Can pantheism be at all reconciled with Catholicism

[Riley259]

Can pantheism be at all reconciled with Catholicism. The obvious answer is no. Then how can people explicitly express a pantheistic theology and still call themselves a Catholic priest? One example is Fr. Tom Stella, a Catholic priest in Colorado who promotes his heretical theology in his books including a book called “The God Instinct”. How do we make this known to Church authorities so that he can be excommunicated. Any ideas? I just think it’s scandalous and dangerous for the Church that he’s publicly expressing these views.

 

[Liberian]

Riley,

While pantheism cannot be reconciled with Catholicism, there are elements of pantheism (such as the need to respect nature) that can. I would also note that there are many statements which, if interpreted one way, are completely and flatly heretical, but which if interpreted a different way are theologically correct.

The first step will be to get your hands on one of Fr. Stella’s books and read it. You need to do that to make sure that you are reading what he has written and not what other people have said he has written. (There is a serious difference.) You need to make sure that what he says really is heretical and cannot be interpreted in an orthodox way. I suggest that you get a few other well-educated people to help you in this effort so that it is not just your personal opinion.

If you then find that Fr. Stella’s statements are indeed definitely heretical and feel that God is calling you to alert the Church about Fr. Stella, the first step in this is to write to his bishop. I am sure that the bishop has already received hundreds of complaints about Fr. Stella, most of them vague and abusive, or at least dealing in generalities and filled with negative emotion. If you want the bishop to take your letter seriously, you will need to be very specific and factual: “Fr. Stella has said this” (and give book, edition, chapter, page, and line number–any investigator will have to check your facts, and you want to make it as easy as possible for him) “which I think is in contradiction to the Church’s teachings in that way” (and again, you will need to cite Catechism paragraphs, Council documents down to the line number, and so on).

Before you write to the bishop, you may want to write to Fr. Stella and express your concerns. Again you will need to be very specific about exactly where you think his book contradicts Catholic teaching and how. You should also invite him to explain to you how he reconciles his thoughts with the teachings of the Catholic Church. If he says “The Church doesn’t actually teach this, but she should,” then it would be good to write him back and ask him to repeat this to you for you to quote him in public. (Private correspondence should stay private.)

I wish you well in your endeavor.

• Liberian

 

[Riley259]

Riley,

While pantheism cannot be reconciled with Catholicism, there are elements of pantheism (such as the need to respect nature) that can. I would also note that there are many statements which, if interpreted one way, are completely and flatly heretical, but which if interpreted a different way are theologically correct.

The first step will be to get your hands on one of Fr. Stella’s books and read it. You need to do that to make sure that you are reading what he has written and not what other people have said he has written. (There is a serious difference.) You need to make sure that what he says really is heretical and cannot be interpreted in an orthodox way. I suggest that you get a few other well-educated people to help you in this effort so that it is not just your personal opinion.

If you then find that Fr. Stella’s statements are indeed definitely heretical and feel that God is calling you to alert the Church about Fr. Stella, the first step in this is to write to his bishop. I am sure that the bishop has already received hundreds of complaints about Fr. Stella, most of them vague and abusive, or at least dealing in generalities and filled with negative emotion. If you want the bishop to take your letter seriously, you will need to be very specific and factual: “Fr. Stella has said this” (and give book, edition, chapter, page, and line number–any investigator will have to check your facts, and you want to make it as easy as possible for him) “which I think is in contradiction to the Church’s teachings in that way” (and again, you will need to cite Catechism paragraphs, Council documents down to the line number, and so on).

Before you write to the bishop, you may want to write to Fr. Stella and express your concerns. Again you will need to be very specific about exactly where you think his book contradicts Catholic teaching and how. You should also invite him to explain to you how he reconciles his thoughts with the teachings of the Catholic Church. If he says “The Church doesn’t actually teach this, but she should,” then it would be good to write him back and ask him to repeat this to you for you to quote him in public. (Private correspondence should stay private.)

I wish you well in your endeavor.

