Can saliva be used for an emergency Baptism?

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I had an interesting discussion on how to perform a Baptism in a situation of emergency. First the Trinitarian formula must be used; however what do you use if you do not have holy water?

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia:

*As to a mixture of water and some other material, it is held as proper matter, provided the water certainly predominates and the mixture would still be called water. Invalid matter is every liquid that is not usually designated true water. Such are oil, saliva, wine, tears, milk, sweat, beer, soup, the juice of fruits, and any mixture containing water which men would no longer call water. When it is doubtful whether a liquid could really be called water, it is not permissible to use it for baptism except in case of absolute necessity when no certainly valid matter can be obtained.

On the other hand, it is never allowable to baptize with an invalid liquid. There is a response of Pope Gregory IX to the Archbishop of Trondhjem in Norway where beer (or mead) had been employed for baptism…*

However, I heard people saying that you can use saliva or tears. I know that saliva was used by the priest in the formula of exorcism during the Baptism. Can anyone provide a binding document that allows or prohibits the use of tears and/or saliva in place of holy water?
 
Cristiano said:
I had an interesting discussion on how to perform a Baptism in a situation of emergency. First the Trinitarian formula must be used; however what do you use if you do not have holy water?

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia:

As to a mixture of water and some other material, it is held as proper matter, provided the water certainly predominates and the mixture would still be called water. Invalid matter is every liquid that is not usually designated true water. Such are oil, saliva, wine, tears, milk, sweat, beer, soup, the juice of fruits, and any mixture containing water which men would no longer call water. When it is doubtful whether a liquid could really be called water, it is not permissible to use it for baptism except in case of absolute necessity when no certainly valid matter can be obtained.

On the other hand, it is never allowable to baptize with an invalid liquid. There is a response of Pope Gregory IX to the Archbishop of Trondhjem in Norway where beer (or mead) had been employed for baptism…

However, I heard people saying that you can use saliva or tears. I know that saliva was used by the priest in the formula of exorcism during the Baptism. Can anyone provide a binding document that allows or prohibits the use of tears and/or saliva in place of holy water?
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No, nor can tears or amniotic fluid.
 
You provided your own answer out of the CE, because it lists saliva and tears under things that are clearly not considered water, and thus invalid.
 
I would imagine that someone baptized in extremis with saliva, tears, or other fluid, would be rebaptized, at least conditionally, upon recovery ASAP.
 
Andreas_Hofer said:
You provided your own answer out of the CE, because it lists saliva and tears under things that are clearly not considered water, and thus invalid.
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I am sorry but I do not consider the CE a binding document.
 
Cristiano said:
I am sorry but I do not consider the CE a binding document.
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You won’t find a document that lists all the substances that are not allowed. You will find in Canon Law the substance or valid Matter of the Sacrament specified. Everything else is judged against that by the Congregation for the Liturgy and Sacraments or the CDF, when a specific qustion is asked.
 
I am not trying to be too picky. I looked at the canon law and it just says water. I am convinced that saliva is not valid however I am just arguing with myself because a good friend that I respect said saliva is fine. I just did not want to be approximative.
 
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We don’t take an exception and make it the rule.

There might be emergencies where the closest you can do to approximate water is to use saliva. This does not mean it’s a “valid” baptism. It simply means that was as close as you could get in an emergency.

When the emergency is over, clearly following the usual rule is necessary.
 
Cristiano said:
I am not trying to be too picky. I looked at the canon law and it just says water. I am convinced that saliva is not valid however I am just arguing with myself because a good friend that I respect said saliva is fine. I just did not want to be approximative.
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Then why do we call it saliva and not water?
Because it not water, it’s saliva.
 
Saliva is considered invalid matter. Even in proximate danger of death, its use would not result in a valid baptism.

In regard to this thread, see canon 849 concerning aqua vera as required for valid conferral.
 
Cristiano said:
I had an interesting discussion on how to perform a Baptism in a situation of emergency. First the Trinitarian formula must be used; however what do you use if you do not have holy water?

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia:

*As to a mixture of water and some other material, it is held as proper matter, provided the water certainly predominates and the mixture would still be called water. Invalid matter is every liquid that is not usually designated true water. Such are oil, saliva, wine, tears, milk, sweat, beer, soup, the juice of fruits, and any mixture containing water which men would no longer call water. When it is doubtful whether a liquid could really be called water, it is not permissible to use it for baptism except in case of absolute necessity when no certainly valid matter can be obtained.

