Can one pray TO the souls in Purgatory?

[phatcatholic]

I know that we are obliged to pray FOR the souls in Purgatory, but can we pray TO them? Can we request their intercession as we do of the saints in heaven? I did a preliminary search on the internet and the results were inconclusive.

Pax Christi,
phatcatholic
phatcatholic.blogspot.com

 

[Fox]

no, souls in purgatory can’t intercede on our behalf.

 

[ERose]

I know that we are obliged to pray FOR the souls in Purgatory, but can we pray TO them? Can we request their intercession as we do of the saints in heaven? I did a preliminary search on the internet and the results were inconclusive.

Pax Christi,
phatcatholic
phatcatholic.blogspot.com

Yes you can. Those in purgatory are still saints and members of the Body of Christ. Even though they are suffering in purgatory that does not eliminate them from Body of Christ.

 

[phatcatholic]

no, souls in purgatory can’t intercede on our behalf.

What makes you say that?

 

[Militant_Ellen]

There is a good deal of misunderstanding and deliberate misrepresentatatrion of our doctrine of the Communnion of Saints.
When we pray To the souls in the hereafter we are not "praying
To Them"per -say,we are asking them to pray for us as if they are alive and with us here and now ,as they are with us ,alive in Christ,here and now.Dead doesn’t make a difference to us.dead or Alive we believe we are all part of the mystical body.When I “pray to” a particular saint,whose life I may have learned about though learning about historic Christian examples,may have some connection to my own journey,I feel a sort of comradarie with that soul and (pray to)ask him to pray for me.This does not distract me from Our Lord,they are part our Lord the Communion of Saints,Church Triumphant.I know their prayers help just the same as if I’m on any church,USA’s “prayer list”,Does it distract me from worship of Our Lord and God if I ask you to pray for me?Am I “worshipping” you,like you are MY Lord and God if I ask you to pray for me?!
No!!!We simply don’t believe because your dead your prayers can’t be heard by God.I plan on praising the Lord throughout Eternity,
and even if I’m dead,I have a faith that tells me my prayers can help praise the Lord.The Church "suffering"are part of that equation.
Our Prayers help them,their prayers help us.We are a family in Christ Jesus.Amen
If your interested in how throughout the history of church came to this explanation of the Communion Of The Saints,I suggest you start out with the current catechisim,and a Biblical Defence of Catholosism.Good Books.Don’t just listen to me.I’m just one among many(Church militant).There are many more learned and
better able to discuss this topic than me.
I have heard this many times from those outside our faith who really don’t care to "understand"what we really believe.Our Lord Alone is the Holy one,He is the Most High Jesus Christ,with the Father and the Holy Spirit.,he is "worshipped"and Glorified.Dead or Alive "we’ are incidental to his cause.I will pray for your understanding ,especially if your in earnest

 

[fellicia]

I don’t think that you can ask someone in Purgatory to pray for you as they are not really Alive in Heaven as of yet. But saying that, you wouldn’t know if they where in Heaven as of yet so I would say go for it and ask them to Pray with you, if they do help then great if not maybe they will later. At the end of the day we don’t really know a time period for Purgatory especially seen as it exists out of our understanding of time.

 

[ERose]

I don’t think that you can ask someone in Purgatory to pray for you as they are not really Alive in Heaven as of yet.

What makes you say that? Why couldn’t those in Purgatory pray for us in the Church Militant? They are much more closer to God than we are for they have the Guarantee of Heaven where we do not. They no longer need Faith or Hope for they have seen what they Hope for and have Faith in. That they do have in common with the Saints in Heaven. Let us not forget that those in Purgatory are also Saints and are part of the Church Catholic.

 

[BeeSweet]

Let us not forget that those in Purgatory are also Saints and are part of the Church Catholic.

Saints are in heaven, not purgatory. Once you’re a saint, you’re no longer in purgatory. The souls in purgatory are holy, but they are not yet saints.

