Can people choose to be spriritual and live a loving life?

[guanophore]

Guan, the above was your response to “It just comes down to believing in the reliabilty of certain people or writings… It’s what one chooses to believe and place their faith in.”

This is the foundation not only of relativism but of faith. You as a Catholic for instance choose to place your faith in the reliability of the faith and beliefs and writings of ECFs for instance and in the Church’s interpretation of them.

For Catholics, CM, it is not “people or writings” but on God’s revelation of Himself to mankind. Although what God has revealed about HImself can be found in the ECF’s, I am not dependent upon their faith, or their writings and neither is God.

Acts 17:30-31
30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead."

God is calling all men everywhere to repent. He can do this because He has revealed HIs will to all men everywhere.

Our assurance in His revelation of Himself to men is found in the Father’s raising of Christ from the dead.

I have to lean on the side of the point that has been made here. Either Jesus is a liar, Lord, or lunatic. He either is who He claims to be, or he is a deceitful charlatan, or a crazy man.

Rom 1:4-7
designated Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6 including yourselves who are called to belong to Jesus Christ;

What do you imagine the “obedience of faith” is, CM? Do you think the Apostle means we can obey whatever it is we decide to place our faith in?

Catholics believe that there is objective Truth, and that human beings are obligated to conform with it.

 

[CMatt25]

Rom 1:4-7 designated Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6 including yourselves who are called to belong to Jesus Christ;

What do you imagine the “obedience of faith” is, CM? Do you think the Apostle means we can obey whatever it is we decide to place our faith in?

Catholics believe that there is objective Truth, and that human beings are obligated to conform with it.

Well for those who might take it literally, to keep (obey) the faith as the Apostle wrote there. Perhaps to believe a resurrected Jesus is Lord. And indeed Guan as you say Catholics are among those who believe. Peace.

 

[guanophore]

Well for those who might take it literally, to keep (obey) the faith as the Apostle wrote there. Perhaps to believe a resurrected Jesus is Lord. And indeed Guan as you say Catholics are among those who believe. Peace.

Yes, I agree with you.

If Jesus IS Lord, then He has the perogative to command, and He has the authority to make commandments for His flock.

If we call HIm “Lord” and do not the things that He commands, then there are grave consequences.

 

[CMatt25]

Yes, I agree with you.

If Jesus IS Lord, then He has the perogative to command, and He has the authority to make commandments for His flock.

If we call HIm “Lord” and do not the things that He commands, then there are grave consequences.

Of course good people of differing faiths do differ on the interpretations of what He actually commands Guan. As that is just a simple reality of faith.

But Matt 18:19-20, “Again, (amen,) I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them”.

So anytime you and I agree on anything, and this might be a first Guan I’d say it definitely warrants a :hug3:

Peace to you Guan on this day and always. God bless!

 

[guanophore]

Of course good people of differing faiths do differ on the interpretations of what He actually commands Guan.

Yes. This is why it is so dangerous for people to depart from the revelation of God. When we rely on our own understanding, instead of what He has given us, we can stray into innumerable directions.

As that is just a simple reality of faith.

Not necessarily, CMatt. Faith is a human capability that can be used by God for divine purposes. We have a choice, where we place our faith. We can place our faith in what God has revealed about HImself, or we can place it in our own ideas, our own interpretations and understanding, our own preferences of what is comfortable and what makes sense to us. This has been done since the beginning of time.

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

You’re ignoring the fact that the claims made in the Gospel are far more extraordinary than someone’s name, or the election results, or the weather forecast. It’s entirely reasonable to demand a much higher level of proof for the claim that God walked the earth as a man 2,000 years ago, that He worked miracles, and that He rose from the dead.

1)Why is it “entirely reasonable”? Because you say so?

Who are you to set the criteria?

It’s obvious from your comments that you’re biased so it’s “reasonable” to insist that your ability to be objective is compromised no matter what the proof, so therefore you’re under no position to insist on any overwhelming proof because of such bias.

1. There are dozens of other extraordinary claims made in secular history that I’m sure that you are more than willing to accept that weren’t written until several centuries after the actual events. Whereas the Biblical records were written much closer in time to the actual events than those other events.

And we have more extant sources(Gospel fragments as well as numerous writings and homilies from the ECF’s where they quoted from the Bible extensively) that confirm that the later copies are in fact faithful renderings of the originals.

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

I ask again: how do you “definitely know”?

I ask you: how do you definitely NOT know?

 

[mangy_dog]

I know people that believe there’s a God and live their life with kindness and compassion. They may have been raised Catholic or Protestant, but have chosen not to follow those faiths. They have chosen to live a good wholesome life knowing that there is a God, but they are not sure what God is.

They believe that all religions pray to the same God, and it’s a shame that so many wars are based on religion. They choose to not have any religion and choose to be spiritual.

Any thougths? Many good people feel this way.

A freelance/rogue spiritual person; detached from the congregation of the body of Christ; choosing to be just an ear or a foot:

It’s a bad idea, it’s trendy and new agey. Especially with a “Catholic” that chooses to live a [spiritual life] detached from the Sacraments - is especially wrong and spiritually dangerous.

We congregate at the Lords instructions to participate of the Body and Blood of Jesus and partake of the Sacraments which communicate supernatural grace to the soul.

How can we do without the Sacrament of Confession for example: it is the inexhaustible source of renewable grace.

I have a life of prayer and a life of the spirit that is necessarily nurtured by the Sacraments. It would be extremely prideful and selfish of me to think that I could have this life apart from the Church that He established.

Selfish because of what I can recieve as part of the Body of Christ and selfish because of what I can bring to the Body of Christ.