can non christians go to heaven

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What is happening here? All of a sudden, this thread is effulgent with charity and sanity! 🙂

For what it is worth, most models “afterlife”* postulate several levels of Heaven and Hell. Though some report horrific experiences with their NDE’s the “heavenly” ones both of that and the OBE variety seem to indicate about four levels of heaven. That might be another thread, as there are some considerations surrounding that that are nothing short of fascinating.

I’ve read of a few different ideas about this, but again, my favorite statement about all that is “This is always already the ‘other’ world!”
Just another sign that the Holy Spirit will move us if we let it!! 😃
 
Kristin234,

You have misunderstood me. I am not saying that you should disregard those Scriptures; and I agree that God is a righteous judge and that God does indeed stick to His Word
I see what you were trying to say. Thank you for explaining it.
 
If i were in a more talkative mood, i might raise the issue of Karl Rahner’s theological opinion of Anonymous Christianity.

instead, allow me to quote Dominus Iesus:
“With respect to the way in which the salvific grace of God — which is always given by means of Christ in the Spirit and has a mysterious relationship to the Church — comes to individual non-Christians, the Second Vatican Council limited itself to the statement that God bestows it “in ways known to himself”.” (VI, 21)
All belong to the Father who belongs to the Son.

But that is for the Son to decide. Not us.
 
I am currently involved in a heated arguement with my brother in law who is adament that non christians who live a decent and moral life can go to heaven. My understandig is that Jesus said “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
Nope. Those who do not follow after Christ cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. The quote you used above presents this Truth quite adequately.
 
That quote from Scripture and the Church infallibly teaching that all who die as non-Catholics do not enter the Kingdom of God cannot be more clear about this issue. If a man is truly righteous then God will supply him the grace to obtain what is necessary to be saved before the end of his mortal life. St. Thomas explains this well:

“Although it is not within our power to know matters of faith by ourselves alone, still, if we do what we can, that is, follow the guidance of natural reason, God will not withhold from us that which we need.”

For people having difficulty believing in this being possible and Divine Providence, then it is a matter of your own faith in God. Christian missionaries didn’t go to far-off places to spread the the truth of Christ simply for the good of their health(obviously not true as many were subject to horrific tortures). They did it so that ignorant people could be saved.

Pope Gregory XVI: “We are thankful for the success of apostolic missions in America, the Indies, and other faithless lands…They search out those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death to summon them to the light and life of the Catholic religion… At length they snatch them from the devil’s rule, by the bath of regeneration and promote them to the freedom of God’s adopted sons.” (Probe Nostis # 6, Sept. 18, 1840)
 
That quote from Scripture and the Church infallibly teaching that all who die as non-Catholics do not enter the Kingdom of God cannot be more clear about this issue. If a man is truly righteous then God will supply him the grace to obtain what is necessary to be saved before the end of his mortal life. St. Thomas explains this well:

“Although it is not within our power to know matters of faith by ourselves alone, still, if we do what we can, that is, follow the guidance of natural reason, God will not withhold from us that which we need.”

For people having difficulty believing in this being possible and Divine Providence, then it is a matter of your own faith in God. Christian missionaries didn’t go to far-off places to spread the the truth of Christ simply for the good of their health(obviously not true as many were subject to horrific tortures). They did it so that ignorant people could be saved.

Pope Gregory XVI: “We are thankful for the success of apostolic missions in America, the Indies, and other faithless lands…They search out those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death to summon them to the light and life of the Catholic religion… At length they snatch them from the devil’s rule, by the bath of regeneration and promote them to the freedom of God’s adopted sons.” (Probe Nostis # 6, Sept. 18, 1840)
Hi Eriugena: I have a question for you if I may. First, let me make the disclaimer that I am okay with your idea that people like myself cannot go to heaven. It doesn’t matter to me one way or the other. As background, you have made reference to quotes from Scripture and your Church’s infallible teaching on this thing or that, and a proclamation from Pope Gregory XVI. Now, my question. Without these interpretations, or without the infallible guidance of certain institutions, councils and officials who may or may not have succession to this thing or that to help you along, what do you know of God? Without your mind (basically your brain) and the nervous system that collects sensory and intellectual (name removed by moderator)ut for it to process things like scripture, proclamations and dogma, what do you know of God? What encounters has Eriugena had with God, and what can you tell me of God from your own personal experience and interaction with Him on a daily basis? 500 ms after we are dead and we no longer have brains to process proclamations, bible stories and dogma, how will these things attend us?

