Can Protestants Remarry Validly?

[PietroPaolo]

Here is the situation. Two Presbyterians marry each other in a Presbyterian church. No consanguinity. No previous marriages. The woman is infertile. The husband cheats. They divorce. Neither dies. The husband remarries. The wife is now remarrying (and we will be invited to attend). Is the wife’s second marriage valid? I would think not as they have no decree of nullity from the Church and they are still married to each other (thus not being free to marry someone else.) Can a Catholic attend in good conscience? This is a different scenario than the one Jim Blackburn was discussing in his recent blog as neither spouse is or was ever Catholic. How would you approach this? I tend to favor passing respectfully, the wife leans toward attending. Thanks in advance!

 

[mommamaree]

I am glad you asked this!

I have wondered the same thing myself. After all, Protestant Christians will not be seeking annulments from the Catholic Church so that they may remarry, when their own church is telling them that adultery is a valid reason for divorce, and that divorce and remarriage is allowable for Christians now. They do not know anything about marriage validity or nullity. In fact, most Protestant churches deny the notion of Sacraments altogether, and do not teach that Christian marriage is a Sacrament. So, if they do not know anything about validity/nullity, and they are taught that divorce and remarriage is acceptable, and they would not seek permission from the Catholic Church to contract a marriage within their Protestant denomination’s church, how are we as Catholics supposed to behave in these situations. We know that they are our fellow Christians, our separated brethren. We have familial bonds and deep friendships with these people. If they are not seeking entry into the Catholic Church, then I see no way for them to be at all responsible for the truth about marriage that only the Catholic Church teaches.

If I was in that situation, I would go to the wedding, pray for the couple, celebrate their love with their family and friends, and leave the rest in God’s hands. Only the Holy Spirit can convict a heart. Of course, if the Protestant couple seeks to learn and understand what the Catholic Church teaches, so they may more closely follow Jesus’ teachings, despite what their church has led them to believe is acceptable, then I would gently inform them. Otherwise, I would remain silent.

But if there is actually any pastoral advice on how to deal with this, or any magisterial teaching about how Catholics should behave in such situations, I would of course immediately defer to that.

 

[1ke]

Is the wife’s second marriage valid?]

We cannot know.

However, the first marriage enjoys the benefit of the doubt, and must be presumed valid. So this second marriage is an invalid attempt at marriage.

I would think not as they have no decree of nullity from the Church and they are still married to each other (thus not being free to marry someone else.)

Correct.

Can a Catholic attend in good conscience?

You will get different answers to this question.

In general, we should not support invalid attempts at marriage with our presence or participation. There is no Church law prohibiting your witnessing this marriage. But one can reasonably deduce from Church teaching that it is imprudent to do so.

This is a different scenario than the one Jim Blackburn was discussing in his recent blog as neither spouse is or was ever Catholic. How would you approach this? I tend to favor passing respectfully, the wife leans toward attending. Thanks in advance!

It does not matter tha neither spouse is Catholic. God’s law regarding marriage applies to all.

 

[Memaw]

Here is the situation. Two Presbyterians marry each other in a Presbyterian church. No consanguinity. No previous marriages. The woman is infertile. The husband cheats. They divorce. Neither dies. The husband remarries. The wife is now remarrying (and we will be invited to attend). Is the wife’s second marriage valid? I would think not as they have no decree of nullity from the Church and they are still married to each other (thus not being free to marry someone else.) Can a Catholic attend in good conscience? This is a different scenario than the one Jim Blackburn was discussing in his recent blog as neither spouse is or was ever Catholic. How would you approach this? I tend to favor passing respectfully, the wife leans toward attending. Thanks in advance!