• Liberian

Thanks so much for your response. I read “The God Instinct” and I assure you it is in clear contradiction to orthodox Catholic teaching - he is indeed espousing pantheism. Those are excellent suggestions.

 

[Ahimsa]

Thanks so much for your response. I read “The God Instinct” and I assure you it is in clear contradiction to orthodox Catholic teaching - he is indeed espousing pantheism. Those are excellent suggestions.

Could you provide a quote, an example, of pantheism in the book?

 

[Contarini]

Can pantheism be at all reconciled with Catholicism. The obvious answer is no. Then how can people explicitly express a pantheistic theology and still call themselves a Catholic priest? One example is Fr. Tom Stella, a Catholic priest in Colorado who promotes his heretical theology in his books including a book called “The God Instinct”. How do we make this known to Church authorities so that he can be excommunicated. Any ideas? I just think it’s scandalous and dangerous for the Church that he’s publicly expressing these views.

Are you saying that He denies that God has any existence beyond or independently of the universe, so that if there were no universe there would be no God? That is pantheism.

Saying that God is “in everything,” for instance, is not pantheism but orthodox Christianity (read Aquinas).

Many people call themselves “panentheists,” which in my opinion can be either orthodox or heretical depending on how it’s defined. Generally the people who trumpet this term define it in a heretical way (denying that God could work miracles, for instance). But the term could be used to cover orthodox theologies such as that of Aquinas.

Aquinas refutes a particular kind of pantheism in *Summa Contra Gentiles *1.26: “That God is not the Abstract or Formal Being of All Things.”

Edwin

 

[Riley259]

Are you saying that He denies that God has any existence beyond or independently of the universe, so that if there were no universe there would be no God? That is pantheism.

Saying that God is “in everything,” for instance, is not pantheism but orthodox Christianity (read Aquinas).

Many people call themselves “panentheists,” which in my opinion can be either orthodox or heretical depending on how it’s defined. Generally the people who trumpet this term define it in a heretical way (denying that God could work miracles, for instance). But the term could be used to cover orthodox theologies such as that of Aquinas.

Aquinas refutes a particular kind of pantheism in *Summa Contra Gentiles *1.26: “That God is not the Abstract or Formal Being of All Things.”

Edwin

Although he does source Aquinas, Merton and others, he takes their material (including the one on Aquinas that you cited) out of context to validate his own ideas. In his most recent book, “A Faith Worth Believing”, he essentially dismisses the idea of sacraments and liturgical worship. I’d like to hear from others who have read his stuff to see if they felt the same way that I did.

 

[Contarini]

Although he does source Aquinas, Merton and others, he takes their material (including the one on Aquinas that you cited) out of context to validate his own ideas. In his most recent book, “A Faith Worth Believing”, he essentially dismisses the idea of sacraments and liturgical worship. I’d like to hear from others who have read his stuff to see if they felt the same way that I did.

But why aren’t you giving us any specifics?

What does he say that makes him a pantheist? Similarly, when you say he “essentially” dismisses the sacraments, what exactly does this mean?

How does he take Aquinas out of context?

Edwin

 

[StCsDavid]

I suppose the first course of action if you believe one is needed with this priest is to bring it to the attention of his bishop. Failing there, you could run it up the flag pole all the way to Rome. I haven’t read the book, but if this priest is simply stating his opinion and not saying that this is what the church teaches, it’s likely to be treated by the powers that be as an annoyance versus a heresy. I would also write to the priest and tell him your concerns and where you believe he has gone astray from Catholic teaching. Then, shake the dust from your feet and leave him behind. There are plenty more out there willing and needing to hear the truth of the Gospel.

 

[Riley259]

But why aren’t you giving us any specifics?

What does he say that makes him a pantheist? Similarly, when you say he “essentially” dismisses the sacraments, what exactly does this mean?

How does he take Aquinas out of context?

Edwin

I currently don’t have the book, “The God Instinct” in my possession (it was borrowed) so I can’t quote exact passages for you at this time. I’d suggest you borrow the book yourself and read it to see if what I’m saying is accurate. I just have a concern with an active Catholic priest so publically endorsing a worldview (pantheism) that is so contrary to theism and the Catholic faith.

