Can raped girls abort?

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Oh, the products of conception aren’t an ‘infant’?

So then the ‘fetus’ isn’t human? When does the fetus BECOME human?

Who knew, we weren’t ALWAYS human, we ‘morphed’ into humanity.
 
I know all about the medical words, Doc. They’re nice little ‘tools’ to make it APPEAR as though the child in the womb isn’t really just as much a ‘child’ in everything from his DNA on IN utero as he is EX utero.

As though by calling who is in the womb a name like ‘embryo’ or ‘fetus’ you can make the claim that you aren’t aborting a ‘baby’ but some protohuman ‘stage’ like a bunch of cells or something.
 
Well, enlighten us, Doc. What exactly ARE you saying?

If abortion isn’t murder, what is it? Exactly, now. What is the aborted child and why?
 
We’re back to the Orwellian conspiracy theories again:thumbsup:
I like to use language precisely. Inferring a sinister agenda for doing so is rather cynical.
Abortion is abortion.
Murder is murder.
Why confuse people?
 
Doc_Keele said:
Murder is not the same as abortion.
Click to expand...
Definitions of murder on the Web:
google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=ctn&rls=com.google:en-US:official&defl=en&q=define:murder&ei=XDmZS5avM5DPlAfWsoy8DQ&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title&ved=0CAkQkAE
*** kill intentionally and with premeditation**; “The mafia boss ordered his enemies murdered”
*mangle: alter so as to make unrecognizable; “The tourists murdered the French language”
* unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being

How does abortion not fit the first definition? When you consider the dismemberment of an unborn baby, the second definition also applies. If you consider God’s law in the commandments, which supercedes all law, the third definition also applies. Three for three is good enough for me.

Violating man’s laws may land you in prison. Violating God’s laws may land you in Hell. There is your freedom of choice. Whose law do you choose to follow? Human laws don’t define sin. God’s laws do. All the semantics in the world cannot and will not change that. If you want to believe there is no Hell and there are no consequences for unrepentant sin, that is also left to your freedom of choice.
 
Linda - believe me I know the definition of murder. Coke formulated the common law definition which has only been altered in my jurisdiction by the abolition of the year and a day rule.
 
So abortion is abortion, therefore it can’t be murder?

Hmm. Then if i strangle someone to death, it’s strangulation, not murder, right?

If I poison someone and they die, it’s not murder. I only poisoned him, I did not murder him.

The idea that giving something a name automatically excludes it from something ELSE by name is rather. . um. . .strange. Didn’t you ever study Venn diagrams in school? Things ‘overlap’.

It’s one thing to be precise. . .but I think you’re moving beyond to pedantic, Doc.
 
Doc_Keele said:
Linda - believe me I know the definition of murder. Coke formulated the common law definition which has only been altered in my jurisdiction by the abolition of the year and a day rule.
Click to expand...
So, answer her question. How does abortion not fit the first definition?
 
That’s a straw man argument. Abortion does not overlap with murder. There’s no need for a Venn diagram.
 
Linda’s post:

Definitions of murder on the Web:
google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=ctn&rls=com.google:en-US:official&defl=en&q=define:murder&ei=XDmZS5avM5DPlAfWsoy8DQ&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title&ved=0CAkQkAE
*** kill intentionally and with premeditation**; “The mafia boss ordered his enemies murdered”
*mangle: alter so as to make unrecognizable; “The tourists murdered the French language”
* unlawful premeditated killing of a human being by a human being

How does abortion not fit the first definition?
 
Doc_Keele said:
No need for evidence, it’s a definitional thing. I don’t need to prove that green is not blue.
Click to expand...
The definition of murder is the killing of a human being, not in war and not in self-defense in the face of imminent harm.

The person aborted is a human being who poses no imminent threat (thus, it’s not self-defense) and who is not an enemy combatant (thus, not in war) - therefore, abortion is murder.
 
Doc_Keele said:
O mlly - it’s a circular argument, your statement is a truism.
…
Click to expand...
A truism, really? Not according to Roe v. Wade dissenter Associate Justice Byron White: “[the Court] values the convenience of the pregnant mother more than the continued existence and development of the life or potential life that she carries.”

Let’s try < 10 cm. A mother who procures an abortion for the sole sake of her own convenience before implantation willfully takes the life of her unborn. True or false?
 
SugarMagnolia said:
If only belief were a choice! But it is not. This is one of those things so obvious it’s difficult to explain…
Click to expand...
Belief is not an emotion, belief is a rational decision based on faith. I believe, believe is a VERB.

To say that belief is something we do not control is to deny free will.
SugarMagnolia said:
I have to wonder how sorry for that sin they can be if they keep doing it so often.

I’m really having a hard time understanding how someone who repeatedly chooses to do something they believe is a sin, can be reconciled simply because the moment they’re finished enjoying themselves they feel regret,
But someone who has a belief (which is beyond their control, as are all beliefs) but chooses not to act on it, cannot be reconciled.
Click to expand...
As a sinner, I have sat in the confessional and confessed the same sin over and over and over again. All I can say is that if you have not repeated a sin, you are very blessed!!
 
o_mlly said:
A truism, really? Not according to Roe v. Wade dissenter Associate Justice Byron White: “[the Court] values the convenience of the pregnant mother more than the continued existence and development of the life or potential life that she carries.”

Let’s try < 10 cm. A mother who procures an abortion for the sole sake of her own convenience before implantation willfully takes the life of her unborn. True or false?
Click to expand...
Right - still a truism.
 
jmcrae said:
The definition of murder is the killing of a human being, not in war and not in self-defense in the face of imminent harm.

The person aborted is a human being who poses no imminent threat (thus, it’s not self-defense) and who is not an enemy combatant (thus, not in war) - therefore, abortion is murder.
Click to expand...
Obviously it’s important to get the definition right.
Coke’s definition, modified by statute:
“when a person, of sound memory and discretion, unlawfully killeth any reasonable creature in being and under the king’s peace, with malice aforethought, either express or implied”
 
[Interjecting]

So, it seems that the crux of the definition is “reasonable creature in being.” "n being" means “while alive,” but what is a “reasonable creature”? Is that the same as a “rational creature,” or does that simply mean that it would be reasonable to call X a creature worthy of protection? If the latter, there are several types of reasoning that not all people have at every time in their lives (practical reasoning, deductive, inductive, syllogistic, modal, etc.). I’ve brought it up before, but as Plato has said, we must look at a man’s whole life to determine his morally relevant characteristics. If the former, then it seems the definition is conclusory. The analytical heavy lifting (as always) would be in determining, more precisely, in what circumstances it would be reasonable to call X a creature worthy of protection.
 
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