Can prayers be "diluted?"

[ricmat]

I should know the answer to this

For example, if you pray a rosary for X, the intentions ALL go to X.

But if you pray a rosary for X,Y & Z, does that mean that each gets only 1/3 of the benefit?

.

 

[LilyM]

I should know the answer to this

For example, if you pray a rosary for X, the intentions ALL go to X.

But if you pray a rosary for X,Y & Z, does that mean that each gets only 1/3 of the benefit?

.

A prayer isn’t a pie where there’s only a limited number of slices you can get out of it

Since most prayer is basically a plea for help from Our Lord, Our Lady and the saints in regard to a particular person or matter, one heartfelt Hail Mary or Our Father can be just as effective as dozens of Rosaries, depending on the sincerity and love with which it is prayed.

 

[BobP123]

I should know the answer to this

For example, if you pray a rosary for X, the intentions ALL go to X.

But if you pray a rosary for X,Y & Z, does that mean that each gets only 1/3 of the benefit?

.

Nope. You might as well pray for the whole world.

 

[ricmat]

Nope. You might as well pray for the whole world.

This looks like a huge loophole for lazy people like me.

I don’t need to remember a prayer list, I don’t need to remember specific people or other intentions. Just pray for “everybody and everything” and everybody gets all the benefit.

Not convinced yet…

 

[BobP123]

Ricmat,

There is a thread just like this one going on. Catch me on that one.

 

[LilyM]

This looks like a huge loophole for lazy people like me.

I don’t need to remember a prayer list, I don’t need to remember specific people or other intentions. Just pray for “everybody and everything” and everybody gets all the benefit.

Not convinced yet…

If you’re actually SAYING the prayers, then it’s not laziness to leave it up to Our Lord and the Blessed Mother, as I occasionally do, to direct them to where they’re most needed.

Is an artist lazy when they create a painting just because they don’t know who will end up buying it?

 

[water]

also, we should note that sometime we pray for X, Y, and Z, …but the prayer got answered for X, Y, Z anddd Mr. T.

 

[Spirithound]

Is an artist lazy when they create a painting just because they don’t know who will end up buying it?

No, an artist becomes lazy when he photocopies his pics so more people get a copy

 

[LilyM]

No, an artist becomes lazy when he photocopies his pics so more people get a copy

Yes but that would not be what you’re doing in this case. Each individual ‘Hail Mary’ or ‘Our Father’ is a complete picture (unless you literally just say those two words instead of the whole prayer or something )

And anyone who has seen the Mona Lisa can tell you the value of a picture isn’t determined by its size (it’s quite small), nor is the value of an artist’s work determined by its quantity.

What you’re doing is like selling the picture to a gallery where many people can benefit from seeing it, and you don’t know who those people will be.

 

[chevalier]

This looks like a huge loophole for lazy people like me.

I don’t need to remember a prayer list, I don’t need to remember specific people or other intentions. Just pray for “everybody and everything” and everybody gets all the benefit.

Not convinced yet…

There are no loopholes. God’s all-knowing and perfect, there’s no loopholing with Him.

Of course, if you were to think you’ve found the key to the system and you can get away with one short prayer and achieve everything those poor suckers spend many a rosary on, well, that kind of attitude wouldn’t make it great on your part, but it would be about attitude. I’m quite sure God doesn’t do any maths. He’s not a lawyer.

 

[ricmat]

There are no loopholes. God’s all-knowing and perfect, there’s no loopholing with Him.

Of course, if you were to think you’ve found the key to the system and you can get away with one short prayer and achieve everything those poor suckers spend many a rosary on, well, that kind of attitude wouldn’t make it great on your part, but it would be about attitude. I’m quite sure God doesn’t do any maths. He’s not a lawyer.

I wasn’t seriously suggesting this as a loophole, but only noting that it exists - given the poster’s suggestion. I’m not looking for loopholes, I’m ACTUALLY TRYING TO AVOID USING SHORTCUTS!!!

I think the basic point of my original post was missed by some who responded. Let me restate it.

As an example, let’s say that you pray a rosary for Uncle Vern. Then Uncle Vern gets e.g. all 50 Hail Mary’s allocated to him.

If, instead, you pray a rosary for Uncle Vern, and Grandma Barker, then do they each get 50 Hail Mary’s, or do they each get only 25?

 

[LilyM]

I wasn’t seriously suggesting this as a loophole, but only noting that it exists - given the poster’s suggestion. I’m not looking for loopholes, I’m ACTUALLY TRYING TO AVOID USING SHORTCUTS!!!

I think the basic point of my original post was missed by some who responded. Let me restate it.

