart of sola scriptura, honestly tell me that you can understand every verse of scripture you read by only reading it once? Never. You must read and reread it in order to bring out its full beauty. This is a well known method of bible study and scriptural prayer.

Repetition without vanity is most acceptable to the Father. This is proven by Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane on the first Holy Thursday night. Jesus was repeating his words as we are told in Matthew 26:36-43

**36 Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” 37He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.” **
**39Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” **
**40Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?” he asked Peter. 41"Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak." **
**42He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.” **43When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

These words of Christ were never vainly repeated. If they were then he would have had no trust in his Father and this level of despair would have given us reason to doubt his Divinity.

When we Catholics, faithfully repeat our prayers we certainly do not do it vainly. I would certainly hope no Catholic worth their salt would never pray with vain repetition.
Our faith teaches us better than to ever decend this low.
 
Yes, but it is “much speaking” by repitition and that’s vain to God. What kind of a relationship would you have with someone if all you said was the same thing over and over again? God is a real person. Talk to Him without the repititions.
I say “I love you” to my husband several times a day, and I also have to admit that I never tire of hearing it from him. We have a great relationship. :yup:

People who use the Rosary also speak to God in “their own” words - the intentions of the Rosary, for example, are often personal intentions - adoration, thanksgiving, sorrow for sins, and requests for help, for oneself and for others.

I would also be willing to bet that someone who prays the Rosary every day also prays to God in his or her own words more frequently than someone who isn’t in the habit of regularized prayer.

Another point is that the “repetition” of the Hail Marys and other prayers of the Rosary are essentially background for the real prayer, which is the interior (not spoken out loud) meditation upon the Mysteries, and these are definitely very personal - what one experiences while standing next to Mary, watching her Son be crucified, or rejoicing with her at the Annunciation, and responding to them in the heart, are experiences that would be nearly impossible to express in language.
 
When you say “repitition in prayer” do you mean something like Psalm 136?:

Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good,
for his steadfast love endures forever.
Give thanks to the God of gods,
for his steadfast love endures forever.
Give thanks to the Lord of lords,
*for his steadfast love endures forever; *

to him who alone does great wonders,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who by understanding made the heavens*,*
*for his steadfast love endures forever; *
to him who spread out the earth above the waters,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who made the great lights,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
the sun to rule over the day,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
the moon and stars to rule over the night,
for his steadfast love endures forever;

to him who struck down the firstborn of Egypt,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
and brought Israel out from among them,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
with a strong hand and an outstretched arm,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who divided the Red Sea in two,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
and made Israel pass through the midst of it,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
but overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red Sea,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who led his people through the wilderness,
*for his steadfast love endures forever; *

to him who struck down great kings,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
and killed mighty kings,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
Sihon, king of the Amorites,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
and Og, king of Bashan,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
and gave their land as a heritage,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
a heritage to Israel his servant,
for his steadfast love endures forever.

It is he who remembered us in our low estate,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
and rescued us from our foes,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
he who gives food to all flesh,
for his steadfast love endures forever.
Give thanks to the God of heaven,
for his steadfast love endures forever.
 
You repeat your prayers over and over and over again. One after the other several times over in succession. That’s repitition and it’s vain to God.
You seem to think that repetition = vain.
You are trying to make the verse say something that is not.

It would be the same as if He said blue shoes were bad and you assumed all shoes were blue.

“Is repetition bad?” is a different question than “Is vain repetition bad?”

michel
 
When you say “repitition in prayer” do you mean something like Psalm 136?:

Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good,
for his steadfast love endures forever.
Give thanks to the God of gods,
for his steadfast love endures forever.
Give thanks to the Lord of lords,
*for his steadfast love endures forever; *

to him who alone does great wonders,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who by understanding made the heavens*,*
*for his steadfast love endures forever; *
to him who spread out the earth above the waters,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who made the great lights,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
the sun to rule over the day,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
the moon and stars to rule over the night,
for his steadfast love endures forever;

to him who struck down the firstborn of Egypt,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
and brought Israel out from among them,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
with a strong hand and an outstretched arm,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who divided the Red Sea in two,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
and made Israel pass through the midst of it,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
but overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red Sea,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
to him who led his people through the wilderness,
*for his steadfast love endures forever; *

to him who struck down great kings,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
and killed mighty kings,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
Sihon, king of the Amorites,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
and Og, king of Bashan,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
and gave their land as a heritage,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
a heritage to Israel his servant,
for his steadfast love endures forever.

It is he who remembered us in our low estate,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
and rescued us from our foes,
for his steadfast love endures forever;
he who gives food to all flesh,
for his steadfast love endures forever.
Give thanks to the God of heaven,
for his steadfast love endures forever.
That’s not a prayer. It’s called a psalm. Also known as a song or hymn. Where did you ever get the idea that was a prayer?

Just curious, do you believe Jesus died for ALL of our sins? Or do you believe that water baptism washes away original sin?
 
You seem to think that repetition = vain.
You are trying to make the verse say something that is not.

It would be the same as if He said blue shoes were bad and you assumed all shoes were blue.

“Is repetition bad?” is a different question than “Is vain repetition bad?”

michel
That verse is very clear. Don’t create “much speaking” by repitition. God’s Word says it’s vain. But do what you want. I’ll believe the Word and only the Word.
 
:clapping:
It’s more like this…

Our Father who art…
Our Father who art…
Our Father who art…
Our Father who art…
Our Father who art…
Our Father who art…
Our Father who art…
Our Father who art…
Our Father who art…
Our Father who art…
Our Father who art…
Our Father who art…
Our Father who art…
Our Father who art…
Our Father who art…
 
That’s not a prayer. It’s called a psalm. Also known as a song or hymn. Where did you ever get the idea that was a prayer?
I am Catholic, but my daughter-in-law is an Evangelical. So I went to an Easter service with her and her family before she married my son.