 

[Contarini]

I currently don’t have the book, “The God Instinct” in my possession (it was borrowed) so I can’t quote exact passages for you at this time. I’d suggest you borrow the book yourself and read it to see if what I’m saying is accurate. I just have a concern with an active Catholic priest so publically endorsing a worldview (pantheism) that is so contrary to theism and the Catholic faith.

But you haven’t defined pantheism or given an example. If you remember the book well enough to think that it’s heretical, surely you remember the specific ideas that were heretical. How can you consider complaining to the bishop about this when you can’t remember the book well enough to say what is wrong with it?

I’m pushing you on this because it’s really easy to think in labels–that sounds pantheistic so it must be heretical. If you can’t summarize what specific argument or view is heretical, you are in no position to say that the book is heretical at all. If you can’t define what is pantheistic about the book, you have no business using the label in the first place.

Edwin

 

[Maranatha]

Here is one book review on Amazon.xom from his first book: A Faith worth Believing:

This book is pure heresy clothed in feel-good, new age sounding terminology. The author blatantly states that he doesn’t believe in the basic dogmas of the Christian faith, such as the virgin birth, the physical resurrection, or what he calls the “traditional” redemption and atonement of Jesus Christ. He also does not take the bible at all literally. Granted, there is much spiritual depth to scripture; however, excessive spiritualizing of scripture can lead to this type of “enlightened” Christianity. His concepts are not Christian, but emphasize the divine nature of mankind while downplaying the role and true divinity of Christ. This is all subtly concealed under the guise of a re-interpretation of the “true” gospel message. Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of scripture can see the errors in the author’s observations and conclusions.

The author has dabbled in mysticism - unfortunately not Christian mysticism as experienced by the myriad of saints of the Roman Catholic Church. This book should in no way serve as a reflection of catholicism for anyone seeking to discover the true Roman Catholic faith.

 

[Maranatha]

Here is another book review that describes how Fr. Tom Stella defines pantheism:

I hoped to find a great amount of content from this Catholic Priest. I have long suffered the issues of guilt in the same religion and the fear of God was about being afraid of messing up in life rather than having a healthy fear of the Lord.
Father Tom accurately describes that guilt issue. However, instead of expressing how he found the Lord to be a forgiving God and that we are in need of accepting His grace, Tom moves into a diatribe of Panentheism and peppers most of the book with this type of theology that has proven inconsistent in and of itself. If you don’t know, Panentheism is a way of explaining that “Everything is in God”. At the surface that sounds great. But there is more to it. It also ascribes that God is so intertwined in the creation that he cannot live apart from it. Man. That is a leap…since God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, and He was so BEFORE he made the earth.
OK>…so you see. Tom moves away from a real answer to the guilt issue to explain a theology that has no foundation in truth.
If you want the guilt answer…doooo noooott buy this book. Instead, buy a bible. Holman Press just came out with a great one. Read the first few verses of Romans chapter 8. Then buy a couple of great commentaries that discuss them. If you want the short answer. Hear it is. “We are not ever going to be good enough. And that is OK. God forgives all of us. Just accept that fact.” Don’t stop trying though. It helps others see the Good in GOD when they see it. Being good is not for going to heaven. It is to help show others that there is a good God to go to heaven to see!

 

[Contarini]

Here is another book review that describes how Fr. Tom Stella defines pantheism:

It sounds as if he’s actually using the term “panentheism,” not pantheism. However, the problem is that everyone wants to say “panentheism” and it can mean a lot of things. It certainly sounds as if (assuming these reviews are accurate) the guy is a heretic. If he says God can’t exist apart from the world, that’s one of the oldest heresies out there. He should not be allowed to function as a priest (not that I have any business saying this–we have bishops who are at least as heretical).

The other book sounds heretical too, though of course you can’t go too much by amazon.com reviews.

