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Mickey
Guest
Huh? I am Catholic!
You claimed that saying “Jesus save me” is repetition–so you have damaged your own argument.
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kevinfraser
Guest
But if he ever said it again, would it be repetition or vain repetition ?
And who has this authority to judge what’s ‘vain’ and what isn’t in the prayer of another person, like say, the repetition of Our Lord in Gethsemane.
He prayed the same prayer ‘directly to God’ three times. Exact same prayer. Anybody can read that in the Bible.
Where does it say in the Bible that Jesus repeated vainly three times the exact same prayer?
Where does it say His prayer was vain because he repeated it?
Do you see the problem with labelling any prayer as ‘vain repetition.’ We can’t do that unless we’re willing to label Our Dear Lord as praying with ‘vain repetition’
Personally, I’m not going near that one. And as far as I can tell, Our Lord was actually giving us an example to repeat the same prayer, but earnestly and with great urgency to the Father.
Someone else pointed out the “Lord I/we just wanna” preface that is exclusive to prayers offered by non-Christians. That is universally true in my experience at business meetings, prayer meetings, etc. It’s really almost a defining characteristic of prayers offered by non-Catholic Christians. Catholics NEVER say that, unless they are actually trying to sound like protestants in ecumenical settings.
Does that make all the prayers that are prefaced with this “Lord, I we just wanna” vain repetition? Is that opening supplicatory preface vain repetition and the rest is not?
Do you see the problem with this line of reasoning?
The Rosary is a compendium of the Gospel. What kind of Christian has a problem with meditating on the Gospel, and what kind of Christian pronounces other Christians’ prayers as being ‘vain repetition.’
Where is the charity in that?
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valient_Lucy
Guest
The psalm is not a prayer? Excuse me? Since when does being a hymn mean that something is not a prayer? If a composer sets the Lord’s Prayer to music, and the congregation sings it, is it no longer a prayer?
Yes, Jesus died for ALL of our sins. We believe that Jesus died also for Original Sin, and we recieve the forgiveness of God BECAUSE of Jesus’ death on the cross THROUGH baptism. Baptism is not the cause of our forgiveness, any more than the pipes in your house cause water. Baptism, like the pipes, is simply a channel that God uses to bring grace to us.
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Steadfast
Guest
Augustine…
Luther…
Whatever; same difference.
Luther…
Whatever; same difference.
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bella5110
Guest
Mickey :banghead: she is tired of repititions at her church. 42 times in a row is a lot. We do not do this in a Catholic church. And yes, I know you are Catholic, my whole point is most Catholics on this forum argue with their own, or misinterpret things. We are suppose to stay together, not knock everything someone says.Huh? I am Catholic!
You claimed that saying “Jesus save me” is repetition–so you have damaged your own argument.
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Mickey
Guest
No it is not.
Yes, we do. I say the “Jesus prayer” many more times than 42. There are some who say it 1000 times a day. Many monks say it continually all day and when the prayer takes root, it continues while they sleep. This is what is meant by praying unceasingly.
I am trying to explain to you that if you pray from the heart, it does not matter if you repeat a prayer one million times. I am not trying to “knock” what you say–my apologies if you took it that way–please forgive me.
Mickey
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bella5110
Guest
In all my life time of church, we never did repititious prayer 42 times in a row. What church do you go to?? I am not talking about monks. I was simply stating what she had said…Geez…No it is not.
Yes, we do. I say the “Jesus prayer” many more times than 42. There are some who say it 1000 times a day. Many monks say it continually all day and when the prayer takes root, it continues while they sleep. This is what is meant by praying unceasingly.
I am trying to explain to you that if you pray from the heart, it does not matter if you repeat a prayer one million times. I am not trying to “knock” what you say–my apologies if you took it that way–please forgive me.
Mickey
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Mickey
Guest
I’ll say it one more time. If your prayer is from the heart, it cannot be vainly repetitious–even if you say it one million times. I feel like a broken record.