As an example, let’s say that you pray a rosary for Uncle Vern. Then Uncle Vern gets e.g. all 50 Hail Mary’s allocated to him.

If, instead, you pray a rosary for Uncle Vern, and Grandma Barker, then do they each get 50 Hail Mary’s, or do they each get only 25?

Oh I understood the question. And it’s the wrong sort of question to ask about prayer. Prayers do NOT have a rigid, fixed, defined amount of spiritual value nor a rigid, fixed, defined way in which their benefits are applied to those you pray for.

It’s not some sort of mechanistic vending machine style exercise where you can be assured that you plug in exactly so many dollars and get exactly so many candy bars in return and no more nor less.

Prayer at its heart is a conversation with God - do you sit there with an eggtimer when people talk to you and respond to them based on the length of time they’ve spent talking to you?? You can say as a general rule that if the more time and effort invested in your prayer the better the results - but they don’t improve in some sort of mathematically predicable way.

 

[chevalier]

I wasn’t seriously suggesting this as a loophole, but only noting that it exists - given the poster’s suggestion. I’m not looking for loopholes, I’m ACTUALLY TRYING TO AVOID USING SHORTCUTS!!!

I know. But I’m telling you that maths doesn’t really apply like that.

 

[ricmat]

Yes but that would not be what you’re doing in this case. Each individual ‘Hail Mary’ or ‘Our Father’ is a complete picture (unless you literally just say those two words instead of the whole prayer or something )

And anyone who has seen the Mona Lisa can tell you the value of a picture isn’t determined by its size (it’s quite small), nor is the value of an artist’s work determined by its quantity.

What you’re doing is like selling the picture to a gallery where many people can benefit from seeing it, and you don’t know who those people will be.

Thank you LilyM for your thoughts.

1. 
   *]No, I’m not saying just the two words.
   *]Yes I’m actually saying the prayers ( you mentioned this in a different post).
   *]Yes, each and every one of my prayers is done with sincerity and from my heart, and it takes me longer to say a single Hail Mary or Our Father than anyone else I know. I reflect on each word as I say it.
   *]I don’t expect God to be a vending machine (as you also referred to) or my butler or my office assistant to keep track my prayer list as I mentioned in another thread).
   
   As I said before, I’m not looking for loopholes or shortcuts. I actually want to be sure that I don’t fall into that trap. I’m trying to avoid them.
   
   You (and some others) seem to be saying that praying HARD for an individual person or purpose is useless. Less is just as good as more. Small is just as good as big. Praying for everybody and everything at once, with a single “heartfelt” prayer is just as good as praying many “heartfelt” prayers. Spending less time praying well is just as good as spending a lot of time praying well. I disagree.
   
   Water: Your thought about praying for X,Y,Z, and T also getting benefit was very insightful. Thank you.
   
   Late Edit: Chevalier - yes, I understand that there is no direct mathematical relationship here. I used the 50/1 and 50/2 only as examples to make my question more clear.

 

[blessedtoo]

If, instead, you pray a rosary for Uncle Vern, and Grandma Barker, then do they each get 50 Hail Mary’s, or do they each get only 25?

I TOTALLY understand this question! I have often wondered about this myself. When I say an entire rosary for someone, I feel as though the intention is more focused and that my prayer is completely devoted to this one person. If I add another person to the same rosary, I feel like one or the other might get “gypped”. Is that what you mean? Like you, I know this is ridiculous thinking, but I can’t seem to get around it!

 

[LilyM]

Thank you LilyM for your thoughts.

1. 
   *]No, I’m not saying just the two words.
   *]Yes I’m actually saying the prayers ( you mentioned this in a different post).
   *]Yes, each and every one of my prayers is done with sincerity and from my heart, and it takes me longer to say a single Hail Mary or Our Father than anyone else I know. I reflect on each word as I say it.
   *]I don’t expect God to be a vending machine (as you also referred to) or my butler or my office assistant to keep track my prayer list as I mentioned in another thread).
   
   As I said before, I’m not looking for loopholes or shortcuts. I actually want to be sure that I don’t fall into that trap. I’m trying to avoid them.
   
   You (and some others) seem to be saying that praying HARD for an individual person or purpose is useless. Less is just as good as more. Small is just as good as big. Praying for everybody and everything at once, with a single “heartfelt” prayer is just as good as praying many “heartfelt” prayers. Spending less time praying well is just as good as spending a lot of time praying well. I disagree.
   
   Water: Your thought about praying for X,Y,Z, and T also getting benefit was very insightful. Thank you.
   
