Can people choose to be spriritual and live a loving life?

[PJM]

=Serap;7807904]Yes, but this person has NO relgious beliefs. He is neither Protestant or Catholic.

So, no this is not a Protestant perspective.

Although, I see where you are coming from.

Unless this person has NO [zip;Zero; None] OPPORTUNITY to know God, because God OBLIGATES Himself to give to everyone SUFFICIENT GRACE to know Him; the odds are not favorable for eternal bliss.

If and ONLY IF; one truly has NO OPPORTUNITY to know God [impossible I think in most civilized countries]; does God judge ONLY how one has lived there life in goddness and charity.

Being able to KNOW will be judged as KNOWING and choosing to DENY God.

God Bless you and your Family!,

Pat

 

[Publisher]

I know people that believe there’s a God and live their life with kindness and compassion. They may have been raised Catholic or Protestant, but have chosen not to follow those faiths. They have chosen to live a good wholesome life knowing that there is a God, but they are not sure what God is.

They believe that all religions pray to the same God, and it’s a shame that so many wars are based on religion. They choose to not have any religion and choose to be spiritual.

Any thougths? Many good people feel this way.

Quaker saint and mystic John Woolman wrote "There is a principle which is pure, placed in the human mind, which in different places and ages hath had different names. It is, however, pure and proceeds from God. It is deep and inward, confined to no forms of religion nor excluded from any, where the heart stands in perfect sincerity. In whomsoever this takes root and grows, of what nation soever they become brethren in the best sense of the expression. "

I say yes people can choose to live “inward and spiritual” and love and serve “the God Who is There”…“The God of their understanding.” and be in communion with the Lord, the Giver of Life.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

No, I’m referring to someone here who puts his/her family first…they are selfless and kind hearted. They give to the poor. They are a model citizen.

However, they consider themselves to be spiritual.

I’m not talking about a self-centred money hungry person here at all.

I know many people like this and they are good geniune people; they are kinder than most people who call themselves “regligious”.

Yes, and in doing all that, they put the creature before the Creator. One can consider one’s self spiritual, and be a polytheist, or even an animist, seeking to keep the spirits happy.

Actually, I wasn’t talking about the money-humgry, either. But when spirituality is of one’s own devising, it can be very plastic, especially when times are tough and hard choices present themselves.

There’s a troubling vagueness about spirituality (in the sense we are using the word). It would suggest, typically, that all roads lead to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which one a person takes. That would be true if people had built the roads, but what escapes the spiritual approach is that God built a road, and directed that it was the road to be used.

We must be careful, though. A person who opts for spirituality out of what is termed invincible ignorance (it sounds nasty, but it means they don’t know better and don’t have the wherewithal in their circumstances to learn better), and who follow their consciences to do what they perceive as good will be given grace, and enough of it for salvation. That Church teaching is in stark contrast to some fundamentalist Protestant distortions, that essentially claim these persons are damned. It means we must never underestimate the worth of what we commonly call a good heart, even though there is a better, more complete, way through Christ and His Church.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Ashurie]

I was baptised as a baby, Anglican. I had no religious up bringing what so-ever, I hated Religious Education classes at School, because it didn’t teach all religions of the world - this was also the same view of my mum. Once I was in high school, I began to explore spirituality, and continued to do so, that was until I came across seeking in the Archangels and Angels, my spirituality grew. This very spirituality has led me to loving God, and Jesus, and I have decided to become Catholic, but know deep down I won’t be a hardcore Catholic, as to me becoming Catholic, is to help my spirituality grow even more by coming closer to God and Jesus, and deepening my love for them.

 

[Serap]

Yes, and in doing all that, they put the creature before the Creator. One can consider one’s self spiritual, and be a polytheist, or even an animist, seeking to keep the spirits happy.

Actually, I wasn’t talking about the money-humgry, either. But when spirituality is of one’s own devising, it can be very plastic, especially when times are tough and hard choices present themselves.

There’s a troubling vagueness about spirituality (in the sense we are using the word). It would suggest, typically, that all roads lead to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which one a person takes. That would be true if people had built the roads, but what escapes the spiritual approach is that God built a road, and directed that it was the road to be used.

We must be careful, though. A person who opts for spirituality out of what is termed invincible ignorance (it sounds nasty, but it means they don’t know better and don’t have the wherewithal in their circumstances to learn better), and who follow their consciences to do what they perceive as good will be given grace, and enough of it for salvation. That Church teaching is in stark contrast to some fundamentalist Protestant distortions, that essentially claim these persons are damned. It means we must never underestimate the worth of what we commonly call a good heart, even though there is a better, more complete, way through Christ and His Church.

Blessings,

Gerry

Good post!

