Can people choose to be spriritual and live a loving life?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Serap
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Serap

Guest
I know people that believe there’s a God and live their life with kindness and compassion. They may have been raised Catholic or Protestant, but have chosen not to follow those faiths. They have chosen to live a good wholesome life knowing that there is a God, but they are not sure what God is.

They believe that all religions pray to the same God, and it’s a shame that so many wars are based on religion. They choose to not have any religion and choose to be spiritual.

Any thougths? Many good people feel this way.
 
I They choose to not have any religion and choose to be spiritual.

Any thougths? Many good people feel this way.
Religion is the virtue of giving God in justice the worship that is due to him. Whatever being “spiritual” means varies among individuals, and if that individual has rejected God and denies the necessity of giving God his due, then spirituality becomes merely what feels good, hardly a valid basis for personal growth.
 
A difficulty with being merely “spiritual” is that it puts the person first, not God. Being spiritual chiefly consists of fitting God into a scheme of one’s own choosing. But if God is God, that just can’t work. God is the creator; we are the creatures; it is God, not the creature, who must take precedence in the scheme of things.

And that is how trying to be “loving” can run into difficulties in such a spiritual scheme. What is the test for what is, and what is not, consistent with being loving, and what is the basis of the test? Human nature being what it is, people who set themselves up as arbiters of what is and isn’t loving tend to be a wee bit biased in favour of their own best interests.

The whole concept of God can get warped in these spiritual schemes, and many spiritual schemes degenerate into a rather vague monism.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
A difficulty with being merely “spiritual” is that it puts the person first, not God. Being spiritual chiefly consists of fitting God into a scheme of one’s own choosing. But if God is God, that just can’t work. God is the creator; we are the creatures; it is God, not the creature, who must take precedence in the scheme of things.

And that is how trying to be “loving” can run into difficulties in such a spiritual scheme. What is the test for what is, and what is not, consistent with being loving, and what is the basis of the test? Human nature being what it is, people who set themselves up as arbiters of what is and isn’t loving tend to be a wee bit biased in favour of their own best interests.

The whole concept of God can get warped in these spiritual schemes, and many spiritual schemes degenerate into a rather vague monism.

Blessings,

Gerry
No, I’m referring to someone here who puts his/her family first…they are selfless and kind hearted. They give to the poor. They are a model citizen.

However, they consider themselves to be spiritual.

I’m not talking about a self-centred money hungry person here at all.

I know many people like this and they are good geniune people; they are kinder than most people who call themselves “regligious”.
 
People can choose to do whatever they want; including being spiritual and living a loving life. Lucky for us ALL (no matter what religion/ faith practice you abide by) god judges usin the end - not people. Those who say they are sure someone is going to heaven or hell really do not know. It is ultimately up to God.

Annie
 
People can choose to do whatever they want; including being spiritual and living a loving life. Lucky for us ALL (no matter what religion/ faith practice you abide by) god judges usin the end - not people. Those who say they are sure someone is going to heaven or hell really do not know. It is ultimately up to God.

Annie
I tend to agree with this. Many here state that someone is in mortal sin if they are given the truth (grew up a Catholic) and then choose not to be a Catholic anymore. They are in mortal sin for various reasons like being openly gay, cohabitating, etc., despite how kind hearted and giving they are as a person.

I just don’t buy it.
 
I know people that believe there’s a God and live their life with kindness and compassion. They may have been raised Catholic or Protestant, but have chosen not to follow those faiths. They have chosen to live a good wholesome life knowing that there is a God, but they are not sure what God is.

They believe that all religions pray to the same God, and it’s a shame that so many wars are based on religion. They choose to not have any religion and choose to be spiritual.

Any thougths? Many good people feel this way.
We are friends with an Atheist couple, DH has been friends with him 25 + years. They do lots of nice things, give to charities, volunteer work.

He has said he doesn’t believe in God…and that If DH chooses to believe, that’s something DH needs.

🤷

I lived “spiritually” for a number of years…but by living spiritually God doesn’t come first…so for example, on a Sunday, instead of going to Mass, I would spend time with DH, and family.

I think by following that path…I would have come dangerously close to or actually breaking the First Commandment.

Look at Mother Theresa. She served the poor, tirelessly. She did it to serve Christ…not instead of Christ
 
We are friends with an Atheist couple, DH has been friends with him 25 + years. They do lots of nice things, give to charities, volunteer work.