It may shock you, but there are 23 sui juris Churches in the Catholic communion. I belong to the Ruthenian Catholic Church. Believe it or not, Rome is not the only Church within the Catholic communion. You could learn much from the East.
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whatevergirl
Guest
Just curious, if you ever pray for anyone in your family…for friends…anyone? Do you pray for others to have a better life, let’s say…the homeless? You probably do…people probably have asked you to pray for them at one point or another…or you have asked someone to ‘say a prayer for you,’ about such and such. Same things applies (only bettter since we are asking the Mother of Jesus to pray for us) It’s like sharing a community with the holiest of people…Mary, during prayer time. Asking Mary to pray with us and for us, is no different than asking a friend…or your mom…or your uncle…(well, again, she is the mother of Christ, so it’s better than asking a friend, personally to me…lol)
Hope this helps?
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Jeanette_L
Guest
So what your friend was saying was that they condemn others for repetition and then sing repetitiously themselves, right? Or was she just saying that she herself didn’t care for it as they were practicing it? I think the above poster was just not understanding what either you or she was trying to say, that’s all.
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bella5110
Guest
She said that’s all they did during her church day. Repititious lines.So what your friend was saying was that they condemn others for repetition and then sing repetitiously themselves, right? Or was she just saying that she herself didn’t care for it as they were practicing it? I think the above poster was just not understanding what either you or she was trying to say, that’s all.
It really isn’t rocket science.
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valient_Lucy
Guest
Even that prayer is a repetition of other phrases. I have heard every line in that prayer before.
Besides, at the evangelical church I attended, our pastors ALWAYS encouraged us to PRAY the hymns, not just to simply sing them.
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valient_Lucy
Guest
Who said that we don’t? I pray to Jesus a LOT more than I pray to Mary or to any of the other saints.
For me, I utilize the communion of saints in this way.
I pray to God and offer Him my petitions. Then I ask Mary to offer up her prayers, as well as St. Joseph, and other saints. Usually, I simply say, “St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, pray for me.” After I’ve invoked the Blessed Mother, St. Joseph, and other saints, I continue to pray to God, comforted that I am no longer praying alone, but joined by other holy men and women.
A Catholic NEVER prays alone, even when they are physically alone.
But to say that Catholics never pray to Jesus is simply wrong.
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JMJDevotee
Guest
Not quite. Each day, the focus changes to a specific 5 mysteries:Hi,
WOW you focus on that every time you say the rosary!! Im impressed:thumbsup: I have a hard enough time focusing on one thing at a time.I must have adult ADD
Monday, Thursday-Joyful-Annunciation, Visitation, Nativity, Presentation, Finding Christ in the Temple
Tuesday, Friday-Sorrowful-Agony in Garden, Scourging, Crowning with Thorns, Way of the Cross, Crucifiction
Sundays, Wednesdays, Saturdays-Glorius-Ressurection, Ascension, Descent of Holy Spirit, Assumption, Coronation
The purpose of the repetitions of the Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory Be, Fatima prayers are for meditation. See, if you know the words, as you say them you are able to meditate on the mystery.
Pax Vobiscum
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jim1130
Guest
"HIS:
I do not mind explaining to non-Catholics of the communion of saints and how we ask for the prayers of Mary, the Apostles, the Martyrs, the Saints, et al , but when they refuse to listen and are adamant that, based on their extensive knowledge of Catholicism that we are wrong, I simply grow irritated and realize that it is their pride and arrogance, and subtle yet obvious dismissive hostility toward Catholicism, that keeps them from realizing their false understanding. At that point, I simply refer to Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words: going forth out of that house or city shake off the dust from your feet.”
How many times must we EXPLAIN to non-Catholics how we pray? Honestly, I do not think that non-Catholics want to hear any explanation from us other than “You are right. We Catholics worship and pray to everyone, especially Mary, EXCEPT Christ.”
