Can non-christians work miracles?

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fakename

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jewish people did wonders but can buddhists, or bad christians?

I think not since miracles are est. to convince people that the miracle worker is good.

But perhaps I made a mistake.
 
jewish people did wonders so it seems that non-christians can do miracles.

But can buddhists, or bad christians?

But miracles are est. to convince people that the miracle worker is good. So only on the condition that the person is very good, then he can do miracles regardless of religion.

But perhaps I made a mistake.
 
fakename said:
jewish people did wonders so it seems that non-christians can do miracles.

But can buddhists, or bad christians?

But miracles are est. to convince people that the miracle worker is good. So only on the condition that the person is very good, then he can do miracles regardless of religion.

But perhaps I made a mistake.
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Being is a miracle.
Living is a miracle.
So scientists say.
 
Hokomai said:
Can Christians work miracles?
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Yes. But it is not a repeatable phenomenon, where you can thoroughly test and isolate variables. The best you can do is hear anecdotes or experience one yourself.

And even if a scientist were to successful test it people do not believe.
 
fakename said:
…miracles are est. to convince people that the miracle worker is good.
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I believe Catholic exorcists might disagree a tad with this one.

Where are you trying to go with this line of thought Fakename?
 
fakename said:
jewish people did wonders so it seems that non-christians can do miracles.

But can buddhists, or bad christians?

But miracles are est. to convince people that the miracle worker is good. So only on the condition that the person is very good, then he can do miracles regardless of religion.

But perhaps I made a mistake.
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Miracles come from God and not the person and God can choose whomever he wants to work a miracle through. So the answer to your qestion is Yes.
 
As for me, I don’t believe that only Christians are children of God. We all can make miracles, only, it depends how deep our faith is.
 
user Blue Horizon:
I believe Catholic exorcists might disagree a tad with this one.

Where are you trying to go with this line of thought Fakename?
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I’m not going anywhere with this, except to find an answer.

I don’t know what exorcism has to do with this though (since I don’t think that they are miracles…). Could you please elaborate?
 
fakename said:
jewish people did wonders so it seems that non-christians can do miracles.

But can buddhists, or bad christians?

But miracles are est. to convince people that the miracle worker is good. So only on the condition that the person is very good, then he can do miracles regardless of religion.

But perhaps I made a mistake.
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God is the one who “does” miracles. He can choose whomever he knows is best to work through to perform them.
 
He also chooses what miracles will be successful - thats why its such a hit and miss - what we believe would be a worthy miracle may not be Gods will or for his purpose - no one can constantly perform miracles - we ask and wait and see but we should never give up and always continue to ask never loosing hope.
 
…
9 “When Pharaoh says to you, ‘Prove yourselves by working a miracle,’ then you shall say to Aaron, ‘Take your rod and cast it down before Pharaoh, that it may become a serpent.’” 10 So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and did as the LORD commanded; Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh and his servants, and it became a serpent. 11 Then Pharaoh summoned the wise men and the sorcerers; and they also, the magicians of Egypt, did the same by their secret arts. 12 For every man cast down his rod, and they became serpents. But Aaron’s rod swallowed up their rods.
…
20 Moses and Aaron did as the LORD commanded; in the sight of Pharaoh and in the sight of his servants, he lifted up the rod and struck the water that was in the Nile, and all the water that was in the Nile turned to blood. 21 And the fish in the Nile died; and the Nile became foul, so that the Egyptians could not drink water from the Nile; and there was blood throughout all the land of Egypt. 22 But the magicians of Egypt did the same by their secret arts; so Pharaoh’s heart remained hardened, and he would not listen to them;
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6 So Aaron stretched out his hand over the waters of Egypt; and the frogs came up and covered the land of Egypt. 7 But the magicians did the same by their secret arts, and brought frogs upon the land of Egypt.
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17 And they did so; Aaron stretched out his hand with his rod, and struck the dust of the earth, and there came gnats on man and beast; all the dust of the earth became gnats throughout all the land of Egypt. 18 The magicians tried by their secret arts to bring forth gnats, but they could not. So there were gnats on man and beast. 19 And the magicians said to Pharaoh, “This is the finger of God.”
…
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Exodus 7:9-8:19
 
I think I have an idea.

Jews could work miracles even though they didn’t have the perfect moral law nor our kind of grace.

But still, they were favored by God with miraculous powers. But exorcisms are not miracles so I think that for the most part, only either those favored by God like the jews or Catholics can produce miracles as such.

A protestant for instance, might not be able to receive visions or public prophecies, or be the instrumental cause of miraculous cures. I say “might not” because it I don’t know if some protestants are considered to be Catholics because their baptism is considered valid.