Your friend,
Sufjon
 
That quote from Scripture and the Church infallibly teaching that all who die as non-Catholics do not enter the Kingdom of God cannot be more clear about this issue. If a man is truly righteous then God will supply him the grace to obtain what is necessary to be saved before the end of his mortal life. St. Thomas explains this well:

“Although it is not within our power to know matters of faith by ourselves alone, still, if we do what we can, that is, follow the guidance of natural reason, God will not withhold from us that which we need.”

For people having difficulty believing in this being possible and Divine Providence, then it is a matter of your own faith in God. Christian missionaries didn’t go to far-off places to spread the the truth of Christ simply for the good of their health(obviously not true as many were subject to horrific tortures). They did it so that ignorant people could be saved.

Pope Gregory XVI: “We are thankful for the success of apostolic missions in America, the Indies, and other faithless lands…They search out those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death to summon them to the light and life of the Catholic religion… At length they snatch them from the devil’s rule, by the bath of regeneration and promote them to the freedom of God’s adopted sons.” (Probe Nostis # 6, Sept. 18, 1840)
The missionaries went into foreign lands compelled by Christ because of His great love. They were compelled by the Love and the truth that Christ died that all might be saved.
The Catholic Church teaches that the person who lives by the Law of the Lord as written in his heart may go to heaven. Please read earlier posts for references to scripture as well as the teachings of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. We trust in God’s mercy over his judgment when it comes to our brothers and sisters living in darkness. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through the Son and no one comes to the Son unless the Father draw him. What we do not know is how the Father will draw a person who is not a Christian to Himself through His Son.

@ Sufjon–I know your question was addressed to Eriugena. I do have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I have experienced the love of God in my daily life. This relationship is more than an intellectual relationship. I am compelled to preach Christ, not merely because, like Timothy, I have learned the scriptures from my youth. I am compelled by Christ to share the Gospel, the good news that each one of us can live the life to which we have been called in Christ Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit living within us. We need not rely merely on our own efforts.
 
Have another beer and explain to me the meaning of faith? have a look at the catechism in regards to faith…cheers mate:D
 
@ Sufjon–I know your question was addressed to Eriugena. I do have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I have experienced the love of God in my daily life. This relationship is more than an intellectual relationship. I am compelled to preach Christ, not merely because, like Timothy, I have learned the scriptures from my youth. I am compelled by Christ to share the Gospel, the good news that each one of us can live the life to which we have been called in Christ Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit living within us. We need not rely merely on our own effort
Hi DebChris: Thank you for the reply. You have perceived part of my meaning, and insofar as I can ascertain, as is the case with many Christians, a certain understanding of the meaning of the scriptures as they pertain to the words of Christ. A personal relationship is a wonderful step in the right direction, but not altogether what I was hoping to get at.

Your friend
Sufjon
 
Interesting.
What exactly is a non Christian?
One is doesn’t believe in God…I thought that was an atheist.

What about those who are up and down with belief?
Or those who are lukewarm in their faith?
What about those who know about God but don’t act on His word.

Ok, what about for the last few months I haven’t been to church, I have been swearing like a sailor, looking at porn every now and again, not bothering to say my prayers, you know …really slacking off. Am I still a christian?
I am not an atheist. But am I still a christian or am I acting like a non christain?
Or even amazingly I am I extempted to be a non christian because I did go to church etc? Yet still believe in God?
But the truth is, if I had died today…I would not have been in the state of grace. Quite a risk. Only then I will be in the mercy of God.

If I had been a regular payer to the bank and slacked off for two months, then turned up empty handed to the bank manager.
Manager…"Why have you not been paying, like you had done "
God…“Why have you stop honoring me, as you have done”
Manager…“And you have the nerve to come in with no repayment”
God…“You have the nerve to come not in the state of grace”
“Mercy, mercy please, thou art have served and honored”
Both replied…“But I donot know you” (Biblical.)
 
Hi DebChris: Thank you for the reply. You have perceived part of my meaning, and insofar as I can ascertain, as is the case with many Christians, a certain understanding of the meaning of the scriptures as they pertain to the words of Christ. A personal relationship is a wonderful step in the right direction, but not altogether what I was hoping to get at.