He has said he doesn’t believe in God…and that If DH chooses to believe, that’s something DH needs.

🤷

I lived “spiritually” for a number of years…but by living spiritually God doesn’t come first…so for example, on a Sunday, instead of going to Mass, I would spend time with DH, and family.

I think by following that path…I would have come dangerously close to or actually breaking the First Commandment.

Look at Mother Theresa. She served the poor, tirelessly. She did it to serve Christ…not instead of Christ
Mother Theresa was in a league of her own. I admire her tremendously.

As for your Athiest friends, they many have grown up Catholic and then just didn’t believe it anymore at a certain point in their life.

When I meet people like this, I do not understand their stance, but I still respect it. I see many loving, peaceful people who do not have any religion in their lives and it just makes me wonder.

There must be room in Heaven for good people even if they are not good for Christ per se, but they are good for humanity sake.
 
Mother Theresa was in a league of her own. I admire her tremendously.

As for your Athiest friends, they many have grown up Catholic and then just didn’t believe it anymore at a certain point in their life.

When I meet people like this, I do not understand their stance, but I still respect it. I see many loving, peaceful people who do not have any religion in their lives and it just makes me wonder.

There must be room in Heaven for good people even if they are not good for Christ per se, but they are good for humanity sake.
Actually he was raised atheist, by two former Jews.

Mother Theresa will be declared a Saint. Which means she is definately in heaven.

We are alll called to Sainthood…and as Catholics we are given a pretty good map on how to get there.

I cannot judge my friend…he has no real understanding of God. God is merciful…

But I do feel sad when Catholics decide that the Faith is too difficult to live.

Mother Theresa was given the same gift we have. She chose to embrace it totally. She gave to God so much more.

Jesus speaks of that in the parables.
 
I know people that believe there’s a God and live their life with kindness and compassion. They may have been raised Catholic or Protestant, but have chosen not to follow those faiths. They have chosen to live a good wholesome life knowing that there is a God, but they are not sure what God is.

They believe that all religions pray to the same God, and it’s a shame that so many wars are based on religion. They choose to not have any religion and choose to be spiritual.

Any thougths? Many good people feel this way.
I know what you’re talking about. I know many many people who are good, morally upright, generous and kind individuals who are not Catholic, or who are following another religion or who are doing so loosely. I reject the notion that those following other religions, or following another way of life, will be damned to hell on soley those grounds.

I think those who believe in the Church, and who understand the teachings of the Church, but who refuse to follow the teachings due to selfish reasons, or obstinance, will be punished before those who are truly unknowledgeable and truly unbelieving – if they will be punished at all.

Faith is not magic. You’re not going to magically believe just because an outside party tells you to. There are good people in the world, and they’re not all Catholic. In fact, the most miserable and difficult people I have ever known have been Catholic. Being Catholic isn’t a free ticket to heaven you know…

For example, I have a friend who was born and raised Baptist. I’ve never met a kinder person, a more generous person. He lived his life as the Church teaches us to live. He was more “Christian” than any other Catholic I knew or know. But he wasn’t Catholic. And he didn’t attend his church services…but it wasn’t a requirement of his church. He passed away last Easter…there is no doubt in my mind that he is with God. No one can convince me that he went to Hell just because he wasn’t Catholic. And why would he be really? He wasn’t born Catholic, he wasn’t raised Catholic, and as such, he had no interest in it at all. He had his own faith to follow.

Another friend of mine is of the Church of Christ. Same senario. He’s kind, generous, truthful, stands on a high moral plain, taught his kids the same. Well I very seriously doubt that he will be punished just because he’s not Catholic. Why, in fact, would he be? He has his own faith, and follows it like any Catholic is supposed to follow the Catholic faith.

People who have chosen not to follow the faith they were born into don’t believe in those religions, and don’t subscribe to the teachings of that religion. That doesn’t mean that they won’t someday return to their faith. But for whatever reason, they’re not in communion with the religion they were born into. If they aren’t sure what God is, they’re confused about their beliefs. God can’t be the God of Mercy and then smite someone because they’re confused, unknowledgeable and unbelieving. If they’re doing their best to figure it out and haven’t made it quite there yet, it would be the same as spanking a 6 month old for making a mistake. But I guess there are people here that do that … but they’re not God 😃
 
Hi Rence!
I think those who believe in the Church, and who understand the teachings of the Church, but who refuse to follow the teachings due to selfish reasons, or obstinance, will be punished before those who are truly unknowledgeable and truly unbelieving – if they will be punished at all.
I tend to agree…the only difference is God doesn’t punish…He doesn’t force anyone to come to Him.

