Can raped girls abort?

[st_lucy]

Really now? You would have no empathy towards a raped girl who gets an abortion?

Every human being deserves protection, but it seems understandable to not want to be forced to offer such protection as the result of someone else’s crime.

Being a result of rape I don’t see it as understandable to kill the baby for what its father did. And I am sure glad my mom saw it that way, also. As are my children my husband my friends, my siblings and of course my mom who I call three times, at least, a day.

 

[crazzeto]

No, there is no circomstance under which abortion is ever justified. Abortion is an intrisic evil, regardless of intent it is always an evil, always grave matter.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

They are good questions, but the fact is, while the person who hooked me up to the machine bears some responsibility if I push the button and kill an innocent person to stop my psychological pain, I still bear the responsibility and in fact, I have consented (though arguably not in full possession if under a heavy pain burden) to the death.

If I had borne the pain for the 9 months, the person would be alive. While the ‘shock’ mechanism was put in place by another person, the fact is, so long as I refrain from pushing the button, that person is alive, despite the fact that somebody DID hook up a potentially lethal mechanism.

So I don’t think that a woman who (under great psychological stress) feels that she simply cannot ‘take’ having a child in her body (and what of the woman who is not raped but winds up pregnant? What of the woman who ‘thinks’ she is protected with the pill and gets pregnant? Who do we ‘blame’ then when she cannot bear the psychological stress?) could claim that the ‘real killer’ was the rapist who fathered the child. She does have to take some culpability if she kills the child, because she does have an alternative, even though it might be a difficult one.

Suppose that a woman’s much-loved father is the one who would get the ‘lethal shock’ should she not bear the pain. Don’t you think that knowing that a LOVED ONE would die would make the person far more willing to bear the pain, or to even TRY, than for an 'unknown?" If that is the case, then there is more to the scenario than the idea of pain itself, don’t you think?

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I would argue that it is the person who hooked you up to the machine that is culpable for the death caused by your pressing of the button. You are in a position to spare the person, yes. However, you have no moral obligation to suffer on that person’s behalf. Had you by some means consented to this in the past, that’d be another thing all together.

The problem is, how is a consented to child more valid to live than a child who was not consented to?

The thing is, it seems that sometimes people get caught up in “she CHOSE to have sex, so she CHOSE to get pregnant” but this isn’t the point at all. Women facing unintended pregnancy never chose to get pregnant. Brushing them off with “well, you CHOSE this when you had sex” invalidates the fear these women have and leave them feeling alone and scared and MORE LIKELY to abort. The point isn’t whether or not she chose to get prengnant, or chose whether or not to have sex. The whole point of abortion is that there is an innocent child being destroyed. We have to support these women totally. They need to know that both they, AND their unborn child have value. Raped women even more. Why should a woman have to live with the trauma of being sexually assaulted, then the trauma of killing their own child. Yes, the child is the rapist’s, but it is just as much (moreso even) hers! Society can’t just brush these women’s pain off by telling them “just abort the kid, no big deal!” they need to support her and her child.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I don’t want to debate the wrong or right…I’m just adding this to the discussion. I think there are those women out there that if impregnated via a rape would see every moment of the pregnancy as a reminder of the crime. I can’t imagine the toll that would take. To have the control of your own body taken away from you by a rapist not just during the act itself but in away to have the control of your life and body taken away from some 9 months that would be a truly horrendous situation to be placed in.

I know you don’t want to debate wrong or right and I’m glad you brought up what you did because it’s an important issue. What I’m going to post here is not necessarily meant for you alone because you don’t want to debate the wrong or right and I don’t want you to think that I don’t respect your wishes. Of course I can only speak for myself, but I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut.

I agree with you. It would be horrible to some people. Being reminded of a rape for the nine months (give or take a month or so) is terrible and I would question anyone who would think that this reminder wouldn’t cause problems.

But remember, the girl is already a victim. She has been raped - nothing is going to change that fact and no way is she going to be able to forget. Killing a child conceived via rape doesn’t make the rape disappear, nor does carrying the child to term. Killing the child doesn’t stop or erase the rape - it can’t. Carrying the child to term doesn’t stop or erase the rape - it can’t.

But let me ask you this: when my mother was told by her physician to abort me, do you think she should have done so? I know I am not the product of a rape but the reason I’m asking this question is that I was an unplanned (and perhaps unwanted) pregnancy and carrying me may have caused a lot of problems for my parents. Although she did not go through a rape, carrying me may have been an always present reminder of these problems - all eight months that she carried me.

