How does Mary fit into the argument? She agreed, “be it done to me according to your word.” There was never a question as to her feelings about carrying Jesus. And there are many women, pregnant out of wedlock, who are more than happy to have their baby. So I’m not sure how your post relates to women who get raped. Mary wasn’t raped.
That’s true, she wasn’t, but the whole focus seems to be on getting rid of the unexpected baby, regardless of how he got there.
jmcrae - 2 little incey-wincey correctionsAre you serious?
We are in far more trouble than I had ever thought, when the Medical Ethicist is defending the wholesale slaughter of our “unwanted” next generation of civilized society.
Ah. You are merely implying that you might be one. So, what is your job title, then?
Nope - just abortion in cases of “a baby would be really inconvenient right now.” Big difference, yep.
No, I wasn’t implying that I was. You may have inferred that I was.Ah. You are merely implying that you might be one. So, what is your job title, then?
I have presented my position several times now jmcrae. Try not to make reflex judgments please:thumbsup:Nope - just abortion in cases of “a baby would be really inconvenient right now.” Big difference, yep.
I expect that that was your intention.
JMHOYou expect what was my intention - that people infer I am a doctor of medical ethics? Thank you for your faith in human nature and willingness to believe the best of people - a shining example of Catholic faith in action:thumbsup:
In any internet debate it is near impossible to verify that anyone is what and who they say there are - so I wouldn’t expect anyone to take what or anyone else says as something that doesn’t need checking.What is your actual job title, please? If you are going to promote your ideas on the basis of your doctoral credentials, it would be good for us to know what those credentials actually are.
Yes, the argument should be viewed separately from the arguer, but it certainly diminshes the perceived moral authority of the argument when it is presented without Christian charity.This concerns me. The need for compassion doesn’t change the issue of the lifes involved. The issue should be about Truth, not whether we’re offended by another’s behavior surrounding an issue. It reminds me of when I left the Church because of all the hypocrites. Thankfully, I came back in spite of them. The Truth was always there and my reason for leaving was not valid and I suffered for it.
Personally, I get the impression that some people think that because they are “definitely right” that they can be as unpleasant as they like in presenting their position.
It’s never okay to kill a child. When you understand with your heart that these are not “ideas” who are being killed in the abortion procedure, but actual, living children, you’d get a little emotional and excitable, too.
Ah Found it! It’s in the Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services and there is a great summary of the information here: catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0566.html. I do not believe that the actual document is available online.
The results I’m concerned with is stopping abortion from happening - sometimes a slap up the side of the head is more of an attention-getter than a cuddle and a hug saying “Oh, there there, you had no choice.”
Good. As a next step, you might also refrain from defending or promoting those who do.Well this is the issue - there’s a way of talking to children, and there’s a way of talking to competent adults
I don’t, never have and never will “kill children”.
:hug3: :console:You will treat future requests from MYself…LOL
I will treat any future requests from yourself to stick to the topic with laughter
and I have seen your tactics used many times before on CAF and other fora, and I know exactly what you’re trying to do
And just think: through it all, I use my REAL name.
This is a difficult issue. Let me share one story that illustrates how difficult it can be. I know of a devout Catholic couple who have a downs syndrome daughter who was gang-raped as a young teenager and became pregnant. Her mother had developed MS. They struggled with the decision as to what to do. Neither the daughter nor the mother were equipped to handle the baby. They were advised that babies of down syndrome mothers were rarely adopted. Etc. They prayed and felt led to have an abortion early in the pregnancy and very reluctantly.
The grandparents of the fetus also felt this way. The most common abortion in the world is spontaneous abortion - miscarriages. Surely these souls go to heaven so the soul of their little grandchild would likewise go to heaven. It would be the least evil solution, they felt. Their grandchild would be in the arms of Jesus rather than face all the pain that would meet her in life.
As for the murder aspect, how many millions have been murdered by war - and how many innocent people now, including babies in the womb in places like Iraq and Afghanistan? We justify all that, of course, as we justified Hamburg and Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki (the two Christian centers in Japan, by the way). Most of those victims were innocent, too, women and children who had nothing to do with starting war.
We could go on, but you get my points, I'm sure. I think we need to be careful in our judgments and leave that to God in his loving mercy. And we have to be careful of making abortion some sort of litmus test. What causes all these miscarriages? God in his wisdom to save the baby from malformations?
God bless and guide those facing the difficult decisions involved in life - and keep us from playing God in such tragic situations.I feel certain that all victims of murder go to Heaven, but that still doesn’t make murder okay. For human beings, suffering is redemptive. We should not be afraid of pain.
The fact that people have justified horrible actions in the past hardly makes it “okay” to do it in the present.
The litmus test of a society, whether it can be considered “civilized” or not, is how it treats its weakest members. Is there anyone weaker than an unborn child with a disability?
Let God do as He pleases - He is God. We are not.