Can Protestants Remarry Validly?

[PietroPaolo]

I’m one that treats people in the context of their own belief system. I’m not aware of any major religion, including major protestant sect, or any secular society that treats the indissolubility of marriage the way Catholics do. Therefore, it is a reasonable assumption that the parties involved have given defective consent, notably that marriage is permanent with exceptions (divorce, adultery), at which point that party may divorce and remarry. Because of this, when non-Catholics get married, I have no idea which marriages are or are not valid.

Obviously, the marriage is presumed valid if one wishes to convert to Catholicism or convalidate a subsequent marriage. However, presumption of validity does not equal validity.

Review the Canons that 1ke posted above in which it is clear that a couple must BOTH believe that divorce and remarriage is possible AND will to divorce and remarry at the time they are exchanging the vows. Just believing divorce and remarriage is okay while lacking the will to divorce and remarry seems to be insufficient grounds for nullity. If your interpretation is correct, we’d have to assume all Protestant weddings are invalid and not attend any of them, whether it’s the first or fifth marriage would then be inconsequential.

 

[JackieMom]

Can Protestants remarry validly without obtaining decrees of nullity?

-In their opinion, yes.

-In our opinion, no.

Isn’t that really it?

 

[PietroPaolo]

I never said the church should compromise…if we go that route then Jesus also never taught that we could get an annulment or determine that a marriage was invalid

I think you might misunderstand what the Church is doing when she grants a declaration of nullity. The Church indeed has no power to invalidate a valid marriage, she only can determine that no marriage ever existed in the first place. Here’s an obvious one. Say a man marries a woman in South Carolina. He abandons her and moves to California. He then marries another woman there. Later he seeks to get this second marriage annulled. The Church would grant the decree of nullity because he never was married to the second woman as he wasn’t free to marry her (you can only be married to one person at a time).

a murderer can confess his or her sin…receive absolution and still receive the Eucharist… divorced Catholics…maybe through no fault of their own…are condemned to a life of lonliness for themselves and single parenthood for their children…woe to them if they fall in love and marry again…they are barred from receiving the Eucharist and are branded as adulterers…i’m sorry…how many of these ex or lapsed Catholics would love to return to the church…maybe if we didn’t pride ourselves that divorce will never happen to us…and then find ourselves in their shoes…we might look at it from a different perspective.

The difference between the murderer and the remarried Catholic is contrition and confession. A murderer who confesses his sin and stops murdering people is allowed to receive the Eucharist. A murderer who doesn’t and continues to murder people without repentance cannot. A Catholic who divorces and remarries and confesses his sin and stops living in sin can return to the Eucharist. A Catholic who divorces and remarries and continues to live in sin cannot. The problem is that the remarried Catholic wants to continue to commit adultery with their second spouse and receive communion.

 

[PietroPaolo]

Can Protestants remarry validly without obtaining decrees of nullity?

-In their opinion, yes.

-In our opinion, no.

Isn’t that really it?

The question isn’t “in the opinion of x, can Protestants remarry” we all know the answer to that. The question is “is a remarriage of a Protestant valid.” A valid marriage being a real marriage, an invalid marriage being a false marriage (the couple are not really married at the end of the wedding, despite their opinion to the contrary). The subjective opinion is not important. The objective fact is.

 

[Peebo]

I think you might misunderstand what the Church is doing when she grants a declaration of nullity. The Church indeed has no power to invalidate a valid marriage, she only can determine that no marriage ever existed in the first place. Here’s an obvious one. Say a man marries a woman in South Carolina. He abandons her and moves to California. He then marries another woman there. Later he seeks to get this second marriage annulled. The Church would grant the decree of nullity because he never was married to the second woman as he wasn’t free to marry her (you can only be married to one person at a time).

The difference between the murderer and the remarried Catholic is contrition and confession. A murderer who confesses his sin and stops murdering people is allowed to receive the Eucharist. A murderer who doesn’t and continues to murder people without repentance cannot. A Catholic who divorces and remarries and confesses his sin and stops living in sin can return to the Eucharist. A Catholic who divorces and remarries and continues to live in sin cannot. The problem is that the remarried Catholic wants to continue to commit adultery with their second spouse and receive communion.