On the other hand, it is never allowable to baptize with an invalid liquid. There is a response of Pope Gregory IX to the Archbishop of Trondhjem in Norway where beer (or mead) had been employed for baptism…*

However, I heard people saying that you can use saliva or tears. I know that saliva was used by the priest in the formula of exorcism during the Baptism. Can anyone provide a binding document that allows or prohibits the use of tears and/or saliva in place of holy water?
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The Priest used to use his saliva to touch the nose and ears of the child (eyes? I can’t remember) saying “be opened” a reminder of what Christ did to the deaf and blind and to symbolise the Baptised being opened to the truth.

Body fluid is never valid for Baptism, its not even doubtful matter, its just plain invalid. To attempt Baptism knowingly with these (which the average person has no reason to as only Priests should do this except in emergency situations) is sacrilege. Think of a Priest trying to celebrate Mass with donuts and coke…😦
 
I think that the only reason water with another material in it is even allowed is that water, being the universal solvent, almost always has something dissolved in it.

For example, when I was about to baptize my daughter I was going to use tap water. Now i’m sure the tap water had flourine added (because most cities add flourine to the their tap water) not to mention some dissolved minerals from the pipes and it’s natural source (Potassium, Calcium, etc). So it truly wasn’t PURE water in the chemical sense. In fact water will even dissolve a few molecules of a glass you are drinking out of.

However, that is something most people would consider water, which is what the article was trying to say. It’s when we try to use something that we know as meant to be something else that we have problems.

Oh, and about the baptizing my daugher, because I know someone will ask. I felt she was in danger of death (she had a heart condition), but me and my wife got in an argument about me baptizing her so I did not. Thankfully someone else did all of about five minutes before she died twelve hours later(whew).

Just my personal opinion on the subject. Don’t forget if it’s an adult in an emergency, baptism of desire is sufficient. In the case of unbaptized infants, we can hope on God’s infinite love.

Andy
 
AHapka said:
I think that the only reason water with another material in it is even allowed is that water, being the universal solvent, almost always has something dissolved in it.

For example, when I was about to baptize my daughter I was going to use tap water. Now i’m sure the tap water had flourine added (because most cities add flourine to the their tap water) not to mention some dissolved minerals from the pipes and it’s natural source (Potassium, Calcium, etc). So it truly wasn’t PURE water in the chemical sense. In fact water will even dissolve a few molecules of a glass you are drinking out of.

However, that is something most people would consider water, which is what the article was trying to say. It’s when we try to use something that we know as meant to be something else that we have problems.

Oh, and about the baptizing my daugher, because I know someone will ask. I felt she was in danger of death (she had a heart condition), but me and my wife got in an argument about me baptizing her so I did not. Thankfully someone else did all of about five minutes before she died twelve hours later(whew).

Just my personal opinion on the subject. Don’t forget if it’s an adult in an emergency, baptism of desire is sufficient. In the case of unbaptized infants, we can hope on God’s infinite love.

Andy
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I’m sorry to hear about your daughter, I’d offer to pray for her, but being newly Baptised before death, she is most certainly in heaven. How lucky are you to have a relative as a Saint!
 
AHapka said:
I Don’t forget if it’s an adult in an emergency, baptism of desire is sufficient. In the case of unbaptized infants, we can hope on God’s infinite love.

Andy
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Baptism of Desire could be sufficient in a emergency only when Sacramental Baptism with water was not possible before they died.
 
no you can’t. if spit was holy, billions of people would get blessed every day. :eek:
 
AHapka said:
I think that the only reason water with another material in it is even allowed is that water, being the universal solvent, almost always has something dissolved in it.

For example, when I was about to baptize my daughter I was going to use tap water. Now i’m sure the tap water had flourine added (because most cities add flourine to the their tap water) not to mention some dissolved minerals from the pipes and it’s natural source (Potassium, Calcium, etc). So it truly wasn’t PURE water in the chemical sense. In fact water will even dissolve a few molecules of a glass you are drinking out of.

However, that is something most people would consider water, which is what the article was trying to say. It’s when we try to use something that we know as meant to be something else that we have problems.

Oh, and about the baptizing my daugher, because I know someone will ask. I felt she was in danger of death (she had a heart condition), but me and my wife got in an argument about me baptizing her so I did not. Thankfully someone else did all of about five minutes before she died twelve hours later(whew).

Just my personal opinion on the subject. Don’t forget if it’s an adult in an emergency, baptism of desire is sufficient. In the case of unbaptized infants, we can hope on God’s infinite love.

Andy
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FYI holy water IS tap water and it has chlorine in it.
 
j need to baptize a baby in an emergency…what words do i use
 
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