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ialsop
Guest
Can a priest be a member of the FSSP and Society of Jesus at the same time?
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Chatter163
Guest
No. They are different societies–different orders, if you will.
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TimothyH
Guest
The Society of Jesus is an Institute of Consecrated Life and the FSSP is a Society of Apostolic Life.
Notice that the Jesuits are consecrated.
Both are clerical. All Jesuits and all members of the FSSP are priests. Jesuits however, are consecrated men who take solemn vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. FSSP priests are secular men, not consecrated. FSSP priests do not make solemn vows.
The Jesuits and FSSP have different governance and different missions within the Church.
-Tim-
Notice that the Jesuits are consecrated.
Both are clerical. All Jesuits and all members of the FSSP are priests. Jesuits however, are consecrated men who take solemn vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. FSSP priests are secular men, not consecrated. FSSP priests do not make solemn vows.
The Jesuits and FSSP have different governance and different missions within the Church.
-Tim-
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commenter
Guest
I don’t know if the FSSP has any brothers, or Permanent Deacons. They do have seminarians, who are future priests.
Some Jesuits are seminarians, who will become priests, and others are brothers, who will not become priests. I suppose it is theoretically possible for a brother to become a Permanent Deacon, or an unmarried Permanent Deacon to become a brother, but I don’t know if it happens.
I think the OP’s question might be interpreted as asking, what if a man is in the Jesuits, but has a very strong attachment specifically to the EF, not only for his own devotion but wanted to encourage and spread this, as well as certain other forms the FSSP is known for? Would he be allowed to function in this FSSP-like apostolate, while remaining a Jesuit?
I would suppose it would depend on his religious superior. Keep in mind a famous Jesuit who named himself Francis!
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Denise1957
Guest
You’re right. However, I’d like to mention that according to the FSSP website, their priests do make promises of celibacy, obedience and chastity. This is mentioned under the section titled, 'A Society of Apostolic Life."
“Like diocesan priests, we make promises of celibacy, obedience, and chastity that have the same force and purpose as solemn vows do in religious life.”
fssp.com/press/what-is-the-fraternity-of-st-peter/
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ialsop
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theoda
Guest
Do you mean can a Jesuit celebrate the Latin Mass like FSSP? If so, they can, in fact I actually know one who does.
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johnnyt3000
Guest
Any priest can celebrate the EF without the permission of the Bishop. There may be differences among the permission within a religious order like the Franciscans of the Immaculate. It would be great for Jesuits to celebrate the extraordinary form.
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corsair
Guest
I know of a Jesuit priest who, after he retired, assists at an FSSP parish. In fact he says the EF Mass every Sunday and Holy Days of Obligation.
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TimothyH
Guest
Members of the FSSP are not consecrated religious. They are secular men. Their promises are no different from the promise made by other secular priests.
There is a big difference between consecrated life and secular life. FSSP do not live in the consecrated state.
-Tim-
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Denise1957
Guest
I didn’t say that they live in a consecrated state. However, the FSSP website states that the promise they make as to celibacy, chastity, and obedience has the same force and purpose as solemn vows, which is the case with diocesan priests as well. Do you disagree with them?
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otjm
Guest
Maybe disagree is not the correct term, but I believe they are differentiated in Canon law, with a solemn promise easier to be released from than a vow.
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Denise1957
Guest
Logically speaking, I would think that even with an easier release from a promise (of celibacy, obedience and chastity), as opposed to a vow, it seems likely that there’s the same expectation from the Church regarding the force and purpose which relates to celibacy, chastity and obedience in either case.
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commenter
Guest
Jesuits, like members of other religious orders, can certainly offer the EF, alongside his main ministry, teaching for example. But members of the FSSP go beyond a weekly EF, they offer the EF almost exclusively I believe. Their whole ministry is influenced by it - they generally work full time in an EF chapel or parish, often with funerals and other sacraments from the old rite (still valid). They campaign for expansion of the EF, though respecting the OF as fully valid. The FSSP does offer Ignatian retreats I believe, which would be very appropriate for a Jesuit.