He knows where we all are, and i tend to think He is very generous and merciful…but also just…I also would not to test His Mercy.

If we read the Gospels, Jesus has a number of parables about separating goats and sheep, giving gifts and responsibilities…and not living up to them.
 
Hi Mary Gail 🙂
Hi Rence!

I tend to agree…the only difference is God doesn’t punish…He doesn’t force anyone to come to Him.
I think I agree with that too. Although, I do think he punishes wrongdoers/evil doers. And I think there is a difference between doing wrong/being evil, and making poor choices through life. One really can’t learn unless they’ve made mistakes, or have learned from the mistakes of others.
He knows where we all are, and i tend to think He is very generous and merciful…but also just…I also would not to test His Mercy.
I agree we should not test His Mercy as well 🙂
If we read the Gospels, Jesus has a number of parables about separating goats and sheep, giving gifts and responsibilities…and not living up to them.
That can be interpreted a number of ways, including what it means to live up to our responsibilities or utilizing our gifts. Those parables are also very encouraging because that also means that God didn’t make everyone to be the same exact replicas of each other.
 
I tend to agree with this. Many here state that someone is in mortal sin if they are given the truth (grew up a Catholic) and then choose not to be a Catholic anymore. They are in mortal sin for various reasons like being openly gay, cohabitating, etc., despite how kind hearted and giving they are as a person.

I just don’t buy it.
Our salvation is not about our goodness, but rather the goodness of God. We all fall short, regardless of how good we may appear. Bishop Fulton Sheen said that “sin is not the worst thing in the world. The denial of sin is the worst thing in the world.” This is most applicable today. People wish to live in a manner that pleases them, with no consquences, and therefore deny that they are living in sin. The fact that they may be kind hearted and giving in other ways does not mitigate the sin in their lives. They require a Savior, as do all of us. If they reject this fact, and do not turn away from their sin, then they have rejected their salvation.
 
Our salvation is not about our goodness, but rather the goodness of God. We all fall short, regardless of how good we may appear. Bishop Fulton Sheen said that “sin is not the worst thing in the world. The denial of sin is the worst thing in the world.” This is most applicable today. People wish to live in a manner that pleases them, with no consquences, and therefore deny that they are living in sin. The fact that they may be kind hearted and giving in other ways does not mitigate the sin in their lives. They require a Savior, as do all of us. If they reject this fact, and do not turn away from their sin, then they have rejected their salvation.
But it does not mean they will not have salvation. It also does not mean that someone knowingly rejected their salvation if they do not believe that it exists.

Remember, I"m talking about people who are good selfless people. I’m not referring to wordly people. Let’s keep the distinction.
 
=Serap;7803278]I know people that believe there’s a God and live their life with kindness and compassion. They may have been raised Catholic or Protestant, but have chosen not to follow those faiths. They have chosen to live a good wholesome life knowing that there is a God, but they are not sure what God is.
They believe that all religions pray to the same God, and it’s a shame that so many wars are based on religion. They choose to not have any religion and choose to be spiritual.
Any thougths? Many good people feel this way.
As I read your question is SEEMS TO ME to a typical Protestant one. PLEASE allow me to expain.

You, me, I, us are all secondary. It is what God Commands; what God demand, and What God desires; NOT at all about our persoanl likes and dislikes; preference and will do this but not that.

Humanity is put here for a very precise and rather symplistic choice: Know, Love, Serve, Obey and Thank God [the wany and manner in which He tells us too]; or choose NOT TOO. **Isa.43 Verses 7,21: “**every one who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made." AND the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise.”

This means to be Baptized as a Chrsitian and to Live that Faith as Christ commands. There are over 100 references to ONLY One Faith; One Church as being acceptable [not meaning accepted], by God Clearly all of the key;s to heaven; meaning all access to heaven flows through the CC [Mt. 16:19, 18:18, John20:15-18, Mt. 28:19-20]. Not as an option but as a single COMMAND from God…

**Eph. 4: 1-7 **“I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. **There is one body [WHICH MEANS ONE CHURCH] **and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, [Meaning only One set of beliefs] one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

**“He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.” **

And Paul and the Church approved by Christ teach this:

Heb.6 Verses 4 to 10: "For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, Baptized into Christianity/ Catholism] who have tasted the heavenly gift,[Catholic Holy Communion] and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,[Been Confirmed which is a personal Covenant Relationship] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God [Been taught from the Bible] and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned. "

Keeping in mind that the ONLY Unforgivable sin is denail of God; those you ask about at a GREAT peril of looing there souls!

