Can or Does True Islam exist?

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No . Look at the arab world. All dictators are hugely oppressing any Islamic movement within their countries. Look on the other hand to Malaysia or turkey. They have believing and practicing Muslim rulers. Islam thrives where free will is allowed to the people.
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Although, couldn’t the secularization of Turkey by Kemal Ataturk have something to do with its current situation of upholding democracy and not being an oppressive theocracy?
 
ralphinal said:
When something bad done in the name of Islam is done, we are told that this does not represent True Islam. In fairness to our Muslim friends, I would like to understand if True Islam exists today, if it ever did exist, and if it can exist.
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Of course.
 
I do not believe true Islam exists anymore. I think it stopped around the last Caliph many centuries ago.

I have yet to see any Islamic authority declare Osama Bin Laden Kafir yet.

I see Islam like protestantism - lots of competing opinions.
 
Bump 🙂

I just found this old thread and thought I’d bump it since we were discussing this topic on the other thread. A couple posts up Sister Amy said “Of Course” in response to the question:
When something bad done in the name of Islam is done, we are told that this does not represent True Islam. In fairness to our Muslim friends, I would like to understand if True Islam exists today, if it ever did exist, and if it can exist.
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Although, I don’t think Sister Amy has been around in order to ask her to expound on her response here. Perhaps other muslim posters can pick up the baton. 🤷
 
Muslim_Woman said:
…

**After the second coming of Jesus (pbuh) , we will surely see how he establishes peace & justice according to Islamic **laws. Till then , we must strive hard to obey God , follow His commands & gives importance on God’s laws rather than men made laws.
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Yes, I know she’s banned, but this line gets me always.

The thinking of muslims is that Jesus Christ will come to break the crosses and kill the swine and make islam the global religion just blows me away.

Horse poopies!

And in addition, he, Jesus will come to earth after doing all of that and he will die here… all for islam.

Muslims stick to their koran and they stick to their hadiths as long as it shows mohamad in a great light.

But the question is this where in the koran does it state that Christ will return to break the crosses, kill the swine & make islam the religion of the globe?

I wonder if CCC #841 took this in consideration since it states we all worship the same One True God.

It’s amazying that muslims can pick & choose hadiths and claim others, like the ones that show mohamad in a dark light are false.
 
jakasaki said:
Yes, I know she’s banned, but this line gets me always.

The thinking of muslims is that Jesus Christ will come to break the crosses and kill the swine and make islam the global religion just blows me away.

Horse poopies!

And in addition, he, Jesus will come to earth after doing all of that and he will die here… all for islam.

Muslims stick to their koran and they stick to their hadiths as long as it shows mohamad in a great light.

But the question is this where in the koran does it state that Christ will return to break the crosses, kill the swine & make islam the religion of the globe?

I wonder if CCC #841 took this in consideration since it states we all worship the same One True God.

It’s amazying that muslims can pick & choose hadiths and claim others, like the ones that show mohamad in a dark light are false.
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Oh no, not CCC #841!! 😃 Shhhh! Don’t let dzheremi see this! :onpatrol:
 
jakasaki said:
Yes, I know she’s banned, but this line gets me always.

The thinking of muslims is that Jesus Christ will come to break the crosses and kill the swine and make islam the global religion just blows me away.

Horse poopies!

And in addition, he, Jesus will come to earth after doing all of that and he will die here… all for islam.

Muslims stick to their koran and they stick to their hadiths as long as it shows mohamad in a great light.

But the question is this where in the koran does it state that Christ will return to break the crosses, kill the swine & make islam the religion of the globe?

I wonder if CCC #841 took this in consideration since it states we all worship the same One True God.

It’s amazying that muslims can pick & choose hadiths and claim others, like the ones that show mohamad in a dark light are false.
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INtend and profess does not mean right
 
ralphinal said:
INtend and profess does not mean right
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I know Ralph, I understand.

This is what we were discussing on a thread about CCC841 before your return to CAF.

You were gone for quite some time you know my dear… 😃

It’s a thread that DZheremi had started questioning 841.
 
Jay53 said:
I can’t find anything in the Quran - just the hadith.

Although in my search I came across this site which is just really creepy/alarming. I never heard of the white flag/black flag before. I’m not sure who these people are or what they stand for - i.e if they are anti-islam or not. 🤷 I guess I’d have to read more of their stuff.

islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1632&catid=209
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I love you Jay! 😃 Bless your heart.

Australian Islamist Monitor ~ Islam Under Scrutiny

That’s the link you posted so I believe they are “watching islam & muslims” on their continent.

I believe that anything that claims “monitor” is that they are out here with their eyes open.

I would like to hear from our muslim posters.

Where does the koran state that Jesus Christ will come, & break the Cross, & kill the swine and make islam the global religion.

Because as far as I know it’s NOT in the koran.

**
And another thing I want to know is why would Jesus kill the “swine”. **

Where did that come from?
 
I don’t see why it should matter whether or not “True Islam” exists or not. True Islam is just as anti-Christ as whatever is presented as “not true Islam”, so I don’t see much of a difference.

Also, you guys are hilarious sometimes. I got all my 841-angries out in the other thread, thankfully. 🙂
 
dzheremi said:
I don’t see why it should matter whether or not “True Islam” exists or not. True Islam is just as anti-Christ as whatever is presented as “not true Islam”, so I don’t see much of a difference.