The biggest obstacle to a Jesuit working full time doing FSSP-type ministry is the severe shortage of Jesuits. They are cutting ministries everywhere, so it’s hard to imagine a religious superior assigning someone full time to FSSP type work - they have some parishes, but I don’t think any American SJ parishes are concentrating on the EF. But yes, a Jesuit could certainly offer the EF on Sunday, in an parish.
I suspect some superiors are favorable to the EF, some less so.
The biggest obstacle to a Jesuit working full time doing FSSP-type ministry is the severe shortage of Jesuits. They are cutting ministries everywhere, so it’s hard to imagine a religious superior assigning someone full time to FSSP type work - they have some parishes, but I don’t think any American SJ parishes are concentrating on the EF. But yes, a Jesuit could certainly offer the EF on Sunday, in an parish.
I suspect some superiors are favorable to the EF, some less so.
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choliks
Guest
This I know is true. I know one rector who generously allowed a group of faculty and students to use the Formation House’s Oratory for EF Masses.
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otjm
Guest
Purpose, yes. Force, no; as noted, it is easier to be released from a promise than a vow; and when I say easier, my contact with the issue indicates that is not a minor difference. As one priest said, it is seriously harder to be released from a vow.
I am not trying to quibble or split hairs; as to the comment being made by an FSSP priest - or anyone else - it is easy to say they are effectively the same, and as to purpose that is correct. But Canon law is the arbiter on the issue of release, and the formation of someone entering into solemn vows is much longer than the formation of someone entering into the promise. Both the Benedictines and the Jesuits (both of whom have taught me in the past) have several years of formation beyond what , for example, a diocesan priest has. Both the diocesan and the professed will study theology for about 4 years (including the diaconal stage of about 1 year) and then ordination. My recollection is that the Benedictines are about 2 more years in formation (if not more) and the Jesuits 3 or 4 before ordination.
A lot of people don’t really realize there is a difference between a promise and a vow (quite some time ago I remarked about diocesan priests taking the vow of celibacy, and was politely but thoroughly corrected on that one - and I should have known better). However, it is a somewhat esoteric point to most people, and it would not surprise me that anyone answering the issue would not elucidate the differences.
Anyway, the short of it is that I have been told not once but several times, and have read that being released from a promise is definitely easier to achieve than being released from a vow; for whatever reason, Rome seems definitely reluctant. Not that they won’t release, but rather that it takes longer, and apparently it is not granted as freely. And that goes to force.
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otjm
Guest
I would suspect that the greatest obstacle would not be the shortage of Jesuits, but rather their charism; and their charism is primarily missionary work. In the US, they are best known for education, as that is what was requested of them long ago, and their response was to set up colleges, and high schools as feeders for colleges. While they do still serve in some parishes, it is my understanding that they are not making that a primary focus.
Someone else may know better, but I recall that quite some time ago, there were some FSSP priests who wanted to be able to say the OF and the superior said no; Rome intervened, and said that the priests could not be prevented from saying the OF. However, their charism is the EF,
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Denise1957
Guest
I don’t know much about the Jesuits, but the charism of the FSSP is to offer the traditional sacraments. In addition to the traditional sacraments, they encourage traditional devotions such as First Friday (Benediction), First Saturday, Compline, novenas, the use of indulgences, etc, for the benefit of the lay faithful who attend their parishes.
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otjm
Guest
And from what I hear, they do an excellent job of it.
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kozlosap
Guest
There is a vast difference in the formation between the Jesuits and FSSP. I attended mass at a FSSP Parish one weekend and the entire homily was about pleninary indulgences and purgatory. The next weekend I attended a Jesuit mass and the homily was about bullying both in the schools and in the workplace. Obviously, I was actually challenged and learned something about living out The Gospels from the second homily, the first homily was noteable for not being thought or heart provoking. I was also dismayed to witness many people saying the Rosary or reading during the mass. Yes, I remember older people doing the same behaviors during mass in the late 50’s and early 60’s, but I had hoped that it would change, even during the EF.
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