Can Philosophy Break the Trinity?

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  1. If God exists as a trinity, does he do so by choice?
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Of course, God chose to come to earth in the person of Jesus. He also chose to come to us in Spirit to guide us always.

God is not controlled by anything else, God does as he sees fit.
 
Saladin said:
Let me propose a couple of questions here:
  1. If God exists as a trinity, does he do so by choice?
  2. Do we have any other reason to believe that God is a trinity, other than the bible?
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I would recommend reading Theology for Beginners by F.J. Sheed. It has a great chapter on the Trinity.
 
Saladin said:
Let me propose a couple of questions here:
  1. If God exists as a trinity, does he do so by choice?
  2. Do we have any other reason to believe that God is a trinity, other than the bible?
Click to expand...
I can see where you are coming from with these questions, but never let go of the Faith. Let it explain itself, or more accurately let the Holy Spirit guide you.
  1. I should not pretend that I know anything about philosophy, because I don’t, but I do respect those who try to combine philosophy with belief in God, otherwwise it has no meaning I think. From what I have read from Catholics, it seems that God could not exist in any other way. Otherwise wouldn’t that make the Second and Third Persons not equal to the Father? Then again Jesus says in John 8 :54 Jesus answered: If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifieth me, of whom you say that he is your God. 55 And you have not known him, but I know him. And if I shall say that I know him not, I shall be like to you, a liar. But I do know him, and do keep his word… I also believe that somewhere else He says that He draws His life from the Father, which would make sense as we believe that Jesus is begotten of the Father.
  2. It comes down to who you believe Jesus Christ to be. If you believe He is God the Son, the belief in the Trinity for me anyway, follows. If we believe that God has an eternal Son, why would it be hard to believe that the Holy Spirit whom Jesus said about is really a distinct and divine Person.: But when the Paraclete cometh, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give testimony of me. John 15:26.
quotes from www.drbo.org
 
thistle said:
I would recommend reading Theology for Beginners by F.J. Sheed. It has a great chapter on the Trinity.
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I personally own Theology and Sanity ny the same auhor. But isn’t is amazing how many times his book is recommended on these forums for those who want to learn about the Trinity. Isn’t there more authoritative books out there for the average Catholic regarding such an important aspect of our faith?
 
JimG said:
Your argument seems to assume that God exists IN time. But He does not. Nothing is ‘prior to’ God. God is a spiritual being with no extension in time or space. .
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Nice.
 
MH84 said:
I personally own Theology and Sanity ny the same auhor. But isn’t is amazing how many times his book is recommended on these forums for those who want to learn about the Trinity. Isn’t there more authoritative books out there for the average Catholic regarding such an important aspect of our faith?
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St. Augustine’s On the Trinity is highly recommended. Also, this more recent text is excellent:

eerdmans.com/shop/product.asp?p_key=9780802848277

Blessings,

Don
+T+
 
Saladin said:
Let me propose a couple of questions here:
  1. If God exists as a trinity, does he do so by choice?
Click to expand...
Once again, this gets to the mystery of free will.

Can God choose to do something that He wouldn’t do? Yes.
Would He do it? No.
Why? It’s unwise for Him to do it.
So, He can do but doesn’t do the “unwise”? Yes.
Which means that He could do what He can’t do? No.
Why? That’s the mystery. Take it up with Him. 🙂
  1. Do we have any other reason to believe that God is a trinity, other than the bible?
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The Church says so, not only the bible, and in these matters, the full deposit of faith as made meaningful by the Magisterium is the authority to believe.

One reason I believe that God is the Holy Trinity, as understood by the Church, is that no one else BUT the Church has come to that conclusion.

Only the “revealed at” would put forward such a strange and “un-earthly” solution (mystery), because it’s so seemingly silly and not particularly in the best interests of a “worldly” body to look so silly.
 
We are made in the image of God.

We are Body, Soul and Spirit.

So is God

Soul = Father

Body = Jesus

Spirit = Holy Spirit

The concept isn’t so hard to understand.

Jim
 
Saladin said:
Let me propose a couple of questions here:
  1. If God exists as a trinity, does he do so by choice?
Click to expand...
let me answer your rhetorical question with another one. does God choose to exist?

Saladin said:
2) Do we have any other reason to believe that God is a trinity, other than the bible?
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yes, nature. how else would one person (divine person) share love through His being eternally?

similarly, we see it through the simplest things of God’s creation. take for instance the basic element of water. it can exist as an ice cube, mist or liquid. if we suspend time what would happen to the water? would it lose its basic properties or would it continue to exist as these three things eternally?
 
JPrejean said:
Yes. You said:

(1) If God exists as a trinity according to Catholicism, than it is logical to say that it pertains to the divine nature to exist as three personalities composing one god.
(2) In that case, the concept of the trinity would be prior in nature to God himself. This is because:
(a) the Trinitarian version of God maintains that God is necessarily composed of three persons, and
(b) if God is necessarily composed of three persons, then there must be an entity prior to God necessitating the trinity aspect of God.

(2)(a) more or less restates (1), but (2)(b) doesn’t follow from (2)(a).

Regardless of whether God is Trinitarian or not, your argument requires that some entity prior to God must necessitate God’s existence. That is clearly wrong. If God is self-necessitating existence, then His mode of existence, whatever that may be, needs no cause. Hence, the fact that God’s existence is Trinitarian does not necessitate a cause above God any more than the simple assertion that God exists.

Conversely, God’s existence does not necessitate that His existence is tri-personal; rather, this is revealed. Hence, there is an equivocation on the “necessity” of God’s tri-personal existence. We know that God must necessarily exist in some way by the existence of anything, but we only know that His existence is necessarily tri-personal because He has revealed this to us.
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Excellent analysis, good work!
 
I’d like to ask a question here? Why does God have to be three persons? I’m currently writing about John’s approach to the humanity and divinity of Christ for an essay. Why are the Son and Holy Spirit not manifestions of the same God? I don’t mean like Gnostics who denied the humanity of Christ, but was in a sense part of God who became human? Why a distinct person? I’m not argueing with it, just trying to get to grips with it as much as it’s possible for me to do.
 
minkymurph said:
I’d like to ask a question here? Why does God have to be three persons? I’m currently writing about John’s approach to the humanity and divinity of Christ for an essay. Why are the Son and Holy Spirit not manifestions of the same God? I don’t mean like Gnostics who denied the humanity of Christ, but was in a sense part of God who became human? Why a distinct person? I’m not argueing with it, just trying to get to grips with it as much as it’s possible for me to do.
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At its root, I believe this was anwered in post #13.
 
Given the poster chose the name “Saladin,” I suspect he is split between Islam and his purported Catholic faith. I, too, was chest deep in Islam for a time and expressed the same doubts as to the Trinity and other Christian teachings. In the end, “Truth sets itself (or rather, Himself) apart from lies!”

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
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