 

[Serap]

I was baptised as a baby, Anglican. I had no religious up bringing what so-ever, I hated Religious Education classes at School, because it didn’t teach all religions of the world - this was also the same view of my mum. Once I was in high school, I began to explore spirituality, and continued to do so, that was until I came across seeking in the Archangels and Angels, my spirituality grew. This very spirituality has led me to loving God, and Jesus, and I have decided to become Catholic, but know deep down I won’t be a hardcore Catholic, as to me becoming Catholic, is to help my spirituality grow even more by coming closer to God and Jesus, and deepening my love for them.

Good luck on your journey !

My mother is very spiritual. She prays to the angels and has “Angel Cards”. She has had so much pain in her life, that she can’t bring herself to practice her childhood Catholic faith. She was bounced around in French Canadian foster homes and was badly abused in one fo them. They were all Catholic and went to church every Sunday.

Her abuse was so bad, that she refuses to speak French; can vaguely remember the language and lost her French accent when she speaks.

My mother now has a very bitter attitude towards any Christian religion. She thinks they have many hypocrites and she refuses to believe.

I respect her stance and I honestly think that God would be very merciful upon her death.

 

[Ashurie]

Good luck on your journey !

My mother is very spiritual. She prays to the angels and has “Angel Cards”. She has had so much pain in her life, that she can’t bring herself to practice her childhood Catholic faith. She was bounced around in French Canadian foster homes and was badly abused in one fo them. They were all Catholic and went to church every Sunday.

Her abuse was so bad, that she refuses to speak French; can vaguely remember the language and lost her French accent when she speaks.

My mother now has a very bitter attitude towards any Christian religion. She thinks they have many hypocrites and she refuses to believe.

I respect her stance and I honestly think that God would be very merciful upon her death.

Thank you so much

I also have Angel Cards - Archangel Michael and Raphael ones (they have beautiful pictures of them), and have statues around my room - the biggest being Archangel Michael. I also have various Christian things around my room too, I have a large picture of St. Mary MacKillop of the Cross on my wall, along with prayer cards to Mother Mary, Jesus, and St. Therese “Little Flower”.

I try to look for the good in everyone, and respect everyone’s ideas and decisions, but there are times where I am concerned when a Christian (whether they are Catholic etc) are being truthful to themselves and God, when they judge other people for their ideas and beliefs etc, because I think to myself, “this is not what the Church teaches, right”.

And I have experienced that both on here and in real life, which I admit this is a huge turn off for me wanting to join the church, but then I am reminded I am joining for my relationship with Jesus and God…and I should do good how Jesus taught us.

Anyway, my mother is very similar to yours. She was a practising Anglican as a teen, but was put off big time for one reason or another, she claims that she doesn’t believe. But I think deep down she does believe, but does not wish to belong to any church. I hope this could be a similar case for your mother.

 

[Annie_B]

Good luck on your journey !

My mother is very spiritual. She prays to the angels and has “Angel Cards”. She has had so much pain in her life, that she can’t bring herself to practice her childhood Catholic faith. She was bounced around in French Canadian foster homes and was badly abused in one fo them. They were all Catholic and went to church every Sunday.

Her abuse was so bad, that she refuses to speak French; can vaguely remember the language and lost her French accent when she speaks.

My mother now has a very bitter attitude towards any Christian religion. She thinks they have many hypocrites and she refuses to believe.

I respect her stance and I honestly think that God would be very merciful upon her death.

God’s mercy endures forever! He understands your mom better than anyone and will keep her in His loving care in life and death. I truely believ that. Those who have sinned so against your mother will have to answer for what they did and the effect it has had on your mother and the way her life has been changed because of it.

Annie

 

[Serap]

Thank you so much

I also have Angel Cards - Archangel Michael and Raphael ones (they have beautiful pictures of them), and have statues around my room - the biggest being Archangel Michael. I also have various Christian things around my room too, I have a large picture of St. Mary MacKillop of the Cross on my wall, along with prayer cards to Mother Mary, Jesus, and St. Therese “Little Flower”.

I try to look for the good in everyone, and respect everyone’s ideas and decisions, but there are times where I am concerned when a Christian (whether they are Catholic etc) are being truthful to themselves and God, when they judge other people for their ideas and beliefs etc, because I think to myself, “this is not what the Church teaches, right”.

And I have experienced that both on here and in real life, which I admit this is a huge turn off for me wanting to join the church, but then I am reminded I am joining for my relationship with Jesus and God…and I should do good how Jesus taught us.

Anyway, my mother is very similar to yours. She was a practising Anglican as a teen, but was put off big time for one reason or another, she claims that she doesn’t believe. But I think deep down she does believe, but does not wish to belong to any church. I hope this could be a similar case for your mother.