If I were conceived as the result of a rape, do you think that I should be dead? Do you think my mother should have killed me? Do you think that the child who is conceived during a rape deserves to be murdered because of what one of her parents did? Nobody is saying that rape is a good thing - it is a horrible crime and we need to do everything we can to protect girls and women, and to take rapists off the streets and brought to justice.

We also have to help girls (and women) who find themselves in this situation. We need to help them with counseling, medical issues, and financial issues. They need to be recognized as victims, along with their unborn children. I think that counseling is the most imporant part of a comprehensive program of of care that should be offered to all girls and women who find themselves in the situtation of having conceived a child via rape. They have to know it isn’t their fault. They need to be nurtured and treated with gentleness, concern, and love. The counseling (and other help) shouldn’t stop once the child is born. It should continue as long as is necessary.

We are discussing human life here. The life and dignity of the mother must be protected. The life and dignity of her child must be protected. Both are important.

And everything should be done to protect innocent human life. ALL innocent human life.

 

[tjm190]

The problem is, how is a consented to child more valid to live than a child who was not consented to?

The thing is, it seems that sometimes people get caught up in “she CHOSE to have sex, so she CHOSE to get pregnant” but this isn’t the point at all. Women facing unintended pregnancy never chose to get pregnant. Brushing them off with “well, you CHOSE this when you had sex” invalidates the fear these women have and leave them feeling alone and scared and MORE LIKELY to abort. The point isn’t whether or not she chose to get prengnant, or chose whether or not to have sex. The whole point of abortion is that there is an innocent child being destroyed. We have to support these women totally. They need to know that both they, AND their unborn child have value. Raped women even more. Why should a woman have to live with the trauma of being sexually assaulted, then the trauma of killing their own child. Yes, the child is the rapist’s, but it is just as much (moreso even) hers! Society can’t just brush these women’s pain off by telling them “just abort the kid, no big deal!” they need to support her and her child.

I’d say choice IS the thing in question- the argument put forth quite often by the pro-choice side boils down to 'why should I have to suffer/put my life at risk for someone else?"- then we get arguments like the talented violinist (hopefully you know what I’m talking about, otherwise I might appear less than lucid) and parallels to mandatory organ donation. I don’t believe there is a legal or moral obligation to be put at risk for a stranger- unless of course, you knowingly engaged in actions that had a chance of making someone dependent on you.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I’d say choice IS the thing in question- the argument put forth quite often by the pro-choice side boils down to 'why should I have to suffer/put my life at risk for someone else?"- then we get arguments like the talented violinist (hopefully you know what I’m talking about, otherwise I might appear less than lucid) and parallels to mandatory organ donation. I don’t believe there is a legal or moral obligation to be put at risk for a stranger- unless of course, you knowingly engaged in actions that had a chance of making someone dependent on you.

You are right…choice is their argument. But it takes a lot of stretching to make the debate about whether or not a person has the right to live about “choice.” The prochoice side are doing everything they can to take the child out of the argument. They are calling a woman’s OWN CHILD a “stranger” when that clearly isn’t the case. If it were women wouldn’t be suffering the psychological problems they do afterwards.

The simple truth is, every child has the right to live, regardless of what their father did to their mother. THe answer isn’t to tell these women to abort, but to support them in every way they need. They need to ge tthrough this ordeal with as little trauma and regrets as possible. I don’t think such a woman deserves to look into the face of her first BORN child years afterwards and suddenly feel the stab of the destruction of her first. It’s not fair, at ALL to her.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

How is one’s own child a ‘stranger?’ Bone of bone, flesh of flesh. . .hardly a stranger. The rapist may be a stranger to the woman, but the child is not an alien parasite or ‘unrelated’ to the woman. . .

 

[Tantum_ergo]

As has been eloquently stated (and not just by me), the woman who has been raped and is now pregnant virtually never **wants to **kill a living being.

The ways in which this poor woman is convinced to do so involve lies (“It’s just tissue”, “It’s your body, your choice”, "Abortion will take the problem ‘away’).
They involve coercion. (“If YOU go ahead and have this baby you can forget about me, I’m outta here.” “If you have that baby you will ruin your life and everyone else’s and nobody will help you.” “You can’t even take care of yourself”.)

