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katherine2
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I don’t believe either the Lutheran nor the Episcopal churches reject the ability of the Catholic Church to teach, preach or sanctify.
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itsjustdave1988
Guest
Yinekka,I found the bishops’ link and would be obliged if someone could tell me what possible **grave reason **could exist which would permit someone to receive Holy Communion while not in the state of grace.I was taught to make a spiritual communion if not in the state of grace.
*A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to receive the Body and Blood of the Lord without prior sacramental confession except for a **grave reason ***where there is no opportunity for confession
According to Catholic theology, you can be brought to a state of grace through the divine gift of perfect contrition. However, under normal conditions you are still canonically bound to refrain from receiving Holy Communion until you receive priestly absolution from the Sacrament of Penance. Simply being in a state of grace through perfect contrition is not enough, under normal conditions. Yet, for “grave reasons,” if there is for example a danger of death, you can receive Holy Communion before priestly absolution. THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION WITHOUT BEING IN A STATE OF GRACE.
I believe your are equating priestly absolution with a state of grace, and they are not strictly the same thing according to Catholic theology.
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Erich
Guest
While, yes, historically Lutherans and Anglicans reject the authority of the bishop of Rome (that’s why there are Lutherans and Anglicans, after all) I don’t think that most Lutherans and Anglicans today realize that their orders are defective (from a Catholic perspective). I also don’t think that most Lutherans and Anglicans still go around saying that “the Pope is the very Antichrist” (Smalcald Articles) or that “Scripture teaches not the invocation of saints or to ask help of saints” (Augsburg Confession). “Cafeteria Catholics” don’t go around saying this stuff either, of course, but when you come right down to the bottom line, even cafeteria Catholics reject (at least in part) the authority of the bishop of Rome.
On the other hand I do know that my wife is very conscious of anti-Catholic bias in the media, she’s been attending Mass at least every other week for the last 18 years, weekly for most of the last 11, singing in the choir with me for most of the last 8 or 9, and (when it comes up during Easter Vigil, baptisms, etc) praying the Litany of the Saints. I can only continue to pray that the Holy Spirit will guide her home, so that she can receive the fullnes of Christ in the Eucharist.
Agreed. These days, I’d be more inclined to think that Lutherans and Anglicans (and Presbyterians and Methodists and …) might think of the authority of a Catholic priest in a Catholic church in terms of the authority of their own ministers on their own “home turf”. So coming at it from this direction, it would be a much smaller leap for Lutherans and Anglicans to come to a Catholic understanding of the Real Presence. The last two (I think) stumbling blocks for my wife are the need to confess one’s sins to a priest and the whole Purgatory thing.
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yinekka
Guest
Re reply #22 - Dave
**Yet, for “grave reasons,” if there is for example a danger of death, you can receive Holy Communion before priestly absolution. THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION WITHOUT BEING IN A STATE OF GRACE. **
The ‘grave reason’ I routinely encounter is “I have to go to Mass with the family and I’ll be embarrassed if I don’t go to H C” I have to attend a wedding/funeral next week and I’ll be embarrassed if I don’t go to H C"
High School students who only go to Mass when there is a school Mass receive Holy Communion.
Parents of primary school children who only attend Mass when their child will be at the school Mass receive Holy Communion.
The only priest I ever heard tell people to ‘come up for a blessing if you aren’t a practising Catholic’ was criticised by his parishioners for being too orthodox!
**Yet, for “grave reasons,” if there is for example a danger of death, you can receive Holy Communion before priestly absolution. THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION WITHOUT BEING IN A STATE OF GRACE. **
The ‘grave reason’ I routinely encounter is “I have to go to Mass with the family and I’ll be embarrassed if I don’t go to H C” I have to attend a wedding/funeral next week and I’ll be embarrassed if I don’t go to H C"
High School students who only go to Mass when there is a school Mass receive Holy Communion.
Parents of primary school children who only attend Mass when their child will be at the school Mass receive Holy Communion.
The only priest I ever heard tell people to ‘come up for a blessing if you aren’t a practising Catholic’ was criticised by his parishioners for being too orthodox!
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itsjustdave1988
Guest
I understand. I too see the long lines at Communion but short lines at Confession.Re reply #22 - Dave
**Yet, for “grave reasons,” if there is for example a danger of death, you can receive Holy Communion before priestly absolution. THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN RECEIVE HOLY COMMUNION WITHOUT BEING IN A STATE OF GRACE. **
The ‘grave reason’ I routinely encounter is “I have to go to Mass with the family and I’ll be embarrassed if I don’t go to H C” I have to attend a wedding/funeral next week and I’ll be embarrassed if I don’t go to H C"
High School students who only go to Mass when there is a school Mass receive Holy Communion.
Parents of primary school children who only attend Mass when their child will be at the school Mass receive Holy Communion.
The only priest I ever heard tell people to ‘come up for a blessing if you aren’t a practising Catholic’ was criticised by his parishioners for being too orthodox!
However, I was commenting upon the teaching and canonical discipline of the Church, not the poor practice of it’s members. You seemed to question why the the Church permits receipt of Holy Communion without being in a state of grace. You asked: “*what possible **grave reason *could exist which would permit someone to receive Holy Communion while not in the state of grace.” Your implication seemed to be that the Church allows receipt of Holy Communion while not in a state of grace. If this was your implication, than it was incorrect. You must always be in a state of grace or you are not properly disposed to receive Holy Communion. The context of canon 916 presumes proper dispostion through perfect contrition.
*Can. 916 Anyone who is conscious of grave sin may not celebrate Mass or receive the Body of the Lord without previously having been to sacramental confession, unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition, which includes the resolve to go to confession as soon as possible.
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itsjustdave1988
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As for an orthodox homily on the matter, see here:web2.airmail.net/~carlsch/MaterDei/Homilies/homily040718.htm
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