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bzkoss236
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Just as women cannot be the biological fathers of their biological children, neither can women be spiritual fathers to their spiritual children.
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CaptFun
Guest
They know Jesus gave the Church real power and the keys to the Kingdom … and that what the Church binds and looses on Earth is bound and loosed in heaven.Why do people who aren’t part of the Church care what the Church does? Makes no sense to me.
While the Church holds view opposite of what is desired … it gets criticized. And when a rumor that something bound might be loosed circulates … some get excited.
Your “why” making no sense … does make sense if this is the case.
As has been noted here though, the Church does not change certain things. Established Dogmas like: Jesus is God and Man … will never change or be redefined to be something else (by the real Church).
And it is Dogmas in the gunsights of the most implacable critics of the Church. Many times, it would make no difference if the critics got their way. If there were “women priests” tomorrow … would it make the Eucharist MORE the Eucharist? Lead to a flood of conversions to the “now legitimate faith”?
In my opinion. :nope:
There is often some teaching the sheep would have liberalized or done away with … or a novel non-teaching some would add. And Jesus reminds us that following Him comes with a cross (some things won’t be easy). Yet His yoke is light and His burden is sweet (when we take up our crosses with the proper attitude).
There is something un-ignorable about this Church. Its history of thriving in adversity, its confidence in teaching with authority (not as the Scribes and the Pharisees taught).
Its history dating right back to Jesus and Peter, the evangelists (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) and the apostle Paul must be explained (it seems) by many non-Catholic Christians even … who might consider Catholics “Christian Allies” but feel as though they must have an answer to the interior question “why don’t we belong to that Church?”
Non-Christian “people of faith” get disturbed by Jesus Himself and His particular claims that set Him apart from mere philosophers and teachers. Jesus claims are exclusive …
once one accepts those claims … His Church is inclusive (for everyone).
“I am the way and the truth and the life …” not one of the ways, one of many truths, or paths to life.
There is a spiritual war going on around ALL of us. The Book of Revelation depicts that battle between the huge red dragon and the woman as the battle between Satan and the Church. The little battles are part of the big war.
WHAT the Church does captures peoples’ attention. Both sides of the spiritual battle call attention to her.
Why do people who don’t belong to the Church care what the Church does?
When “the Church” is not the Catholic Church this is easier to do.
And generally, I think most Catholics have something that they find hard to do. Or things they’d change about the Church. Great saints are inspired to change the Church in ways that add to its holiness. Rebels and those who balk at obedience wonder why this or that little evil is “so bad” and can’t be allowed. And if that one … how about THIS one … until the world changes the Church – instead of the other way around.
In my opinion.
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JamesCaruso
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It’s a reasoned rule. It was not declared ex cathedra, that is, asserting papal infallibly, but I think it does fall under the Church’s infallible teaching authority, although I’m not a theologian to say so definitively. Here is what Pope John Paul said:
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.
If you want the reasoning behind it see Ordinatio Sacerdotalis at newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02os.htm
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JamesCaruso
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All the things you mentioned were under the old covenant. The covenant we are now under is the “new and everlasting covenant.” I would not expect that an everlasting covenant can/will be changed.
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jbeck43
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The encyclical, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, by Pope John Paul the Great was referenced by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, as informing the faithful that the priestly ordination of men was instituted by Jesus Christ and Church does not posses the power to change it. It’s settled.
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_Abyssinia
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Women’s Ordination: It’s Infallible by Jimmy Akin
Vatican Ban on Women Priest Is Infallible by Paul Likoudis
Vatican Ban on Women Priest Is Infallible by Paul Likoudis
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Steveabrous
Guest
Here is an example:
reuters.com/article/2013/04/03/pope-women-idUSL5N0CQ3GW20130403?feedType=RSS&feedName=cyclicalConsumerGoodsSector&rpc=43
The underlying tone is “We hope Francis changes it. Because we know he can if he wanted to.”
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Frank_Drebin
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Of course she has. She knows the answer. Sometimes people just ask questions either hopinh somehow they’lll get a different answer, or because it allows them to indirectly state their opinion about that which they know is set in stone.
It just wastes time and clutters the boards.
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edwest2
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Will the new CEO of Apple follow in the footsteps of Steve Jobs or change it?
Will the new President change things during his Administration?
The Catholic Church is not a corporation and the Pope is not a President.
The worship of the false god, Change, is all I’m seeing. And the only thing to do for a worshiper of Change is to demand change everywhere, but especially in the Church. After all, there are a lot of registered Catholic voters.
Peace,
Ed
Will the new President change things during his Administration?
The Catholic Church is not a corporation and the Pope is not a President.
The worship of the false god, Change, is all I’m seeing. And the only thing to do for a worshiper of Change is to demand change everywhere, but especially in the Church. After all, there are a lot of registered Catholic voters.
Peace,
Ed
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Genesis315
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It’s ironic that those who promote an egalitarian, democratic Church are the one’s who end up making the Pope above God–although, I guess if they make the Pope above God, and themselves equal to or above the Pope, then they too are above God.
CCC [675](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/675.htm’)
Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576
CCC [675](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/675.htm’) Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576
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Shannon9791
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One very simple word. Validation. If the big, bad, mean, OLD Catholic Church says it’s OK, then it must be fine.Why do people who aren’t part of the Church care what the Church does? Makes no sense to me.