So what would be the answer…leave your second spouse and children as it isn’t a valid marriage anyway…let them fend for themselves and return to the Eucharist…God will smile on you?..I understand the church teaching…what I said was that Christ never said that any marriage could be deemed as invaid…that it never took place…the church determined that…in line with church authority…I understand that also…all I am asking is why the “process” for an annulment could not be made easier for those who genuinely want to return to the church…the church deterimes the “process” by which an annulment is granted…that “process” could be streamlined…or whatever term you wish to use…that is what I am refering to…it has nothing to do with compromise

 

[1ke]

So what would be the answer…leave your second spouse and children as it isn’t a valid marriage anyway…let them fend for themselves and return to the Eucharist…God will smile on you?..

That is a red herring. The Church does not require this.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_14091994_rec-holy-comm-by-divorced_en.html

*The faithful who persist in such a situation may receive Holy Communion only after obtaining sacramental absolution, which may be given only “to those who, repenting of having broken the sign of the Covenant and of fidelity to Christ, are sincerely ready to undertake a way of life that is no longer in contradiction to the indissolubility of marriage. This means, in practice, that when for serious reasons, for example, for the children’s upbringing, a man and a woman cannot satisfy the obligation to separate, they ‘take on themselves the duty to live in complete continence, that is, by abstinence from the acts proper to married couples’”(8). In such a case they may receive Holy Communion as long as they respect the obligation to avoid giving scandal
*

I understand the church teaching…what I said was that Christ never said that any marriage could be deemed as invaid…that it never took place…the church determined that…in line with church authority…

Actually, he did, in Matthew. That is what is meant by unlawful marriage.

I understand that also…all I am asking is why the “process” for an annulment could not be made easier for those who genuinely want to return to the church…the church deterimes the “process” by which an annulment is granted…that “process” could be streamlined…or whatever term you wish to use…that is what I am refering to…it has nothing to do with compromise

How would the Church “streamlline” the process? What is your suggestion?

 

[PietroPaolo]

So what would be the answer…leave your second spouse and children as it isn’t a valid marriage anyway…let them fend for themselves and return to the Eucharist…God will smile on you?..I understand the church teaching…what I said was that Christ never said that any marriage could be deemed as invaid…that it never took place…the church determined that…in line with church authority…I understand that also…all I am asking is why the “process” for an annulment could not be made easier for those who genuinely want to return to the church…the church deterimes the “process” by which an annulment is granted…that “process” could be streamlined…or whatever term you wish to use…that is what I am refering to…it has nothing to do with compromise

What do you want the Church to do, say its okay to violate sixth commandment without remorse, confession, or any desire to amend your life and receive the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ in the Eucharist? To ignore the clear words of Christ on this matter? The Church cannot do those things - it’s impossible. Could the Church make the annulment process faster? Maybe, but valid marriages would still not qualify and many Catholics would still be left without an annulment. The answer is not for the Church to change, but for Catholics to stop getting remarried. The answer is never to wink at sin, it’s always for people to stop sinning. After all the most serious consequence of remarrying is not losing the right to communicate (as serious as that is), but seriously risking an eternity in Hell. The Church would be derelict in her primary task (saving souls) if she failed to take the sin of adultery as seriously as she does.

 

[Memaw]

While I don’t disagree with the points given why divorced Catholics can’t remarry unless they can get an annulment…how many Catholics would feel alienated from the church knowing they did no wrong…that their spouse walked out on them…that their church told them they can’t remarry unless they can show that their marriage was invalid…and that added with the stress of their spouse leaving them…they would feel they are being treated unfairly…I know some of my( Catholic) family members who have gone through divorce…and later they have found someone else…none of them attend the Catholic Church anymore…sad to say…they either remarry in a protestant church or a civil ceremony…I’m sure most of us know people who have left the church because of this…there would have to be millions if not tens of millions of Catholics who have left for this reason…I’m not advocating ease of divorce and remarrying like Protestant churches…maybe if the process of annulment was made easier many Catholics would come back to their faith…it can take a long time…go before a panel…and be quite expensive…many probably feel they are the ones being persecuted so they don’t bother…surely the church has authority to make the process that is already in place simpler…I know that some will say thems the rules…take it or leave it…unfortunately that won’t bring them back home to the Catholic Church…I’m sure there must be many of us practicing Catholics who would like to see their family members or friends come back if shown a bit more compassion and understanding for their circumstances

I knew a Catholic fella once that married a divorced Catholic lady ( both were great people ). But he wouldn’t even consider checking into an annulment for her ( even tho she wanted to.) after he found out it would involve her X-hubby and he wanted nothing to do with the X. I tried to talk to him once and he said, “The Catholic Church don’t want me and I don’t want it.” and he was firm about it. I said, " Oh the Catholic Church sure does want you but you chose to do this and now you want to blame the Church." They were married by a Justice of the Peace and lived together for 48 years. A few years ago he developed Cancer and a month before he died he asked to see a priest and wanted to go to Confession and even after all those years, the Church welcomed him back with open arms. Thank God for His wonderful Mercy. His widow is now able to practice her Catholic Faith again. 2 of their kids have gotten married in the Church since and their husbands have converted also, and one is working on it. I am sure he is praying for his family. God is loving and merciful. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