Yes, our mothers are the same.

 

[Serap]

God’s mercy endures forever! He understands your mom better than anyone and will keep her in His loving care in life and death. I truely believ that. Those who have sinned so against your mother will have to answer for what they did and the effect it has had on your mother and the way her life has been changed because of it.

Annie

Thanks

 

[SteveVH]

But it does not mean they will not have salvation. It also does not mean that someone knowingly rejected their salvation if they do not believe that it exists.

Remember, I"m talking about people who are good selfless people. I’m not referring to wordly people. Let’s keep the distinction.

Only God can judge us, but hell is full of people who didn’t believe it existed. If our salvation depended simply on us being kind hearted God would have told us. He also would not have come to earth to suffer and die for us. Those who are completley ignorant of Jesus Christ still have the laws of God written upon their hearts and will be judged accordingly.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Only God can judge us, but hell is full of people who didn’t believe it existed. If our salvation depended simply on us being kind hearted God would have told us. He also would not have come to earth to suffer and die for us. Those who are completley ignorant of Jesus Christ still have the laws of God written upon their hearts and will be judged accordingly.

Yes and when one can’t totally agree with this, the time has come to stick to the teaching of the CC non-dogmatically till a greater understanding is acheived.

Today we have such far fetched thinking that in its divisions true evil like dictatorships, totaltarianism, communism, materialism, socialism etc are enabled to breed and grow.

Just study how Hitler was able to reach his peak in growth. And everything he did was legal by the social structure of his country.

Or the USSR with the Russian Orthodox Church before JP-II prevailed? There are so many examples its a wonder we haven’t learned the lesson yet. Its the same problems disquised with new costumes and different names

Look at Oprah Winfrey who was one of Obamas biggest backers btw. Why does she promote her own belief? Because it fits her lifestyle in comfortabilty and ego. No good reason in the over-all view of God or mankind.

God Bless, Gary

 

[Serap]

Yes and when one can’t totally agree with this, the time has come to stick to the teaching of the CC non-dogmatically till a greater understanding is acheived.

Today we have such far fetched thinking that in its divisions true evil like dictatorships, totaltarianism, communism, materialism, socialism etc are enabled to breed and grow.

Just study how Hitler was able to reach his peak in growth. And everything he did was legal by the social structure of his country.

Or the USSR with the Russian Orthodox Church before JP-II prevailed? There are so many examples its a wonder we haven’t learned the lesson yet. Its the same problems disquised with new costumes and different names

Look at Oprah Winfrey who was one of Obamas biggest backers btw. Why does she promote her own belief? Because it fits her lifestyle in comfortabilty and ego. No good reason in the over-all view of God or mankind.

God Bless, Gary

this is very judgemental.

 

[PJM]

=Ashurie;7809933]I was baptised as a baby, Anglican. I had no religious up bringing what so-ever, I hated Religious Education classes at School, because it didn’t teach all religions of the world - this was also the same view of my mum. Once I was in high school, I began to explore spirituality, and continued to do so, that was until I came across seeking in the Archangels and Angels, my spirituality grew. This very spirituality has led me to loving God, and Jesus, and I have decided to become Catholic, but know deep down I won’t be a hardcore Catholic, as to me becoming Catholic, is to help my spirituality grow even more by coming closer to God and Jesus, and deepening my love for them.

Not to discourage you dear friend; we are delighted with your decision:thumbsup:

You seem to be seeking TRUTH, which MUST BE Singular for every and particular issue, and you have done well. For ALL TRUTH on ALL matters of Faith beleif and Morals and Morality are CENTERED in the CC.

Mt. 16:19, 18:18; John 14:8-10, John 17:15-19, and John 20;19-23 will affirm this calim further certified ny Eph. 4:4-8.

One ought not plan on being a “part-time” Catholic as part of the requirement for entry into the 2,000 year CC is the Sacramentof Confirmation, which can be described as a Personal “I Believe” Covenant between you and Almighty God. Very serious stuff.

If you’d like to discuss our beliefs from BOTh a “what and a WHY / HOW” perspective send me a PM and I’ll help you out.

May God continue to Bless and Guide you!

Pat

 

[Serap]

Not to discourage you dear friend; we are delighted with your decision:thumbsup:

You seem to be seeking TRUTH, which MUST BE Singular for every and particular issue, and you have done well. For ALL TRUTH on ALL matters of Faith beleif and Morals and Morality are CENTERED in the CC.

Mt. 16:19, 18:18; John 14:8-10, John 17:15-19, and John 20;19-23 will affirm this calim further certified ny Eph. 4:4-8.

One ought not plan on being a “part-time” Catholic as part of the requirement for entry into the 2,000 year CC is the Sacramentof Confirmation, which can be described as a Personal “I Believe” Covenant between you and Almighty God. Very serious stuff.

