Can raped girls abort?

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Doc_Keele said:
Which is begging the question.
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What question?

Don’t murder people, don’t intentionally kill mother or child. Work to save both.

Can you name one medical situation - in the modern world - where killing the baby is required so mom can live?
 
Ectopic pregnancy.
Esienmenger’s Syndrome.
That’s two.
The caveat about the “modern world” is irrelevant to the discussion of morality. We must consider the situation of developing countries.
 
Doc_Keele said:
Ectopic pregnancy.
Esienmenger’s Syndrome.
That’s two.
The caveat about the “modern world” is irrelevant to the discussion of morality. We must consider the situation of developing countries.
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Ectopic pregnancy does not require the direct killing of the baby. The tube is removed, and by that point the baby is already dead.

I’m going to assume you mean Eisenmenger’s Syndrome (and spelled it incorrectly). Women with ES are advised against pregnancy. For those with ES ANY surgical procedure - and abortion is a surgical procedure - is very high risk. With modern medical intervention, close monitoring of mother and child, babies can be delivered.

Neither of these requires baby to be killed for mom to live.

In a third world country, a person with an ectopic pregnancy or Eisenmenger’s Syndrome would be be likely to die, if they don’t have a hospital for treatment they do not have a hospital for an abortion either.
 
kage, pointing out a typo and assuming it is a spelling mistake is bad netiquette
would you like someone to do the same to you?

what medical training do you have?
I’m just wondering on what basis you think you know more than me?🤷
 
Doc_Keele said:
kage, pointing out a typo and assuming it is a spelling mistake is bad netiquette
would you like someone to do the same to you?

what medical training do you have?
I’m just wondering on what basis you think you know more than me?🤷
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I honestly wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing. There could be some obscure condition with a similar spelling.

The “what medical training do you have”… well, faith and morals do not require an MD.

Pro abortion people are so predictable. I long for one who at least has some new arguments.
 
LOL - it helps to know the specifics of the situation. Don’t you think?

Who are these “pro-abortion people”? Are you referring to me?

Very droll comment. The same can be said for the pro-life lobby.
 
Doc_Keele said:
You believe that the Church puts the preservation of life as its highest priority?
That is not the case.
The Church would mandate that a pregnant mother with serious medical problems must die rather than have an abortion.
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She doesn’t have to die. She can be treated for her disease. If the baby dies unavoidably, that’s not the same thing as deliberately killing the child.

But deliberately killing the child won’t cure her of her disease - she will still have the disease, but her baby will be dead.

For those for whom pregnancy itself is dangerous, surely an abortion would be even more dangerous, since an abortion involves not only the process of giving birth (albeit to a dead body), but also all of the invasive interventions (chemicals, knife surgery) that kill the child prior to her pushing the little dead body parts out of her womb in a birth-like process.
 
alix said:
They did not choose to become pregnant, they are just innocent victims…Is it okay for a rapped girl to have an abortion?
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I cannot imagine the emotional pain a woman would go through to even complete 9mnths pregnancy and birth from rape. I’m not sure I could… Adoption is obviously an option, but that is only after pregnancy and birth, and what if the mother has a very difficult pregnancy/birth? I dont think counselling would cut it, if the woman wasnt already with a lot of support and a relatively ‘sound’ mind. I think it’d drive me to suicide…
 
jmcrae said:
For those for whom pregnancy itself is dangerous, surely an abortion would be even more dangerous, since an abortion involves not only the process of giving birth (albeit to a dead body), but also all of the invasive interventions (chemicals, knife surgery) that kill the child prior to her pushing the little dead body parts out of her womb in a birth-like process.
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You can’t seriously think a very early abortion is as risky as giving birth to a 9mnth old baby? The size difference is massive! Many women who dont have serious health problems still have unexpected complications when giving birth, and most have minor problems (tears etc)

I’m not saying the abortion in necessarily right in this case, just that an early abortion would put less physical strain on the mother than being heavily pregnant, and giving birth at full term.
 
Lethe said:
I cannot imagine the emotional pain a woman would go through to even complete 9mnths pregnancy and birth from rape. I’m not sure I could… Adoption is obviously an option, but that is only after pregnancy and birth, and what if the mother has a very difficult pregnancy/birth? I dont think counselling would cut it, if the woman wasnt already with a lot of support and a relatively ‘sound’ mind. I think it’d drive me to suicide…
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But you can imagine the emotional pain a woman would go through to kill her baby? :confused:

Why is one easier for you to deal with than the other?
 