In all the cases, the woman is made a further victim every time. It’s assumed that she simply ‘can’t handle’ the pregnancy, and that she will be ‘punished with a child’ in the immortal words of somebody high in our government, and that not only will she become a slack welfare queen, illiterate, abusive ‘trailer trash’ raising up a brood of violent boys and slutty girls to carry on the legacy, but that if she goes and aborts the child then suddenly she will be worthwhile, will be capable (capable of killing, anyway), a proud woman who doesn’t let some ‘man’ turn her into an incubator; that she will go on to be something like a doctor, somebody important. . .and it’s all because she ‘took control’ of HER life (at the expense of snuffing out someone else’s.)

They never tell the woman that despite the abortion, she’s not going to become the next Oprah Winfrey. She’s not going to magically become worthwhile. (She already was worthwhile as a human being with human dignity. If she aborts a child, she denies her own worth and destroys the worth of another.) She’s not going to magically become wealthy and powerful and perfect. She’s probably going to live at best an ‘average’ life–and it will be a life without a child who will forever be apart from her, not through the actions of ‘somebody else’ but through her own ‘choice.’

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

As has been eloquently stated (and not just by me), the woman who has been raped and is now pregnant virtually never **wants to **kill a living being.

The ways in which this poor woman is convinced to do so involve lies (“It’s just tissue”, “It’s your body, your choice”, "Abortion will take the problem ‘away’).
They involve coercion. (“If YOU go ahead and have this baby you can forget about me, I’m outta here.” “If you have that baby you will ruin your life and everyone else’s and nobody will help you.” “You can’t even take care of yourself”.)

In all the cases, the woman is made a further victim every time. It’s assumed that she simply ‘can’t handle’ the pregnancy, and that she will be ‘punished with a child’ in the immortal words of somebody high in our government, and that not only will she become a slack welfare queen, illiterate, abusive ‘trailer trash’ raising up a brood of violent boys and slutty girls to carry on the legacy, but that if she goes and aborts the child then suddenly she will be worthwhile, will be capable (capable of killing, anyway), a proud woman who doesn’t let some ‘man’ turn her into an incubator; that she will go on to be something like a doctor, somebody important. . .and it’s all because she ‘took control’ of HER life (at the expense of snuffing out someone else’s.)

They never tell the woman that despite the abortion, she’s not going to become the next Oprah Winfrey. She’s not going to magically become worthwhile. (She already was worthwhile as a human being with human dignity. If she aborts a child, she denies her own worth and destroys the worth of another.) She’s not going to magically become wealthy and powerful and perfect. She’s probably going to live at best an ‘average’ life–and it will be a life without a child who will forever be apart from her, not through the actions of ‘somebody else’ but through her own ‘choice.’

Beautifully said.

 

[Brendan]

If a girl or woman’s life or health is put at great risk …why does the unborn baby’s life come first? Allowing the mother to die is ok?

Why should the doctor not be trying to save both? Why is it an either\or?

 

[ALLGIRLS]

Why should the doctor not be trying to save both? Why is it an either\or?

It’s not an either/or, never has been, never will be. That’s the strawman the proabortion side and other antiCatholics put up to defame the Church. I wish that the whole Church would start a (worldwide) campaign to put large billboards up on every corner stating “WE DON’T FAVOR THE CHILD’S LIFE OVER THE MOTHER. WE LOVE AND CHERISH AND TRY TO SAVE BOTH” Then there should be phone numbers and websites and addresses for all the agencies available to help women in any crisis pregnancy situation.

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[redrosetea]

We can never do an evil act and claim good will come from it…every sin matters…WE are supposed to judge actions, our own and other peoples…everything we do must be filtered through scripture

We are not to condemn, that is different…but to say abortion is nothing more than murder and to pretend it is a merciful act is spitting in the face of God, who is the author of life

You can’t say you love God and murder a child, that is still His creation

 

[LindaSK]

We can never do an evil act and claim good will come from it…every sin matters…WE are supposed to judge actions, our own and other peoples…everything we do must be filtered through scripture

We are not to condemn, that is different…but to say abortion is nothing more than murder and to pretend it is a merciful act is spitting in the face of God, who is the author of life

You can’t say you love God and murder a child, that is still His creation

I read this post, and today’s Mass reading came back to me…

1 Jn 4:19–5:4
Beloved, we love God because
he first loved us.
If anyone says, “I love God,”
but hates his brother, he is a liar;
for whoever does not love a brother whom he has seen
cannot love God whom he has not seen.
This is the commandment we have from him:
Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is begotten by God,
and everyone who loves the Father
loves also the one begotten by him.
In this way we know that we love the children of God
when we love God and obey his commandments.
For the love of God is this,
that we keep his commandments.
And his commandments are not burdensome,
for whoever is begotten by God conquers the world.
And the victory that conquers the world is our faith.