Those who are in purgatory can intercede for us once they become saints, but it is generally understood they can not intercede for anyone until they are in the presence of God.

 

[chris_molter]

Saints are in heaven, not purgatory. Once you’re a saint, you’re no longer in purgatory. The souls in purgatory are holy, but they are not yet saints.

Those who are in purgatory can intercede for us once they become saints, but it is generally understood they can not intercede for anyone until they are in the presence of God.

Correct. Those souls in purgatory have not yet received the beatific vision and therefore cannot hear our petitions. Of course, there isn’t much in Church Tradition speaking to this point, so it’s *possible *that God allows those in purgatory to hear our prayers, but I think it’s unlikely that they would prior to the beatific vision.

 

[VociMike]

Yes you can. Those in purgatory are still saints and members of the Body of Christ. Even though they are suffering in purgatory that does not eliminate them from Body of Christ.

I second this. They are not in heaven but they are bound for heaven, and are being purified and perfected by God. Why would God not listen to their prayers? In fact, would not their acts of praying for others be a part of their ongoing sanctification? It would be so here on earth.

 

[ERose]

Saints are in heaven, not purgatory. Once you’re a saint, you’re no longer in purgatory. The souls in purgatory are holy, but they are not yet saints.

Those who are in purgatory can intercede for us once they become saints, but it is generally understood they can not intercede for anyone until they are in the presence of God.

I wouldn’t classify me as a saint yet I do have the power to pray for you and for others. Why not those in purgatory? They are closer to the beautific vision than you or I and their prayers are backed up by what they KNOW instead of by faith so their prayers should be stronger than ours correct? If we believe that the prayers of the saints are stronger than ours then how can we not believe that those in purgatory have greater power in their prayers than us who live by faith.

 

[Todd_Easton]

I don’t think the Church explicitly directs any of its public (liturgical) prayers to the holy souls in Purgatory but I think the Church permits private prayers to them.

A prayer to the holy souls in Purgatory can be found here.

If I remember correctly, Padre Pio regularly prayed to those holy souls in Purgatory.

 

[BeeSweet]

I wouldn’t classify me as a saint yet I do have the power to pray for you and for others. Why not those in purgatory? They are closer to the beautific vision than you or I and their prayers are backed up by what they KNOW instead of by faith so their prayers should be stronger than ours correct? If we believe that the prayers of the saints are stronger than ours then how can we not believe that those in purgatory have greater power in their prayers than us who live by faith.

It may or may not be true that the holy souls in purgatory are closer to the beatific vision than you or I, we will not know until we (hopefully) arrive there. Some stay in purgatory much longer than others. It’s possible that you will arrive and be released from purgatory much more quickly than someone who has been there already for a very long time and who may stay longer still after you have been released. As to the strength of their prayers, that’s up to God again. Such as is illustrated in the Gospel of Matthew 20:1-16, which was recently read a few Sundays ago. God’s mercy is parceled out according to His generosity, which is beyond our comprehension.

I tend to ascribe to the view of Saint Thomas Aquinas on whether or not the holy souls are able to pray for us, but this is not the only view on the subject. One can believe that the souls have the power to intercede for us, but it seems to me their state is a poor one. Although they are assured of heaven, and know they will not receive eternal punishment in hell, their suffering should never be trivialized. Their suffering is severe, they need our prayers. Personally I would not want to burden them with my concerns. I have every hope though that my prayers for them will be remembered and rewarded by their own prayers once they are released from the terrible suffering of purgatory.

It seems a new kind of ideology to be glad to find oneself in purgatory. We can not forget the suffering to be had there is severe, although unlike hell it is temporary.

 

[Pro_Domina]

OFCOURSE!!!

And I recomend you do and for them.

We have to make friends. If you pray for them they will be there for you all eternity, esspecially when you have to present yourself before the Terrible Judge.

They are blessed souls, though they are paying for their sins.
St. Therese (I don’t remember which one) I believe had to do a genuflection in Purgatory for once that she entered into the Chapel with slackness.