Personally, I wouldn’t, unless it can be proven the first marriage was invalid. You didn’t say if either were Catholic and where they were married. That would make a huge difference. Even protestants do not have the “right” to divorce and remarry anytime they wish whatever the reason. Their marriages can be valid, binding too, depending on the circumstances at the time of the marriage, not what happens later, infertility or unfaithfulness etc.
Attending such a “marriage” is the same as consenting to adultery. I wouldn’t ever consent to someone robbing a bank or anything else seriously wrong. It can be tough and I’ve had to refuse to attend before but all my family and friends know where I stand way before they ever invite me to such things. I am sure their not surprised when I decline. God Bless, Memaw

 

[BettyBoop416]

How would you approach this?

Opinions about this tend to be all over the place. What follows is my opinion.

None of the people involved in this situation are Catholic. They have no access to a Catholic marriage tribunal to determine the validity of their previous marriages. Their church teaches that adultery is a valid reason to divorce and that remarriage is acceptable in that situation. It is unlikely that they are aware of what the Catholic Church teaches about marriage, and even if they were, they probably couldn’t care less…because they aren’t Catholic. It makes absolutely no sense to attempt to apply Catholic rules about marriage to a non-Catholic marriage.

Personally, I would attend. If you choose not to, I would do what you are proposing and respectfully decline their invitation. I would not share with them the fact that you are not attending because their marriage would not pass muster according to the rules of your church, which they are in no way affiliated with, but which is better than their church, so you’re applying your church’s rules anyway.

 

[BettyBoop416]

You didn’t say if either were Catholic and where they were married.

Two Presbyterians marry each other in a Presbyterian church.

Just in case you misplaced your reading glasses. I lose mine all the time.

 

[Memaw]

Just in case you misplaced your reading glasses. I lose mine all the time.

Sorry about that, I stand corrected. If both were baptized then their first marriage was sacramental and is for life. God Bless, Memaw

 

[bitznbitez]

" I tend to favor passing respectfully, the wife leans toward attending."

Don’t think my opinion will resolve the real issue you are having…

Since I was in my early teen years, as a Catholic hating protestant of the first order at the time, I have not gone to any relatives or other persons second marriage, including ancestors of mine, and have no intention of starting now. I don’t care what their faith, country of origin, etc. etc. etc. This way “its not personal you understand” or “I’m sorry there’s nothing I can do because its our policy”. I haven’t faced the “but the marriage was validly annulled” question but I’ll confess I’m skeptical of annulments too. In my RCIA class was an older man who was all proud that he had his first marriage annuled, had to appeal it to Rome or somesuch but anyway his annulment was allegedly approved by the pope and as a result he now has himself a very young pretty wife… I still joined the Church despite that…

Though I suppose I would make an exception if the first spouse was dead and the surviving spouse had not killed them.

 

[PietroPaolo]

I would not share with them the fact that you are not attending because their marriage would not pass muster according to the rules of your church, which they are in no way affiliated with, but which is better than their church, so you’re applying your church’s rules anyway.

To be fair, it isn’t “my church says x and my church is better than yours so I’m applying my church’s rules to you” it is rather the objective fact that if they are still married to one another they can’t get married again until one or the other dies (regardless of what their church might say), thus the second wedding doesn’t result in a real marriage, but cohabitation and fornication. If, as the Church teaches, marriage between two baptized Christians is “until death do you part” then they, as two baptized Christians, cannot remarry - it would be impossible (and in that way ONLY it is similar to same sex ‘marriage’). But they don’t have recourse to the annulment process, so if their marriage was invalid from the start, they never would be able to have it officially nullified - so that would seem to impose a higher standard on them than on Catholics. That is where the gray area seems to be for me

 

[PietroPaolo]

Don’t think my opinion will resolve the real issue you are having…

Since I was in my early teen years, as a Catholic hating protestant of the first order at the time, I have not gone to any relatives or other persons second marriage, including ancestors of mine, and have no intention of starting now. I don’t care what their faith, country of origin, etc. etc. etc. This way “its not personal you understand” or “I’m sorry there’s nothing I can do because its our policy”. I haven’t faced the “but the marriage was validly annulled” question but I’ll confess I’m skeptical of annulments too. In my RCIA class was an older man who was all proud that he had his first marriage annuled, had to appeal it to Rome or somesuch but anyway his annulment was allegedly approved by the pope and as a result he now has himself a very young pretty wife… I still joined the Church despite that…

Though I suppose I would make an exception if the first spouse was dead and the surviving spouse had not killed them.