Edwin

 

[Maranatha]

It sounds as if he’s actually using the term “panentheism,” not pantheism. However, the problem is that everyone wants to say “panentheism” and it can mean a lot of things. It certainly sounds as if (assuming these reviews are accurate) the guy is a heretic. If he says God can’t exist apart from the world, that’s one of the oldest heresies out there. He should not be allowed to function as a priest (not that I have any business saying this–we have bishops who are at least as heretical).

The other book sounds heretical too, though of course you can’t go too much by amazon.com reviews.

Edwin

I agree with the IF. I haven’t read the book but Bishop Sheridan of the Diocese of Colorado Springs is a holy man and IF the reviews are acurate, then we have not only a right but an obligation to bring this to his attention.

Apparently Fr. Stella is not currently serving in a parish. He is executive director of Soul Link which is non-for profit spiritual ministry. If you review of their web site you’ll notice that non of their meetings take place on Catholic property. It is possible that Fr. Stella does not have faculties from his Bishop.

 

[Riley259]

I agree with the IF. I haven’t read the book but Bishop Sheridan of the Diocese of Colorado Springs is a holy man and IF the reviews are acurate, then we have not only a right but an obligation to bring this to his attention.

Apparently Fr. Stella is not currently serving in a parish. He is executive director of Soul Link which is non-for profit spiritual ministry. If you review of their web site you’ll notice that non of their meetings take place on Catholic property. It is possible that Fr. Stella does not have faculties from his Bishop.

Based on some of the responses to my original post, I decided to write both the author (Stella) and his bishop (Michael Sheridan). I haven’t yet heard from Stella but Bishop Sheridan responded very quickly and said that for a time Stella was a priest in his diocese but it is his understanding that Stella has left his order (Congregation for the Holy Cross) and the priesthood. The Bishop asked that we all pray for Tom Stella.

 

[Damascus]

Based on some of the responses to my original post, I decided to write both the author (Stella) and his bishop (Michael Sheridan). I haven’t yet heard from Stella but Bishop Sheridan responded very quickly and said that for a time Stella was a priest in his diocese but it is his understanding that Stella has left his order (Congregation for the Holy Cross) and the priesthood. The Bishop asked that we all pray for Tom Stella.

Is that Opus Dei? Congregation of the Holy Cross?

How could someone from Opus Dei be doing this? They have excellent formation- I hope its not true.

 

[Maranatha]

Based on some of the responses to my original post, I decided to write both the author (Stella) and his bishop (Michael Sheridan). I haven’t yet heard from Stella but Bishop Sheridan responded very quickly and said that for a time Stella was a priest in his diocese but it is his understanding that Stella has left his order (Congregation for the Holy Cross) and the priesthood. The Bishop asked that we all pray for Tom Stella.

His biography at Harper Collins still refers to him as a Catholic Priest. I would think that his Bishop would know for certain and not just have an understanding. Dissenters like to keep the Catholic label because it brings in extra book revenue. If he keeps calling himself a Catholic priest, I would hope it’s publicly actionable under cannon law.

 

[Damascus]

His biography at Harper Collins still refers to him as a Catholic Priest. I would think that his Bishop would know for certain and not just have an understanding. Dissenters like to keep the Catholic label because it brings in extra book revenue. If he keeps calling himself a Catholic priest, I would hope it’s publicly actionable under cannon law.

But - if he is Opus Dei as I asked earlier- I dont know what the protocol would be. The Bishop only approves their presence. I dont think he has any authority over him -

thats why I asked.

Its the same- sort of- with Jesuits really too.

 

[Contarini]

But - if he is Opus Dei as I asked earlier- I dont know what the protocol would be. The Bishop only approves their presence. I dont think he has any authority over him -

thats why I asked.

Its the same- sort of- with Jesuits really too.

The CSC has nothing to do with Opus Dei. It’s the order that founded and runs Notre Dame.

Edwin

 

[Damascus]

The CSC has nothing to do with Opus Dei. It’s the order that founded and runs Notre Dame.

Edwin

Thanks Edwin!

I was really hoping. I know the words holy cross are connected to OD, but there are too many orders to keep up with.

You are on the ball!