   Late Edit: Chevalier - yes, I understand that there is no direct mathematical relationship here. I used the 50/1 and 50/2 only as examples to make my question more clear.

1. 
   No I’m not saying praying hard is useless - just making sure that you don’t confuse praying long or praying many prayers with praying hard - which is entirely dependent on sincerity, focus and love rather than length.
   
   Jesus warns us precisely in the Gospels against thinking that lengthy prayers are more likely to be heard, than short ones. And when he taught the disciples to pray he gave them a short prayer, the Our Father, without specifying that saying it many many times a day was automatically better than saying it once but meaning it!
   
   Remember the gospel passage of the poor woman who goes and gives two bits at the temple and Jesus says her gift was worth more than the much larger donations others were giving? Prayer is the same, it’s impossible to say that what objectively is a shorter, or ‘smaller’ prayer is less valuable than a larger one.
   
   We can see this in action when we compare the publican who repeatedly prayed God begging for mercy and was forgiven, and the Good Thief who with a few but sincere words - ‘Lord, remember me when you enter your kingdom’ - obtained precisely the same result, and whose prayer was thus equally effective.
   
   Now if you can say five Rosaries in a day and say the last word of the last Hail Holy Queen as devoutly, lovingly and with as much focus as the first word of the first Apostle’s Creed then you truly have my admiration, and can be my guest. More than that, I’d beg your prayers for me in my frailty.
   
   I can’t, and it’s not that I’ve never tried the lengthy prayer session, so I don’t think it’s because of any lack of desire on my part

 

[InLight247]

You (and some others) seem to be saying that praying HARD for an individual person or purpose is useless. Less is just as good as more. Small is just as good as big. Praying for everybody and everything at once, with a single “heartfelt” prayer is just as good as praying many “heartfelt” prayers. Spending less time praying well is just as good as spending a lot of time praying well. I disagree.

I agree with you for your disagreement. And your original question is also my question.

Pray earnestly 10 times for a person definitely is different from pray earnestly 1 time for that person. The difference is 10 v.s. 1.

It is also different if I pile up all my intentions for everybody I mean to pray for v.s. say individual prayers for each one. The difference is individual attention v.s. mess production.

That is why we are instructed from the Bible to “pray without ceasing”. Though prayers can not be quantified or diluted, it makes difference if we devote the whole rosary to one person or one pupose, v.s. devote the rosary to everybody and the entire world.

I’ll just continue to pray the way I have been praying. For specific purpose and specific person I’ll say specific Rosary or specific Chaplet of Divine Mercy. Our God is a specific God, our God likes to hear our specific prayers. It is not that God does not know all of our intentions. It is the quality and sincerity counts.
I am not saying one is not sincere when piles up and gams together intentions. But we cannot deny when we give individual and specific attention, it is more sincere and more earnest. And when we really want something, we will want to do our best. To pile up intentions in one Rosary is good, but to pray specifically and give special devotion is better. Between good and better, the latter is the best. And I would want to do my best.

If I have to purchase 10 Christmas presents, I think it gives different significance when I specifically pick out a present for each specific person v.s. I go to one store and buy 10 same items all together and be done with it.

Of course, prayer has many different types, intercession is only one from. We also pray with praise and thanksgiving. What we are discussing here is the prayer of intercession.

 

[ricmat]

I TOTALLY understand this question! I have often wondered about this myself. When I say an entire rosary for someone, I feel as though the intention is more focused and that my prayer is completely devoted to this one person. If I add another person to the same rosary, I feel like one or the other might get “gypped”. Is that what you mean? Like you, I know this is ridiculous thinking, but I can’t seem to get around it!

Yes, that’s the essense of my question too.

And it just occurred to me at daily mass today - the Masses are typical said for e.g. the repose of the soul of X. According to some of the logic in previous posts, this would be a ridiculous thing to do, and it would be much better to just say “for the repose of all souls.” Why single out X when everyone can get the same benefit?

Some of the responses are totally off track, and making unfounded and jump-to-conclusion accusation of insincere prayers, praying long just to pray long, etc.

Why don’t we all (in future posts) assume that we all know those basics

Now if the answer is that “God doesn’t care if you specifically “direct” your prayers to a particular person, He redistributes them for maximum effect.” - I can go with that.

If the answer is that God knows what’s in your heart, and adds Grandma Barker to the distribution list even if you only pray for Uncle Vern - I can go with that too.

I guess I’ll just keep praying for those people who come to mind - sometimes dedicating e.g. a whole rosary to one person who I think needs it most, and other times “splitting it up” amongst a number of people. And yes, sometimes even saying it for all of humanity.