A devotion I learned a long time ago is to ask them for help with difficult things. When you lose something, you can make a promise that you will pray this and that if you find it, or when you have to wake up next morning but you don’t have an alarm clock, ask them to wake you up. If you have faith and ask with sincerity, they will help.

 

[ERose]

It may or may not be true that the holy souls in purgatory are closer to the beatific vision than you or I, we will not know until we (hopefully) arrive there. Some stay in purgatory much longer than others. It’s possible that you will arrive and be released from purgatory much more quickly than someone who has been there already for a very long time and who may stay longer still after you have been released. As to the strength of their prayers, that’s up to God again. Such as is illustrated in the Gospel of Matthew 20:1-16, which was recently read a few Sundays ago. God’s mercy is parceled out according to His generosity, which is beyond our comprehension.

I tend to ascribe to the view of Saint Thomas Aquinas on whether or not the holy souls are able to pray for us, but this is not the only view on the subject. One can believe that the souls have the power to intercede for us, but it seems to me their state is a poor one. Although they are assured of heaven, and know they will not receive eternal punishment in hell, their suffering should never be trivialized. Their suffering is severe, they need our prayers. Personally I would not want to burden them with my concerns. I have every hope though that my prayers for them will be remembered and rewarded by their own prayers once they are released from the terrible suffering of purgatory.

It seems a new kind of ideology to be glad to find oneself in purgatory. We can not forget the suffering to be had there is severe, although unlike hell it is temporary.

Two questions:

1. Who lives the poorer existence? We in the Church Militant who still through possible future decisions may or may not continue on the straight and narrow path and as such still live with the risk of eternal damnation or the Church Suffering, who do suffer greatly yet are assured of eternal salvation.
2. Whose prayer is stronger? One who prays with no doubt or one who prays with doubt?

 

[chris_molter]

Two questions:

1. Who lives the poorer existence? We in the Church Militant who still through possible future decisions may or may not continue on the straight and narrow path and as such still live with the risk of eternal damnation or the Church Suffering, who do suffer greatly yet are assured of eternal salvation.
2. Whose prayer is stronger? One who prays with no doubt or one who prays with doubt?

Ah, but the question remains, can they hear us? Since the Church has had little to say on the matter (AFAIK, anyway), one could pray to the souls in Purgatory and trust that even if they cannot hear the petition, that God will and as such, the prayer isn’t ‘wasted’. I don’t see anything wrong with prayer in hope that those soon-to-be Saints will hear.

Personally, I think it’s better to go with prayer the way the Church has already taught. Pray FOR the souls in Purgatory and TO the Saints in Heaven.

 

[thistle]

Yes you can. Those in purgatory are still saints and members of the Body of Christ. Even though they are suffering in purgatory that does not eliminate them from Body of Christ.

Those in Purgatory are not yet saints. You only become a saint once you reach Heaven.

 

[ERose]

Those in Purgatory are not yet saints. You only become a saint once you reach Heaven.

Depending on what your definition of saint is. I think that the most general definition of saint is one who has been saved or has received salvation or in the case of earthly saints one who is following the way to salvation in an exemplimentary way. If this is your definition as well then our brethren in purgatory are saints. Now your opinion, that saints are only those that have made it to heaven, does not hold water to how the term is used in Sacred Scripture. Paul uses the term saints many times to refer to believers living in his time.

The Church does use the title “Saint” for those exemplary people who have shown through their lives and works to be worthy of the title. But in the past the term “saint” was not exclusively used for these individuals.

In other words what I am saying is that if the general definition is used for saints as those assured of salvation or saved then those in purgatory should be then classified as saints.

 

[Fox]

It would be to no avail to ask souls in purgatory to intercede for us because the fact remains, they are cut, albeit temporary, off from God and aren’t in communion with Him.

The discomfort of the purification process comes from them not being with God since they already had seen the Beatific Vision, and now they are removed from it. The discomfort is not nearly as bad as souls in hell, because they know they’ll be with God again.