Lethe said:
You can’t seriously think a very early abortion is as risky as giving birth to a 9mnth old baby?
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I don’t know about the person you are responding to, but I can and I do!

I am aware of the medical risks to a woman for undergoing an abortion. The long term effects. The risks that her body has to endure now that she’s had a procedure which, sadly so many describe as being less traumatic than having an impacted wisdom tooth removed.😦

I am also aware of the emotional scars of having an abortion.

It’s not so simple.

And we have a generation of people… heck, now onto maybe two, who seem to think that abortion is some panacea for the world’s ills.:eek:
 
Lethe said:
I cannot imagine the emotional pain a woman would go through to even complete 9mnths pregnancy and birth from rape. I’m not sure I could… Adoption is obviously an option, but that is only after pregnancy and birth, and what if the mother has a very difficult pregnancy/birth? I dont think counselling would cut it, if the woman wasnt already with a lot of support and a relatively ‘sound’ mind. I think it’d drive me to suicide…
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  1. The baby didn’t rape her
  2. Having an abortion won’t unrape her
  3. If the pregnancy is a piiece of cake, or traumatic, is the result of the pregnancy!
  4. Should I kill you because my computer is glitching?
:confused::confused::confused::confused:
 
Lethe said:
You can’t seriously think a very early abortion is as risky as giving birth to a 9mnth old baby? The size difference is massive!
Many women who dont have serious health problems still have unexpected complications when giving birth, and most have minor problems (tears etc)
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Yes, but the forceps and knives going in to kill the baby beforehand are going to cause a certain amount of tearing and so on, as well. Remember, in order for the abortion to be legal, the baby has to come out dead - they can’t induce a live birth and then kill the baby afterwards.
I’m not saying the abortion in necessarily right in this case, just that an early abortion would put less physical strain on the mother than being heavily pregnant, and giving birth at full term.
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Actually, I think an abortion would actually be physically more stressful than giving birth, since the woman’s body is designed for giving birth, but not really designed to take in all of these surgical instruments, noxious chemicals, and so on that are used in abortion procedures.
 
jmcrae - your analysis of the medical issues is unsound.

if someone has Eisenmenger’s Syndrome, then the haemodynamic effects of pregnancy will make them worse

an early abortion would be physiologically less stressful than giving birth
 
Doc_Keele said:
jmcrae - your analysis of the medical issues is unsound.

if someone has Eisenmenger’s Syndrome, then the haemodynamic effects of pregnancy will make them worse

an early abortion would be physiologically less stressful than giving birth
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Doc… and it’s a good thing we don’t need any credentials for nicknames on CAF, right? What is this Eisenmenger’s Syndrome you are talking about?

How common is it?

How many women are raped every year? Of those women, how many become pregnant?

How many of the raped women who become pregnant deal with Eisenmenger’s Syndrome?

I’m asking this because I’m supposing this is a RARE occurance. So rare, that it’s really a red herring in this discussion.

But, because I realize that it DOES happen (even though I don’t have a notion what it is), we have to accept that there may be SOME case that has to deal with it :o

For those cases, that’s isolated, and I doubt that any one who posts on this forum in this thread is qualified to talk a lot about this unusual medical condition 😊

How about we keep our casual discussion geared more towards that not incredibly rare stuff that you’re taking us to.

Please 🙂
 
Even if it is so rare that there was only ever one instance in the history of mankind, it would STILL be immoral to directly kill a baby.
 
Apryl said:
Doc… and it’s a good thing we don’t need any credentials for nicknames on CAF, right? What is this Eisenmenger’s Syndrome you are talking about?

How common is it?

How many women are raped every year? Of those women, how many become pregnant?

How many of the raped women who become pregnant deal with Eisenmenger’s Syndrome?

I’m asking this because I’m supposing this is a RARE occurance. So rare, that it’s really a red herring in this discussion.

But, because I realize that it DOES happen (even though I don’t have a notion what it is), we have to accept that there may be SOME case that has to deal with it :o

For those cases, that’s isolated, and I doubt that any one who posts on this forum in this thread is qualified to talk a lot about this unusual medical condition 😊

How about we keep our casual discussion geared more towards that not incredibly rare stuff that you’re taking us to.

Please 🙂
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That’s a good point. Obviously, the teachings of the Church are intended for those of us who are of normal intelligence and in reasonably good health. People in special situations should seek the advice of their pastors.
 
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