Of course, even if the Church were to change all those doctrines and just say “Ya know, for 2000 years we’ve done it this way, but now, we’re tired of that, so we’re just going to let loose and just let ya’ll do what ya do” they’d get blasted in the media for changing. It’s like Bart Simpson says: “You’re damned if you do, and you’re damned if you don’t.”
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JamesCaruso
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To be fair, change is a problem we must all grapple with. Fortunately, when it comes to faith and morals, we have eternal truths and values we can apply no matter what new situation or circumstance arises. Our faith is a real comfort these days.
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edwest2
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No, we don’t have to grapple with anything. The problem is this: agitators post here constantly to promote their liberal idea of the Catholic Church. We just have to remind them that God established the Catholic Church not the Change worshipers.
All change is caused by men, and most of it can be easily avoided. You just don’t do the public wrong things that you see others doing. Not because you think you’re better but because Catholics should not imitate bad and immoral behavior.
Peace,
Ed
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JamesCaruso
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Truth never change. Certain things are as true today as they were in 1950 and will be in 2050. But within that context there is change. The second Vatican Council brought us change, not in eternal truths, but in the way we do things. I know very well, because I lived through it. I was in Rome circa 1965-1966 and was amused by churchgoers not knowing whether to sit, kneel or stand at various parts of the Novus Ordo. People who once recited their rosary throughout the Mass, or who tried to follow the Latin Mass with their native language version on the right-hand page, now heard the Mass, now differently worded in many places, in their own language.
This also brought with it the false hope among those with views contrary to Church teaching that the Church was an organization that was responsive to the peoples’ views. And they were right in so far as non-doctrinal matters go. The Church wanted the Mass and the Sacraments to be better understood and more easily embraced by the faithful. But, of course, those with anti-Catholic beliefs took the Church’s act of love as an act of acquiescence and were emboldened by what they thought evidence of their ultimate victory in modernizing, that is, redefining, the Church.
For these past 48 years since Vatican II, much to their disappointment, the Church has not moved one fraction of an inch in their direction. It still holds firmly to its 2,000-year old teachings regarding chastity, male priesthood, Real Presence, abortion, contraception, Church infallibility, salvation through Jesus Christ, and so forth. It has not discarded the Tridentine Mass as if it were somehow no longer considered worthy of practice, it has not dropped the holy rosary as a fad of a bygone era, and although the externals of the Mass are different, it has not called for any less reverence in our worship during the Holy Sacrifice, even if some see evidence of less reverence in practice.
I think that some Catholics who have beliefs at variance with the Vatican have used the preferential option for the poor as a veil to hide behind, as if their contrary positions are somehow validated by their love of the poor and disadvantaged, almost as if they are more Catholic than the Pope, and the other leaders of the Church, old men who are behind the curve of human history, steeped in mindless traditions of the past. But, praise God, now we have a Pope, who takes away that illusion! And it is an illusion, since the Church has always been deeply involved with ministering to the poor and underprivileged around the world, and the Popes of this and the last century before him have all strongly advocated for the poor. Now, it is becoming clearer than crystal that the Church will not change, cannot change, and that is good. Now all Catholics are coming to know unequivocally what one must believe to be a Catholic in good standing.
Now, too, we even have a Pope who just might refuse communion with the Church to public figures who insist on remaining outside it on certain issues. Just the threat of this possibility is a good thing. It must send shivers up the spine of those who still insist on calling themselves Catholics, but refuse to give up anti-Catholic beliefs.
I can’t say whether the future will bring persecution or a reawakening of moral values in the world, but either way, I am confident that Holy Mother Church will be there like a rock to lead us in all truth and to comfort us in all the troubles and sorrows that modern life might bring our way. It is really good to be a Catholic.
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Immacolata
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Indeed. Pope John Paul II’s Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, which said:
…] was not issued specifically as an ex cathedra statement, but it is considered ex cathedra by the ordinary magisterium. In a responsium ad dubium, which was approved by John Paul II and issued October 1995, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith said that the teachings that JPII said in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis had been “set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal magisterium” and was “to be held definitively, as belonging to the deposit of faith.”
Something people who do not know of the Church explicitly do not realize is that Popes do not simply dogmatize a belief (in this case, women for priestly ordination) out of nowhere. It must be studied, thought upon, and if considered in line with the beliefs from the very beginning of the Church, of what was said by Jesus, it will be dogmatized. It took many years for the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception to be fully dogmatized, yet it had been believed by many for centuries beforehand. Women being ordained as priests, however, was not believed by the early Church (save heretic Gnostic sects) and will not be allowed by Pope Francis (nor, I believe, any Pope in the near future).
I asked this to a friend who is anti-Catholic (she previously was a pious Catholic, now she is an atheist) for these reasons, and she said many things, but the basic of her argument was that she wished to make the Church accessible to all, and to stop its “hatred,” given its “power.”Why do people who aren’t part of the Church care what the Church does? Makes no sense to me.
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Steveabrous
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I sincerely hope you are not referring to me. i posted the original question. I have no desire for these things to change. i was looking for reassurance that they couldn’t.
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Michael_Francis
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