I never said the church should compromise…if we go that route then Jesus also never taught that we could get an annulment or determine that a marriage was invalid…as for mainstream churches dying…how many Catholics now attend mass or follow church teachings…in countries like Brazil the EvangelicaL/Pentecostal churches are converting Catholics to their churches by the pew-load…as for the Episcopal church…most of the problem in that church is over the ordination of women priests and Bishops and an open acceptance of"gay" priests and laity…all I was asking that if the church…which already has the authority to decide if a marriage is valid or invalid…could find a faster more compassionate way to grant an annulment…that is not compromising …watering down or whatever you like to call it…a murderer can confess his or her sin…receive absolution and still receive the Eucharist… divorced Catholics…maybe through no fault of their own…are condemned to a life of lonliness for themselves and single parenthood for their children…woe to them if they fall in love and marry again…they are barred from receiving the Eucharist and are branded as adulterers…i’m sorry…how many of these ex or lapsed Catholics would love to return to the church…maybe if we didn’t pride ourselves that divorce will never happen to us…and then find ourselves in their shoes…we might look at it from a different perspective.

A murder, as you put it, would be committing a serious sin if he kept killing and confessing over and over again but never stopped. Adultery is a serious sin and one must try to never commit it again if they are truly sorry and seek confession. The Church can never change the 10 Commandments. You said the Church should never compromise but yet you expect it to when you want it your way. We all have a free will and no one commits a serious sin “through no fault of their own”. I have been widowed twice and both times it brought me closer to my Faith and family. Both my husbands were converts and I am very thankful to God for his love and Grace for all. It really makes a big difference to do things right. Some of us really need to study up on our Catholic Faith. It’s a lifetime process. God Bless, Memaw

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

No it is not implicit.

I believe that it is unreasonable to assume that the a non-Catholic understands the Catholic teaching on marriage. Many Catholics don’t even understand it.

I think you are overstating your position that this is a “teaching” of their religion.

Marriage is a natural institution, the requirements to marry are minimal. One need have no religion to marry validly. I encourage you to read up on what the Church teaches in the area of consent and intent.

I’m aware of all this, and that only Divine Law requirements apply to non-Catholics. I’m also aware that non-Catholics, with limited exception, are not familiar with this, don’t teach this, don’t believe marriage is a sacrament, and reserve the right to divorce in some cases.

That the individual person had a defect of consent.

I’m aware that ultimately it is what the individual believed. Personally, I’ve never met a non-Catholic Christian that understood the Catholic position on this matter, and I don’t expect to. I won’t state that none exist, but I guess it could happen.

NO. That is NOT what the Church teaches on this matter at all.

I never stated that is what the Church teaches. However, since I know Presbyterians, I can assure you that the Presbyterian Church doesn’t teach this.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Review the Canons that 1ke posted above

This isn’t about me. Why would the Presbyterians be familiar with these Canons?

in which it is clear that a couple must BOTH believe that divorce and remarriage is possible AND will to divorce and remarry at the time they are exchanging the vows.

This is problematic, simply because marriage prep isn’t required in many cases for non-Catholics, nor do marriage vows specifically include reserving the right of divorce. They don’t need to; for the vast majority of non-Catholics (and many Catholics) it’s part of their belief system. In fact, I was married to a non-Catholic Christian that screwed around and thought it was perfectly fine. If these non-Catholics were asked, prior to marriage, if divorce was okay if the spouse committed adultery, I would be shocked if the vast majority didn’t state “yes.”

Just believing divorce and remarriage is okay while lacking the will to divorce and remarry seems to be insufficient grounds for nullity.

It depends how the case is presented. If the person states the grounds of the case is adultery, then there is no case. If the person presents it as defect of form, then grounds for annulment exist. However, how does one prove what one thought, say, 20 year ago?

If your interpretation is correct, we’d have to assume all Protestant weddings are invalid and not attend any of them, whether it’s the first or fifth marriage would then be inconsequential.

I’m not stating my interpretation is correct or not correct. However, I will state assertively that marriage is, by far, the most difficult and confusing sacrament (well, at least between the baptized) to understand.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

If the person presents it as defect of form,

Corrected to say “defect of consent.”