Your friend
Sufjon
When I read your post, I was seeing relativism, that life has no true meaning or purpose.
My Faith, the evidence of things not seen, attends my life and gives me the knowledge I need to understand what God asks of me. This faith, on my part, is a response to the gift of Faith that God has given me. The Holy Spirit, dwelling within me, gives me the power necessary to live according to what I believe. He convicts me of sin that I might repent and return to God’s grace as quickly as possible.
Scripture says, “It is not the one who cries Lord, Lord, who will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the Will of the Father.” How can I know God’s Will if I do not open myself to His grace and power?
St. Paul stated that if there is no God, that if what we believe is false, then we truly are the “most pitiable of men.” Most of us who believe in God and His grace would understand your question, as an attack on personal faith in the God who is and who guides each of us in our daily actions.
What the Church teaches does indeed sustain us during this life and attends us when we come before the throne of Grace. It is much more than the ritualistic following of prescribed ritual. Those of us who have experienced His Grace and Love in our personal lives desire that others enjoy this same experience. Again, as scripture says about the gifts of God when prophecies, etc have passed away, what we have left is Faith, Hope, and Love. The greatest of these gifts is love. It is love that allows us to lay down our lives for the sake of others, to detach ourselves from the possession of this world. It is love that is the great command that Christ gave us before His crucifixion. “Love one another as I have loved you.”
The ten commandments are summarized in this Law of Love. “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength,” and “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”

My invitation to you is that you not merely learn about Christianity, which can be merely an intellectual exercise, but that you come to know Christ, to open yourself to the power of the Holy Spirit and allow Him to work in your life.
 
When I read your post, I was seeing relativism, that life has no true meaning or purpose.
Things in this world of form through which we pass are often relative. This is a reality that has to be faced. The problem is that people misidentify themselves as being part of the world of form. Insofar as the true nature of what we really are is concerned, there are absolutes, however, transience and mutability are at the core nature of the world of form, and it is largely relative. Ascribing an undue level of meaning and purpose to that which can only be passing or relative creates only suffering. In this realm, we live in the illusion of time. Einstein called it a stubbornly persistent illusion. The past does not exist right now. The future does not exist right now. All that exists right now is right now. The purpose of now is “being.” The purpose of being is “now.”
My Faith, the evidence of things not seen, attends my life and gives me the knowledge I need to understand what God asks of me. .
Beautifully said.
The Holy Spirit, dwelling within me, gives me the power necessary to live according to what I believe. He convicts me of sin that I might repent and return to God’s grace as quickly as possible.
Something within us convicts us of sin as you have said. It is that voice in the head, that self that is created by the mind and sense organs. That is not your true self. Jesus confronted that “other self” that lives in all of us when he was in the wilderness. In modern times, we call that created self the ego. In ancient times it was called the devil. Jesus invited it to leave. Once the devil of the self is cast off, one can realize their inherent oneness with all things and with God, who is manifest in all things, and at such a time, one will love God and their neighbor as themselves.
Scripture says, “It is not the one who cries Lord, Lord, who will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the Will of the Father.”
God’s will is that we love Him and love our neighbors as ourselves. There is nothing more that needs to be done. You must take the experiential path of seeing God face to face for yourself. The bad news is that this is hard to do. The good news is that His face is everywhere. But one has to know what one is looking for.
St. Paul stated that if there is no God, that if what we believe is false, then we truly are the “most pitiable of men.” Most of us who believe in God and His grace would understand your question, as an attack on personal faith in the God who is and who guides each of us in our daily actions.
I have told you to love God and your neighbor. This is not an attack on God. From my perspective, and this is just my perspective mind you, trying to package God in theologies, dogmas, bulls, rites and other machinations of this world are in themselves an attack on God. Attacks on God are of course futile, but many have, many do, and many more still will waste their time in such a way. Make straight the way of the Lord and know Him for yourself.
What the Church teaches does indeed sustain us during this life and attends us when we come before the throne of Grace.
Again, we are speaking of things like thrones and coming before such things. This is constructing God in our own image. If we think of such things as thrones, then we must by necessity perceive what spine rests against the uprights of that throne, what feet rest on the ground before it, or how His hair might be styled, does he clip His toenails or do they magically stay the same, or does He have toenails or a navel, or is He even a He?. If I sound silly, that’s because it is indeed silly, but if there is a throne, then such things must be considered. The throne of grace, the Kingdom of God, Heaven and Hell – they are all inside you and all around you. There is no time at which we will come upon them. There is only now, and the things we think we will seek or come upon later attend our being now as well.