If you’d like to discuss our beliefs from BOTh a “what and a WHY / HOW” perspective send me a PM and I’ll help you out.

May God continue to Bless and Guide you!

Pat

very nice response

 

[Ashurie]

Not to discourage you dear friend; we are delighted with your decision:thumbsup:

You seem to be seeking TRUTH, which MUST BE Singular for every and particular issue, and you have done well. For ALL TRUTH on ALL matters of Faith beleif and Morals and Morality are CENTERED in the CC.

Mt. 16:19, 18:18; John 14:8-10, John 17:15-19, and John 20;19-23 will affirm this calim further certified ny Eph. 4:4-8.

One ought not plan on being a “part-time” Catholic as part of the requirement for entry into the 2,000 year CC is the Sacramentof Confirmation, which can be described as a Personal “I Believe” Covenant between you and Almighty God. Very serious stuff.

If you’d like to discuss our beliefs from BOTh a “what and a WHY / HOW” perspective send me a PM and I’ll help you out.

May God continue to Bless and Guide you!

Pat

Thanks Pat.

I guess what I meant about not being hardcore, was not neglect my relationship with Jesus and God, like going to mass and adoring them, but take baby steps with the ideas of being a Catholic. There things that some belief about other cultures and faiths that distress me, like the topic about Mohmmed being taught in a Catholic School, has now just become a Muslim hate thread. Makes me wonder, if any of them has had a proper, and polite conversation with a Muslim person about things like Jesus. They seem so hateful to everything.

And thanks again Pat

 

[jmcrae]

No, I’m referring to someone here who puts his/her family first…they are selfless and kind hearted. They give to the poor. They are a model citizen.

However, they consider themselves to be spiritual.

Even so, they are still making decisions on God’s behalf about what God ought to want, or ought not to want.

This is where the trouble lies - they are deciding for God, instead of letting God decide, and then obeying Him.

It’s good that they care for their families and give to the poor. But when they say, “God wouldn’t want me to participate in organized religion,” what does that mean? Since obviously God created the Church because He wanted us to attend and participate, right? But since they don’t like organized religion for some reason, they put words into God’s mouth, and tell Him what He should think.

Not a good idea, I don’t think.

 

[Ashurie]

Even so, they are still making decisions on God’s behalf about what God ought to want, or ought not to want.

This is where the trouble lies - they are deciding for God, instead of letting God decide, and then obeying Him.

It’s good that they care for their families and give to the poor. But when they say, “God wouldn’t want me to participate in organized religion,” what does that mean? Since obviously God created the Church because He wanted us to attend and participate, right? But since they don’t like organized religion for some reason, they put words into God’s mouth, and tell Him what He should think.

Not a good idea, I don’t think.

Some spiritualists are content to just to let God know that they do love him, and believe in him, for he is our creator, and there is no denying it - he is our Father.

Also spiritualists are very in-tune with themselves and are very intuitive - I know I am. Some would say “God wouldn’t want me to go to Church”, because that is the intuitive feeling they get about the situation. Most likely from the formality of it all, from the heart they love and adore God, but do not wish to be tied down by religion. They wish to show God love and adoration in their own little way.

Which me joining the Church would be my spiritual way of showing God, and Jesus that I love them, and participating in the Church will show them my commitment to them.

I hope this helps in some way or makes some sort of sense.

Feel free to PM me, or msg on here about it.

I am really enjoying this conversation we have here in this thread. Best one yet, since I have encountered rather some unsavoury people on here about this topic.

 

[jmcrae]

Some spiritualists are content to just to let God know that they do love him, and believe in him, for he is our creator, and there is no denying it - he is our Father.

Also spiritualists are very in-tune with themselves and are very intuitive - I know I am. Some would say “God wouldn’t want me to go to Church”, because that is the intuitive feeling they get about the situation. Most likely from the formality of it all, from the heart they love and adore God, but do not wish to be tied down by religion. They wish to show God love and adoration in their own little way.

And why isn’t God’s way good enough? Even if my own way is “little” it’s still my way, and not God’s way, right?

Which me joining the Church would be my spiritual way of showing God, and Jesus that I love them, and participating in the Church will show them my commitment to them.

Yes - this is what someone who is truly spiritual would do - because they know that God wants them to do this.

 

[Ashurie]

And why isn’t God’s way good enough? Even if my own way is “little” it’s still my way, and not God’s way, right?

I would say that would vary from person to person, but one example could be that someone had a bad experience with the Church in the past, but still wishes to adore God himself.

Just never know, I would think there would be loads of different types of reasons

Yes - this is what someone who is truly spiritual would do - because they know that God wants them to do this.