Also, you guys are hilarious sometimes. I got all my 841-angries out in the other thread, thankfully. 🙂
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Ouch!!! You weren’t suppose to see this… 😃

I’ glad you are over this 841 issue, but have no fear my dear… we are true troopers… we will always attach the 841 with ““dzheremi”” 😛

And remember, us Christians, we have a sense of humor… 😃 It’s all in good fun!

I believe as you do, islam is the anti-Christ because of the passages in the koran & the hadiths.

What is written in there cannot be the words of God.

God did not deceive his children for over 6000 years.

** Christ is LORD
 
jakasaki said:
I believe as you do, islam is the anti-Christ because of the passages in the koran & the hadiths.

What is written in there cannot be the words of God.

God did not deceive his children for over 6000 years.

** Christ is LORD
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Amen!
 
PA650 said:
Although, couldn’t the secularization of Turkey by Kemal Ataturk have something to do with its current situation of upholding democracy and not being an oppressive theocracy?
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This is a dubious argument, as Mustafa Kemal was not much of a democrat and neither was the state he founded after WWI. In fact Turkey was a one-party dictatorship during his rule and until 1950. This was then followed by a quasi-democracy where political parties were routinely banned for diverging from Kemalist ideology and the ultra-secularist military was constantly interfering with politics whenever they felt the elected government was getting out of line; including coups in 1960, 1971, 1980, 1997 and an attempted coup against the current government that was foiled last year.

Considering how this issue is often portrayed in the West, it’s an ironic fact that Turkey has been a far more democratic country from 2002 to the present with an “Islamist” government than it ever was beforehand.
 
jakasaki said:
I know Ralph, I understand.

This is what we were discussing on a thread about CCC841 before your return to CAF.

You were gone for quite some time you know my dear… 😃

It’s a thread that DZheremi had started questioning 841.
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I needed the time away. Between work and the challenge to my charity that this site can present. I missed you guys and prayed for you.

I saw that thread.
dzheremi said:
I don’t see why it should matter whether or not “True Islam” exists or not. True Islam is just as anti-Christ as whatever is presented as “not true Islam”, so I don’t see much of a difference.

Also, you guys are hilarious sometimes. I got all my 841-angries out in the other thread, thankfully. 🙂
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I can’t see much differance, either. Even if you set aside the religious aspects, I see people not afforded basic human dignity.

I am glad that venting helped you. Sometimes, we all feel like Lt. Dan on Forrest Gump and want to scream at God.
 
It’s good to have you back here, Ralph, and thanks for your empathetic words. “Help” isn’t really the word I would use; it’s actually a giant bummer, but either way I’m glad the thread is buried by now.

Kadaveri: Can you at least understand where our confusion lies? On one hand, the Qur’an says that Christians are not to be “argued with”, that the Qur’an is confirmed by the Bible, that we also worship one God, and on the other hand contradicts itself by ordering the exact opposite treatment of us, by saying that we’re destined for hell, etc.
 
dzheremi said:
Kadaveri: Can you at least understand where our confusion lies? On one hand, the Qur’an says that Christians are not to be “argued with”, that the Qur’an is confirmed by the Bible, that we also worship one God, and on the other hand contradicts itself by ordering the exact opposite treatment of us, by saying that we’re destined for hell, etc.
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I’m not sure you’ve posted this in the right thread but I’ll reply. I don’t know what in the Qur’an you’re referring to with ‘the Qur’an says that Christians are not to be argued with’ so I can’t answer this query.

The Qur’an doesn’t say that it is ‘confirmed by the Bible’, I think what you mean is when it says it confirms the Gospel. However by ‘Gospel’ it doesn’t mean the four gospels in the New Testament, but rather the teachings of Jesus Christ. The Qur’an does not accept everything in the gospels to have been the true teachings of Jesus, otherwise why does it so firmly reject any notion of him being divine? Rather the Qur’an confirms the Gospel by illuminating preserved truth and cleaning out falsehood.

The Qur’an does accept that Christians worship the one true God. However Christian monotheism is compromised by the belief that God has a triune nature; which although the Qur’an accepts is not actual polytheism, in practice there is little difference as this belief inevitably leads to worshipping the three hypostases as separate objects. Belief in Jesus being God incarnate is also a serious problem, as the Qur’an utterly rejects such a claim.

There can be no confusing the fact that the Qur’an calls upon Christians to accept it as the word of God, to abandon their belief in the Trinity, Divine Incarnation etc and to embrace Islam, and that to knowingly reject this is to reject God Himself, which has consequences.
 
Kadaveri said:
I’m not sure you’ve posted this in the right thread but I’ll reply. I don’t know what in the Qur’an you’re referring to with ‘the Qur’an says that Christians are not to be argued with’ so I can’t answer this query.
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Do’h. You’re right. I got the two threads confused. They were next to each other when I was replying. My apologies. Thank you for replying anyway.

The verse I was thinking of, by the way, is Pickthal translation of 29:46: And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender.
The Qur’an doesn’t say that it is ‘confirmed by the Bible’, I think what you mean is when it says it confirms the Gospel. However by ‘Gospel’ it doesn’t mean the four gospels in the New Testament, but rather the teachings of Jesus Christ.
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This stance seems to contradict what is in 29:46 above (particularly the “we believe in what has been revealed unto you” part), but…eh…wrong thread… 😊

(If there is a way for mods to move specific posts from this thread to the other thread, I don’t know what it is, but I’ll stop here so as to lessen their workload.)
 
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