During the service, the pastor would announce that now the “Worship Team” would lead the congregation. And this “Worship Team” was what we Catholics would call the “choir” and the worship they lead everyone in was singing!

So where do you get the idea that a song or a hymn is not prayer? If it is worship, it most certainly is prayer, at least in my daughter-in-law’s church, that is!!🙂
 
That’s not a prayer. It’s called a psalm. Also known as a song or hymn. Where did you ever get the idea that was a prayer?

Just curious, do you believe Jesus died for ALL of our sins? Or do you believe that water baptism washes away original sin?
Jesus recited one of the psalms from the cross (ie ‘my God my God why have you abandoned me?’ - the first verse of Psalm 21(22) ) - you think he was singing and NOT praying?

Yes, Jesus died to save us all from all of our sin. This includes our personal sins - as *well as *that tendency or attraction or leaning towards sin which all humans possess (also called concupiscence, or original sin) by virtue of being descended from the sinful Adam and Eve.

Original sin isn’t the same thing as personal sin. Learn the difference between the two. Jesus saves those who are baptised from both kinds of sin.
 
I am Catholic, but my daughter-in-law is an Evangelical. So I went to an Easter service with her and her family before she married my son.

During the service, the pastor would announce that now the “Worship Team” would lead the congregation. And this “Worship Team” was what we Catholics would call the “choir” and the worship they lead everyone in was singing!

So where do you get the idea that a song or a hymn is not prayer? If it is worship, it most certainly is prayer, at least in my daughter-in-law’s church, that is!!🙂
Our worship team leads us in a song and we sing. Then when we pray to God and we start off by saying something like this. This was just off the top of my head…

Dear Heavenly Father, we come to you in the name of Jesus, thank you for this day and all the blessings we’ve received. Thank you Father for bringing us together today for fellowship. We honor you Father for all that you’ve done. We give you the honor and glory. We praise your name and your name alone. In Jesus Name, Amen
 
Jesus recited one of the psalms from the cross (ie ‘my God my God why have you abandoned me?’ - the first verse of Psalm 21(22) ) - you think he was singing and NOT praying?
It’s up to you. Do what you want and I’ll do what the Bible says. I am always open to reproof. The Bible says not to repeat and I obey it. Because if I hate reproof, the Bible says I shall die.
 
It’s up to you. Do what you want and I’ll do what the Bible says. I am always open to reproof. The Bible says not to repeat and I obey it. Because if I hate reproof, the Bible says I shall die.
Matthew 6:7. And when you are praying, speak not much, as the heathens. For they think that in their much speaking they may be heard.

Unfortunately, you have misinterpreted what is being said. The reference here is for those who are praying to false gods (lowercase “g”). These are people who think that by praying over and over to a false god that the false god will answer.

God does not have a problem with repetitious prayer to Him: Revelation 4:8 - “Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying: ‘Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come.’”

Since you take Matthew 6:7 at its literal meaning then you should be ready to take this literally: John 6: 52-64: Six (6) times Christ makes a direct reference to “My flesh and my blood.” Figurative?
 
In regard to repepitous prayer:

Matt. 6:7 - Jesus teaches, “do not heap up empty phrases” in prayer. Protestants use this verse to criticize various Catholic forms of prayer which repeat phrases, such as litanies and the Rosary. But Jesus’ focus in this instruction is on the “vain,” and not on the “repetition.”

Matt. 26:44 - for example, Jesus prayed a third time in the garden of Gethsemane, saying the exact same words again. It is not the repetition that is the issue. It’s the vanity. God looks into our heart, not solely at our words.

Luke 18:13 - the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying “God be merciful to me, a sinner.” This repetitive prayer was pleasing to God because it was offered with a sincere and repentant heart.

Acts 10:2,4 - Cornelius prayed constantly to the Lord and his prayers ascended as a memorial before God.

Rom. 1:9 - Paul says that he always mentions the Romans in his prayers without ceasing.

Rom. 12:12 - Paul commands us to be constant in prayer. God looks at what is in our heart, not necessarily how we choose our words.

1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul commands us to pray constantly. Good repetition is different than vain repetition.

Rev. 4:8 - the angels pray day and night without cessation the same words “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.” This is repetitious prayer that is pleasing to God.

Psalm 136 - in this Psalm, the phrase “For His steadfast love endures forever” is more repetitious than any Catholic prayer, and it is God’s divine Word.

Dan. 3:35-66 - the phrase “Bless the Lord” is similarly offered repeatedly, and mirrors Catholic litanies.
 
That verse is very clear. Don’t create “much speaking” by repitition. God’s Word says it’s vain. But do what you want. I’ll believe the Word and only the Word.
Paul says it’s ok to put forth as many prayers and supplications to God. He says it is actually pleasing to our Lord.

**Tim 1 2:1. I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be made for all men: **

2:2. For kings and for all that are in high station: that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all piety and chastity.

2:3. **For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, **

God bless,
Jon
 
That verse is very clear. Don’t create “much speaking” by repitition. God’s Word says it’s vain. But do what you want. I’ll believe the Word and only the Word.
Actually if you go back and read the verse, it doesn’t really say that. It says that we are not to pray like the heathens, mumbling nonsense at great length.

The rest of the Bible helps us understand Jesus’ meaning here - several people have posted a lot of verses that show repetitive prayer - Jesus used it, Paul used it, and the Saints in Heaven use it, and they can’t sin, so obviously, there’s nothing the matter with repetitive prayer in and of itself - the problem is when it’s just about repeating the “magic words,” rather than about lifting up the heart and mind to God.
 
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