 

[redrosetea]

I read this post, and today’s Mass reading came back to me…

1 Jn 4:19–5:4
Beloved, we love God because
he first loved us.
If anyone says, “I love God,”
but hates his brother, he is a liar;
for whoever does not love a brother whom he has seen
cannot love God whom he has not seen.
This is the commandment we have from him:
Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is begotten by God,
and everyone who loves the Father
loves also the one begotten by him.
In this way we know that we love the children of God
when we love God and obey his commandments.
For the love of God is this,
that we keep his commandments.
And his commandments are not burdensome,
for whoever is begotten by God conquers the world.
And the victory that conquers the world is our faith.

You are right…When people say we are not to judge they don’t know what they are saying…We must judge, this is how we know right from wrong ,and how we teach our children to walk in the ways that are pleasing to God

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

You are right…When people say we are not to judge they don’t know what they are saying…We must judge, this is how we know right from wrong ,and how we teach our children to walk in the ways that are pleasing to God

The thing about judging is that we are not to judge others’ relationships with God. We can judge the actions of other believers but not non-christians, since their point there is to try to bring them in to the church.

 

[redrosetea]

The thing about judging is that we are not to judge others’ relationships with God. We can judge the actions of other believers but not non-christians, since their point there is to try to bring them in to the church.

WE don’t condemn people but we judge actions…if a non christian does something sinful I need to be able to tell my child no you may not do thus and so ,because God forbids it…the same I would do if a christian tried to entice me or my child to sin…and I got this straight from a deacon

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

WE don’t condemn people but we judge actions…if a non christian does something sinful I need to be able to tell my child no you may not do thus and so ,because God forbids it…the same I would do if a christian tried to entice me or my child to sin…and I got this straight from a deacon

exactly!

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Really now? You would have no empathy towards a raped girl who gets an abortion?

Every human being deserves protection, but it seems understandable to not want to be forced to offer such protection as the result of someone else’s crime.

The raped victim would be doing far more wrong to herself than good by getting an abortion - moral discussion aside. Women who are pro-women are* pro-life*. Think of all the physical side effects of getting an abortion. Think of all the psychological side effects of getting an abortion. Why put yourself through more pain? You’re not erasing any problem. Ask any women who has had one. And a raped victim? I think they can be spared all that.

There are so many testimonies of young women who carried the baby full term, and even though they ended up giving the baby up for adoption, the moment that small, living, beautiful human being is placed in their arms, there is never one sign of regret. They were part of something remarkable.

 

[FMLJoliecouer]

Thank you. I am glad we agree.

Well I will be very unhappy to see you go and I wonder why you degrade yourself so. God loves you very much. I respectfully ask you to stay a bit longer, if even to just read the threads. Many people do. It makes me sad that you are so unhappy with yourself.

As much as I want to answer your question (and I typed quite a lot and then deleted it), this is irrelevant. The topic of this thread is “Can raped girls abort?” My personal volunteer activities are irrelevant, as are yours, in this particular thread.

Because this would skew the thread off topic, I cannot answer your questions.

You are right…and I say that respectfully this time…Forgive me for being…well…whatever I was being…
I totally see that abortion is murder…I am not disagreeing, but women who have been raped…(and I am one of them…as a child…by a brother 7 years older…who I had to face for the rest of his life, until he died just over a year ago)
Holding up signs saying abortion is murder and punishing women who are considering it to be their only option, may not see things the way all of you who know how precious life is…we are all children of God…and some of us dont know it yet…we should be praying for women who get pregnant by rape and dont yet know God…not condemning them…that is all I am saying…

I did over-react and for that I am sorry…but please under stand…I am just now for the first time in my life (at 43) recognizing that I am a child of God and although I have never had an abortion and would never consider it now…I have in the past…but did not…I ended up having a miscarriage though at just over 3 mons…and it was horrible. TO the medical profession…it seemed as though they didnt even consider it a person…THe doctor said I lost alot of ‘tissue’ in the toilet…meaning the baby…
I didnt even want a D & C, because I didnt believe the child had died, but I was assured otherwise…

I was hoping that these forums would be a place of compassion and healing, but I think with the issues I am facing right now…for my own sake…I need to stay away from certain topics (like rape) and then I will not over-react…and say things I regret…

I hope everyone will forgive me whom I have offended in any way