Are some protestants who are validly baptized considered to be in the same faith as we are? Or is there a generic christianity that is above our Christianity?
 
fakename said:
I think I have an idea.

Jews could work miracles even though they didn’t have the perfect moral law nor our kind of grace.

But still, they were favored by God with miraculous powers. But exorcisms are not miracles so I think that for the most part, only either those favored by God like the jews or Catholics can produce miracles as such.

A protestant for instance, might not be able to receive visions or public prophecies, or be the instrumental cause of miraculous cures. I say “might not” because it I don’t know if some protestants are considered to be Catholics because their baptism is considered valid.

Are some protestants who are validly baptized considered to be in the same faith as we are? Or is there a generic christianity that is above our Christianity?
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OK, now I believe I understand where you are going with this. You want to know if God’s chosen ones can be “proven” to be such by their tradition evidencing the miraculous? If so then short answer is no they cannot - it is much more complex than that.

The "exorcisms’. All I was suggesting to you is that malignant forces can also work wonders and make accurate predictions re the future that ordinary human beings would put into the category of “miracles.”

You could make all sorts of qualifications to show that the devil isn’t really doing miracles but in the end they would look the same to us and so we would still not be able to sift the wheat from the chaff … so we still couldn’t recognise the Elect.

The preternatural human powers can be “accessed” via great holiness or great evilness (or simply great discipline or pain). While they are not strictly speaking “miraculous” for all intents and puroses they are if they occur extremely rarely amongst the human population.
 
OK, now I believe I understand where you are going with this. You want to know if God’s chosen ones can be “proven” to be such by their tradition evidencing the miraculous? If so then short answer is no they cannot - it is much more complex than that.
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The "exorcisms’. All I was suggesting to you is that malignant forces can also work wonders and make accurate predictions re the future that ordinary human beings would put into the category of “miracles.”
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You could make all sorts of qualifications to show that the devil isn’t really doing miracles but in the end they would look the same to us and so we would still not be able to sift the wheat from the chaff … so we still couldn’t recognise the Elect.
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The preternatural human powers can be “accessed” via great holiness or great evilness (or simply great discipline or pain). While they are not strictly speaking “miraculous” for all intents and puroses they are if they occur extremely rarely amongst the human population.
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That wasn’t where I was going: again I was just curious. The non-Catholic can do false miracles but not miracles in my opinion. Is that true?
 
I recall that someone pointed out to Kathryn Kuhlman that most of her “cures” were probably of psychosomatic ills. She replied, “Yes, isn’t that wonderful. Doctors can’t cure them.” 😃
 
fakename said:
That wasn’t where I was going: again I was just curious. The non-Catholic can do false miracles but not miracles in my opinion. Is that true?
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The problem for you above is… how can anyone (except God) know if a miracle is actually a “false miracle?” There is no clear or consistent criteria for this in all cases.

St Theresa levitated to such an extent that her nuns had to hold her down. Persons possessed by demons are known to levitate. Non-christians are recorded as levitating.

You come across as more than “just curious” but seem to want a certain type of easy solution which doesn’t readily fit the “facts” (unless one chooses facts that match one’s theory but along that path lies madness :nope:).

The “just curious” emotional energy is coming from somewhere. When you are able to answer that question (for yourself primarily) your “curiosity” on this issue will probably vanish. Such “answers” as these are the most satisfying of all.
 
user "Blue Horizon":
The problem for you above is… how can anyone (except God) know if a miracle is actually a “false miracle?” There is no clear or consistent criteria for this in all cases.

St Theresa levitated to such an extent that her nuns had to hold her down. Persons possessed by demons are known to levitate. Non-christians are recorded as levitating.

You come across as more than “just curious” but seem to want a certain type of easy solution which doesn’t readily fit the “facts” (unless one chooses facts that match one’s theory but along that path lies madness ).

The “just curious” emotional energy is coming from somewhere. When you are able to answer that question (for yourself primarily) your “curiosity” on this issue will probably vanish. Such “answers” as these are the most satisfying of all.
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Seriously, just curious & if anything else, I want to learn more about the ins-and-outs of religion.

In any case, the Summa implies, as I just found, that non-christians probably couldn’t do miracles and whether protestants can depends on their “Catholicity”. So really non-Catholics (defined a certain way, perhaps) and non-Old Testament jews cannot do miracles.

Are some protestants considered to be Christians by baptism and therefore Catholic?
 
“Are some protestants considered to be Christians by baptism and therefore Catholic?”

That is, what do we mean when we say that some protestant baptisms are valid?
 
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