I
t is much more than the ritualistic following of prescribed ritual. Those of us who have experienced His Grace and Love in our personal lives desire that others enjoy this same experience.
If you have experienced grace and love in ritual, then you should by all means do rituals. Such things exist in most all faiths, and they work well for a certain sort of temperament.
Again, as scripture says about the gifts of God when prophecies, etc have passed away, what we have left is Faith, Hope, and Love. The greatest of these gifts is love.
Then my sense is that we should focus on the greatest of these, and not waste too much effort on the rest. All other things will fall into place.
It is love that allows us to lay down our lives for the sake of others, to detach ourselves from the possession of this world. It is love that is the great command that Christ gave us before His crucifixion. “Love one another as I have loved you.”
I agree with you completely.
The ten commandments are summarized in this Law of Love. “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength,” and “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”
Right, and the ten commandments are a breeze once we love our neighbor as ourselves. The latter rather than the former is what needs our attention.
My invitation to you is that you not merely learn about Christianity, which can be merely an intellectual exercise, but that you come to know Christ, to open yourself to the power of the Holy Spirit and allow Him to work in your life.
It is possible that I know Christ already, it is possible that He works in my life, and yet still I am studying Christianity as an intellectual exercise. This is because the two are not necessarily the same thing.

Your friend,
sufjon
 
My invitation to you is that you not merely learn about Christianity, which can be merely an intellectual exercise, but that you come to know Christ, to open yourself to the power of the Holy Spirit and allow Him to work in your life.
It is possible that I know Christ already, it is possible that He works in my life, and yet still I am studying Christianity as an intellectual exercise. This is because the two are not necessarily the same thing.
The Pauline and Upanishadic behaviors display themselves.

Can we ever escape our intellectual inheritance i wonder,
 
The Pauline and Upanishadic behaviors display themselves.

Can we ever escape our intellectual inheritance i wonder,
Hi MatteoRicci: That is a great observation - they are exactly that. Pauline vs Upanishadic.

Your friend,
Sufjon
 
Hi Eriugena: I have a question for you if I may. First, let me make the disclaimer that I am okay with your idea that people like myself cannot go to heaven. It doesn’t matter to me one way or the other. As background, you have made reference to quotes from Scripture and your Church’s infallible teaching on this thing or that, and a proclamation from Pope Gregory XVI. Now, my question. Without these interpretations, or without the infallible guidance of certain institutions, councils and officials who may or may not have succession to this thing or that to help you along, what do you know of God? Without your mind (basically your brain) and the nervous system that collects sensory and intellectual (name removed by moderator)ut for it to process things like scripture, proclamations and dogma, what do you know of God? What encounters has Eriugena had with God, and what can you tell me of God from your own personal experience and interaction with Him on a daily basis? 500 ms after we are dead and we no longer have brains to process proclamations, bible stories and dogma, how will these things attend us?

Your friend,
Sufjon
Hello Sufjon,

With all due respect, if you can believe that God created the Earth and mankind, and you can believe in the Trinity and the Incarnation, then surely it should be no problem to believe in Divine Providence. God will add to His Church those who are worthy.

Acts 2:47- “Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
 
Hello Sufjon,

With all due respect, if you can believe that God created the Earth and mankind, and you can believe in the Trinity and the Incarnation, then surely it should be no problem to believe in Divine Providence. God will add to His Church those who are worthy.

Acts 2:47- “Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
We do not become part of the Church by our worthiness, but by our readiness.
“All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” Are we willing to open our hearts to God, and to allow Him to work in our lives, to be transformed into His image?
 
(Matthew 5:45):
“that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.”

Do not underestimate the mercy and love of GOD, I believe everyone will end in heaven, BUT the point would be the duration which will be spent in “Purgatory” prior to heaven
  • Neither scripture nor the Church teaches universalism with respect to everyone will be in heaven. Besides, if universalism was true, logically speaking, how would heaven be any differrent than earth? iow, heaven wouldn’t be heaven.
  • There’s no need to warn people about hell because of certain sins and behavior and belief, or lack of, if all will go to heaven anyway.
  • purgatory isn’t a second chance at getting things right. Purgatory is only for purification of people who die in friendship with God.
 
  • Neither scripture nor the Church teaches universalism with respect to everyone will be in heaven.
Only Catholics who have repented all their sins at confession go to heaven. Yes? No-one else.
Besides, if universalism was true, logically speaking, how would heaven be any differrent than earth? iow, heaven wouldn’t be heaven.
That point is irrelevant as it relies on your own subjective observations. Heaven is a temporary place before the resurrection of the physical body on earth.

The answer is obviously that ALL non-Roman-Catholics ( and Roman-Catholics who have not confessed before death) do not go to Heaven, that is do not partake in the bodily resurrection and eternal life on the new earth. The rest is all speculation and wishful thinking? Or am I mistaken? Perhaps misinterpretation of God’s Mercy?

Maybe someone authoritative could respond?
 
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