Christ gave the Church the power to bind and loose (cf. Matt 18:18) and the power to speak in His Name (Luke 10:16). If the Church says no marriage took place (i.e. issues an annulment) then no marriage took place and the man is free to marry again regardless of his new wife’s age. It is dangerous (and very Protestant) to put our personal judgements over those of the Church.

 

[cargau]

Here is the situation. Two Presbyterians marry each other in a Presbyterian church. No consanguinity. No previous marriages. The woman is infertile. The husband cheats. They divorce. Neither dies. The husband remarries. The wife is now remarrying (and we will be invited to attend). Is the wife’s second marriage valid? I would think not as they have no decree of nullity from the Church and they are still married to each other (thus not being free to marry someone else.) Can a Catholic attend in good conscience? This is a different scenario than the one Jim Blackburn was discussing in his recent blog as neither spouse is or was ever Catholic. How would you approach this? I tend to favor passing respectfully, the wife leans toward attending. Thanks in advance!

Presbyterians do not believe that marriage is a sacrament the way Catholics do. Therefore, validity is not an issue here other than the way marriage is defined by the state.

 

[mommamaree]

To be fair, it isn’t “my church says x and my church is better than yours so I’m applying my church’s rules to you” it is rather the objective fact that if they are still married to one another they can’t get married again until one or the other dies (regardless of what their church might say), thus the second wedding doesn’t result in a real marriage, but cohabitation and fornication. If, as the Church teaches, marriage between two baptized Christians is “until death do you part” then they, as two baptized Christians, cannot remarry - it would be impossible (and in that way ONLY it is similar to same sex ‘marriage’). But they don’t have recourse to the annulment process, so if their marriage was invalid from the start, they never would be able to have it officially nullified - so that would seem to impose a higher standard on them than on Catholics. That is where the gray area seems to be for me

In addition, they have a “higher authority” telling them the opposite of what the Catholic Church teaches about this. Their pastors and elders are telling them that adultery is a valid reason for divorce and that remarriage is acceptable in that case. In fact, multiple divorces and remarriages are considered acceptable by pastors and elders nowadays. So our words as Catholics will sound condemnatory or legalistic. Protestants will reject the words of the Catholic Church, and especially the words of a lay person, when their very own pastor is telling them they are okay. And their own churches do not offer an annulment process to discern the validity of previous marriages.
All of my relatives (yes, all), my parents, brothers, sisters, cousins, all of them have been divorced and most are already remarried. Also most of my inlaws are divorced and remarried. Now most of the second or subsequent marriages were conducted quietly and privately, by a justice of the peace, or by a minister but not in a church, so I have not had to deal with this situation of celebrating a second marriage as if it was a Christian marriage. But I think that if a friend or sibling were to remarry and have a church wedding, I would likely attend the wedding but decline any requests to be a special attendant like a bride’s maid.
Just my thoughts. But if I found that there exists pastoral guidance to the contrary, I would defer to that.

 

[Memaw]

Presbyterians do not believe that marriage is a sacrament the way Catholics do. Therefore, validity is not an issue here other than the way marriage is defined by the state.

Two baptized protestants that marry in front of their minister is a true marriage that is recognized by the Catholic Church as a Sacrament whether they believe it or not. And a Catholic cannot attend a remarriage by either party. God Bless, Memaw

 

[BettyBoop416]

To be fair, it isn’t “my church says x and my church is better than yours so I’m applying my church’s rules to you” it is rather the objective fact that if they are still married to one another they can’t get married again until one or the other dies (regardless of what their church might say), thus the second wedding doesn’t result in a real marriage, but cohabitation and fornication.