It’s not what we find acceptacle BUT only What God Finds acceptable that matters in the final anayalisis. God offers sufficient GRACE to every person to come to know and accept Him. Those who for selfesh reasons choose not will pay for there life choices.

Heb.6: 10 “For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do.”

**Rev.2: 23 **“and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.”

**1 Peter 1: 17 **“Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one’s works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning, “

God Bless you and thanks for asking.

Pat
 
As I read your question is SEEMS TO ME to a typical Protestant one. PLEASE allow me to expain.

You, me, I, us are all secondary. It is what God Commands; what God demand, and What God desires; NOT at all about our persoanl likes and dislikes; preference and will do this but not that.

Humanity is put here for a very precise and rather symplistic choice: Know, Love, Serve, Obey and Thank God [the wany and manner in which He tells us too]; or choose NOT TOO. **Isa.43 Verses 7,21: “**every one who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made." AND the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise.”

This means to be Baptized as a Chrsitian and to Live that Faith as Christ commands. There are over 100 references to ONLY One Faith; One Church as being acceptable [not meaning accepted], by God Clearly all of the key;s to heaven; meaning all access to heaven flows through the CC [Mt. 16:19, 18:18, John20:15-18, Mt. 28:19-20]. Not as an option but as a single COMMAND from God…

**Eph. 4: 1-7 **“I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. **There is one body [WHICH MEANS ONE CHURCH] **and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, [Meaning only One set of beliefs] one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

**“He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.” **

And Paul and the Church approved by Christ teach this:

Heb.6 Verses 4 to 10: "For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, Baptized into Christianity/ Catholism] who have tasted the heavenly gift,[Catholic Holy Communion] and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,[Been Confirmed which is a personal Covenant Relationship] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God [Been taught from the Bible] and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned. "

Keeping in mind that the ONLY Unforgivable sin is denail of God; those you ask about at a GREAT peril of looing there souls!

It’s not what we find acceptacle BUT only What God Finds acceptable that matters in the final anayalisis. God offers sufficient GRACE to every person to come to know and accept Him. Those who for selfesh reasons choose not will pay for there life choices.

Heb.6: 10 “For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do.”

**Rev.2: 23 **“and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.”

**1 Peter 1: 17 **“Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one’s works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning, “

God Bless you and thanks for asking.

Pat
Yes, but this person has NO relgious beliefs. He is neither Protestant or Catholic.

So, no this is not a Protestant perspective.

Although, I see where you are coming from.
 
I know people that believe there’s a God and live their life with kindness and compassion. They may have been raised Catholic or Protestant, but have chosen not to follow those faiths. They have chosen to live a good wholesome life knowing that there is a God, but they are not sure what God is.

They believe that all religions pray to the same God, and it’s a shame that so many wars are based on religion. They choose to not have any religion and choose to be spiritual.

Any thougths? Many good people feel this way.
It might be useful if you explained what you mean by “spiritual”, “good”, and “selfless”. There are, for example, many “spiritual” creatures–angels AND demons. A medium, for example, might invoke certain “spirits”, which every priest I’ve ever spoken with about it says are actually demons. And…even demons can, in their lies and trickery, perform acts that appear to be “good” or “selfless”, when in fact they are not, but only look that way so as to achieve evil ends. Just a thought :).
 
But it does not mean they will not have salvation. It also does not mean that someone knowingly rejected their salvation if they do not believe that it exists.

Remember, I"m talking about people who are good selfless people. I’m not referring to wordly people. Let’s keep the distinction.
What do you mean by selfless? We all have selves, and we serve other selves in some capacity. However, we always must realize that God comes first, we serve him ultimately. One can do good deeds, but works without faith is empty. Loving your fellow man is only the second half of what Jesus taught. Otherwise, how do you know how to love?
 
There must be room in Heaven for good people even if they are not good for Christ per se, but they are good for humanity sake.
Are these people aware of the fact that they are not doing these acts of charity for Christ? Big difference.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top