Also, please stop saying “praying to (insert name)”. We as Catholics DON’T pray to anyone but God and you may confuse people new to the faith. Thanks.

 

[BeeSweet]

Two questions:

1. Who lives the poorer existence? We in the Church Militant who still through possible future decisions may or may not continue on the straight and narrow path and as such still live with the risk of eternal damnation or the Church Suffering, who do suffer greatly yet are assured of eternal salvation.
2. Whose prayer is stronger? One who prays with no doubt or one who prays with doubt?

I’m no theologian! But since you asked, I do have an opinion :twocents: :

1. The Church Suffering lives in the poorer existence. They no longer have even the meager joys we have here on earth. Their existence is suffering, continuous unrelenting suffering. We still have the opportunity to avoid purgatory altogether.

If a Christian avoids, as he easily can, these three classes of sin, viz., mortal sins, deliberate and grave venial sins, and habits of sin, it will be relatively easy for him to atone for faults of frailty…

Source: How To Avoid Purgatory By Fr. Paul O’Sullivan O.P.

None of us are assured of purgatory, just as none of us are assured of heaven or hell. Only God knows our hearts.

Also, we can not underestimate the intense suffering the poor souls in purgatory experience. There is nothing like it here on earth.

1. The fire we see on Earth was made by the goodness of God for our comfort and well-being Still, when used as a torment, it is the most dreadful one we can imagine.

1. The fire of Purgatory, on the contrary, was made by the Justice of God to punish and purify us and is, therefore, incomparably more severe.

1. Our fire, at most, burns this gross body of ours, made of clay; whereas, the fire of Purgatory acts on the spiritual soul, which is unspeakably more sensitive to pain.

1. The more intense our fire is, the more speedily it destroys its victim, who therefore ceases to suffer; whereas, the fire of Purgatory inflicts the keenest, most violent pain, but never kills the soul nor lessens its
   sensibility.

1. Unsurpassingly severe as is the fire of Purgatory, the pain of loss or separation from God, which the souls also suffer in Purgatory, is far more severe. The soul separated from the body craves with all the intensity of
   its spiritual nature for God. It is consumed with an intense desire to fly to Him. Yet it is held back. No words can describe the anguish of this unsatisfied craving.

What madness, therefore, it is for intelligent beings to neglect taking every possible precaution to avoid such a dreadful fate.

It is puerile to say that it cannot be so, that we cannot understand it, that it is better not to think or speak of it. The fact remains always the same – whether we believe it, or whether we do not – that the pains of Purgatory are beyond everything we can imagine or conceive. These are the words of St. Augustine.

Source: Read Me or Rue It by Fr. Paul O’Sullivan O.P.

Here is what the great Doctors of the Church tell us of Purgatory:

So grievous is their suffering that one minute in this awful fire seems like a century.

St. Thomas Aquinas, the Prince of Theologians, says that the fire of Purgatory is equal in intensity to the fire of Hell, and that the slightest contact with it is more dreadful than all the possible sufferings of this Earth!

St. Augustine, the greatest of the Holy Doctors, teaches that to be purified of their faults previous to being admitted to Heaven, souls after death are subjected to a fire more penetrating, more dreadful than anything we can see, or feel, or conceive in this life.

"Though this fire is destined to cleanse and purify the soul, " adds the Holy Doctor, "still it is more acute than anything we could possibly endure on Earth. "

St. Cyril of Alexandria does not hesitate to say that "it would be preferable to suffer all the possible torments of Earth until the Judgment day than to pass one day in Purgatory. "

Another great Saint says: “Our fire, in comparison with the fire of Purgatory, is as a refreshing breeze.”

Source: Read Me or Rue It by Fr. Paul O’Sullivan

So, I believe the poor souls in purgatory do live the poorer existence. You and I can still avoid purgatory, and the suffering we have here on earth can no where come near what the poor souls suffer.

cont…