Although it might not “sound” that way, I mean no disrespect. But…

You can call it “objective fact” 'til the cows come home, it’s still just a Catholic interpretation and an expression of Catholic beliefs regarding God’s law about marriage. They are getting married according to the rules of their church. They probably believe the teachings of their church just as fervently as you believe the teachings of yours.

But they don’t have recourse to the annulment process, so if their marriage was invalid from the start, they never would be able to have it officially nullified - so that would seem to impose a higher standard on them than on Catholics. That is where the gray area seems to be for me.

Yes, this is problematic. Or rather, it WOULD be if anyone cared. Most likely, no non-Catholic is going to care.

 

[PietroPaolo]

Two baptized protestants that marry in front of their minister is a true marriage that is recognized by the Catholic Church as a Sacrament whether they believe it or not.** And a Catholic cannot attend a remarriage by either party**. God Bless, Memaw

To be fair, attending a remarriage is a prudential decision and Catholics can disagree in good conscience. There is no official teaching of the Church forbidding Catholics to attend invalid marriages. Of course that doesn’t mean we should attend either…

 

[PietroPaolo]

Although it might not “sound” that way, I mean no disrespect. But…

You can call it “objective fact” 'til the cows come home, it’s still just a Catholic interpretation and an expression of Catholic beliefs regarding God’s law about marriage. They are getting married according to the rules of their church. They probably believe the teachings of their church just as fervently as you believe the teachings of yours.

Yes, this is problematic. Or rather, it WOULD be if anyone cared. Most likely, no non-Catholic is going to care.

Ah relativism… So your tell me – is it objectively true that the statement “a valid marriage between baptized Christians is only dissoluble by death” is just an expression of Catholic belief or is that just an expression of your belief?

 

[BettyBoop416]

Ah relativism… So your tell me – is it objectively true that the statement “a valid marriage between baptized Christians is only dissoluble by death” is just an expression of Catholic belief or is that just an expression of your belief?

Clearly, it is an expression of Catholic belief. (Many) Catholics believe that it is objectively true. As it happens, I do not.

 

[Memaw]

To be fair, attending a remarriage is a prudential decision and Catholics can disagree in good conscience. There is no official teaching of the Church forbidding Catholics to attend invalid marriages. Of course that doesn’t mean we should attend either…

It’s not a matter of being fair, its a matter of right and wrong and not a prudential decision… Adultery is a serious sin and to celebrate a couple entering into it is not prudent at all. Common sense should tell us that much. That’s the trouble with our world today, to many seem to accept whatever anyone wants to do as ok with me!, God Bless, Memaw

 

[PietroPaolo]

Clearly, it is an expression of Catholic belief. (Many) Catholics believe that it is objectively true. As it happens, I do not.

Of course it is an expression of Catholic belief, but is it just an expression of Catholic belief. And, more importantly, is it only your belief that it isn’t true? If so, is that true or just another opinion? etc. etc. etc. etc…

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Ah relativism… So your tell me – is it objectively true that the statement “a valid marriage between baptized Christians is only dissoluble by death” is just an expression of Catholic belief or is that just an expression of your belief?

It is important to note that it is objectively true that these non-Catholics have defective consent. It is their belief that divorce, and subsequent remarriage, is permitted in the case of adultery, and that they believed this at the time they exchanged their vows. If a Catholic wishing to get married stated that they do not believe that marriage is permanent to their pastor, their pastor (ideally) would not allow this person to get married. Oddly enough, the second marriage in question might, in fact, be the valid marriage.

Obviously marriage enjoys the favor of law. We’re talking in absolutes, but it will take a Tribunal to sort through the details. I would be really careful judging who and who is not entering a valid marriage when we are discussing non-Catholics. It would be really embarrassing to make a stink about the situation and not attend, then the couple convert at a later date, and then have the Tribunal decide the second marriage was in fact valid.