I do not mind explaining to non-Catholics of the communion of saints and how we ask for the prayers of Mary, the Apostles, the Martyrs, the Saints, et al , but when they refuse to listen and are adamant that, based on their extensive knowledge of Catholicism that we are wrong, I simply grow irritated and realize that it is their pride and arrogance, and subtle yet obvious dismissive hostility toward Catholicism, that keeps them from realizing their false understanding. At that point, I simply refer to Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words: going forth out of that house or city shake off the dust from your feet.”
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JMJDevotee
Guest
Lampo,
You are able to watch/listen EWTN online. Just go to their website and look under Television and Radio. You have to have the Real Player or Windows Media player. I watch/listen all day at work.
Pax Vobiscum
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JMJDevotee
Guest
valientLucy,
I also ask for St Elizabeth Ann Seton.
I really identify with her. She is patron saint. I converted and teach as she did.And thank you for such a clear and concise answer.
Pax vobiscum
J
JimO
Guest
That’s a great prayer, no doubt about it. I’ve read your posts and don’t agree that there is a clear distinction between prayer and song. They are both forms of praise, worship, thanksgiving, etc. The psalms were written as songs, but they are prayers as well. There are psalms for praise, worship, thanksgiving, petition, and even repentance. Whether we communicate with the Lord in speech or in song isn’t the issue here. In fact, it’s what is in the heart that matters.
The vain repetition reference in Scripture was addressing not simply a form of prayer, but the entire belief system of the pagans that they could some how manipulate the gods through their form of prayer. If said properly, the rosary is not this form of prayer. If someone is mindlessly “reciting” the rosary, it’s not much of a prayer any more than someone reciting the psalms or even someone one who would spontaneously pray the prayer you offered if their purpose was something other than to sincerely talk to God. I’ve known people who were more concerned about sounding good to the audience than they were about speaking from their heart to God.
I say the rosary often. I also “pray” the psalms aloud. I engage in private and group spontaneous prayer and at other times I simply sit quietly and try to listen with my spirit to what the Lord has for me. These all have their place in my prayer life. I find that the rosary allows me to engage in meditative prayer for longer periods of time and it gives me specific images in Christ’s life (the mysteries) to focus on during that meditation. I particularly like to meditate on the Lord’s passion (the Sorrowful Mysteries) to remind me of the price He paid for my sins. Nobody has to pray the rosary, but to simply write it off as vain repetition is, frankly, making a judgement on a person’s private prayer life. None of us can see into someone’s heart and make a judgement on that person’s relationship with Christ.
Regarding your baptism question, that has been the subject of many threads and a response here would take us way off track. If you are interested in the Church’s teaching on the matter, search the Catholic Answers website for baptism. If you want to debate it with individuals here, then you might consider starting a separate thread.
Peace
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JimO
Guest
Well, I’m afraid it’s not that simple. There is sharp disagreement among the thousands of Christian denominations as to “what the Bible says.” It also says, “If you do not eat my body and drink my blood, you have no life in you.” and “Faith without works is dead.” Given that there is much disagreement and confusion over what the Bible says and given that the Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion, who would you say has the final say on “what the Bible says” in a given passage?
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IHS
Guest
Sorry it doesn,t help. You missed what Jesus said. It went right over your head. Again why would I want to pray to a saint when Jesus clearly says to ask in His name and it shall be granted. Do we trust and have faith in what Jesus is saying?Just curious, if you ever pray for anyone in your family…for friends…anyone? Do you pray for others to have a better life, let’s say…the homeless? You probably do…people probably have asked you to pray for them at one point or another…or you have asked someone to ‘say a prayer for you,’ about such and such. Same things applies (only bettter since we are asking the Mother of Jesus to pray for us) It’s like sharing a community with the holiest of people…Mary, during prayer time. Asking Mary to pray with us and for us, is no different than asking a friend…or your mom…or your uncle…(well, again, she is the mother of Christ, so it’s better than asking a friend, personally to me…lol)
Hope this helps?
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