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CB_Catholic
Guest
I would not even dignify that with an argument.
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rfournier103
Guest
Best not to engage such intellectual heavyweights. Their arguments are too airtight, factual, and Biblically sound to possibly be overcome by we simple Catholics and our feeble apologetics.*I would not even dignify that with an argument.
Seriously, some of the things people say astound me. You are 1000% right, Carolyn.
*Sarcasm is one of many services I provide free of charge. Have a blessed day!!!
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DavidFilmer
Guest
Satan is a (fallen) angel. He is a purely spiritual being.
He cannot interact with our physical world in any way by his own ability. He cannot cause disease, and he cannot heal disease (of his own ability). He cannot make us rich, or make us rock stars, or cause us to get into an accident, or anything else (of his own ability).
In this respect, he is just like the Saints of heaven, including our Blessed Mother. Saints (even Mary) cannot interact with our physical world of their own ability. We believe that some Saints (including Mary) have communicated with people in our physical world, but they did not do that of their own ability.
A spiritual being can interact with the physical world only by a miracle of God. Only God can do miracles - Saints and angels cannot do miracles.
He cannot interact with our physical world in any way by his own ability. He cannot cause disease, and he cannot heal disease (of his own ability). He cannot make us rich, or make us rock stars, or cause us to get into an accident, or anything else (of his own ability).
In this respect, he is just like the Saints of heaven, including our Blessed Mother. Saints (even Mary) cannot interact with our physical world of their own ability. We believe that some Saints (including Mary) have communicated with people in our physical world, but they did not do that of their own ability.
A spiritual being can interact with the physical world only by a miracle of God. Only God can do miracles - Saints and angels cannot do miracles.
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Telstar
Guest
I absolutely agree. That reminds me of the Pharisees that accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub.
I have a BS in Sarcasm from MyU.*Sarcasm is one of many services I provide free of charge. Have a blessed day!!!
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Francey
Guest
What is your source for this claim?
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spiderweb
Guest
I would argue that it is at least theoretically possible. For instance suppose someone consciously invokes a demon in order to heal them. Because God respects our free will to choose, he could very well allow a demon to heal someone who invoked their aid.
And I would also argue that a demon can cause sickness. In the same example used above, suppose the person renounces their previous action, then the sickness could be given back to that person. This is of course assuming that he did actually take it away in the first place and not just hide the symptoms.
Keep in mind that the demons will only do perceived “good” things only if it aides in our damnation (leads us away from God). And he can not do anything to us that is not permitted by God or willed by our own use of free will. So demons are not going around the world causing cancer, spreading a plague, or miraculously healing people. They especially will not miraculously heal anybody if the glory of the healing will be attributed to God.
However I would also say that sometimes people can unintentionally call upon demons such as having a séance in ones house. Or being prayed over by someone else who invokes the demon on your behalf. The bible doesn’t say these things don’t work, but it does say not to do it for our own good.
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Marie5890
Guest
Sacred Scripture.
Hopefully as you continued thru the thread, that will have been made more clear to you.
The Matthew scripture I posted is one such scripture.
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MtnDwellar
Guest
No creature, mortal or otherwise, can exist let alone accomplish anything with only his own ability.
I’m not sure what point you are making???
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MtnDwellar
Guest
By virtue of the fall, man ceded dominion of the earth over to Satan.
Satan has no influence over our spiritual faculties, but can indeed effect the material world including our physical bodies.
Satan has no influence over our spiritual faculties, but can indeed effect the material world including our physical bodies.
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mikekle
Guest
I dont know about that…where would Satan get the power to heal someone? in fact, why would he have ANY special powers…from what I understand, none of the other angels (fallen or not) have powers like he is said to…and satan is JUST a fallen angel, he may the leader of the 1/3 of angels he convinced, but that does not make him anything special beyond that.
I would say, if Satan has powers like these, then EVERY single angel also has the power, why would Satan be granted ‘extra’ powers…he is being punished by God, no one being punished is given MORE, if anything, he should have less than he did before the fall.
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
According to Catholic Theology regarding miracles; Only God can work a miracle. That is why Jesus told the Pharisees, that even if they didn’t believe in Him, at least believe in The Works of God that He did.
Catholics consider miracles to be a testament to the working of God. Therefore ONLY GOD can work a miracle.
Neither Angels nor demons are able to work miracles.
People, including demons can produce counterfeit miracles. But they will be deceptions. That is why there is SUCH a rigorous process in determining the miracles attributed to Saints in the Canonization process.
For further reading Newman wrote a very good book on miracles which is completely consistent with Church Theology, even though he wasn’t a theologian when he wrote the book. It would be a good starting point.
Catholics consider miracles to be a testament to the working of God. Therefore ONLY GOD can work a miracle.
Neither Angels nor demons are able to work miracles.
People, including demons can produce counterfeit miracles. But they will be deceptions. That is why there is SUCH a rigorous process in determining the miracles attributed to Saints in the Canonization process.
For further reading Newman wrote a very good book on miracles which is completely consistent with Church Theology, even though he wasn’t a theologian when he wrote the book. It would be a good starting point.
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mikekle
Guest
Can you list some of the counterfeit miracles people and demons can do? I agree with you, Im just curious what some of these could be…imo, probably along the lines of ancient magic(key of Solomon type stuff), maybe some white or natural magic, alchemy, etc.?According to Catholic Theology regarding miracles; Only God can work a miracle. That is why Jesus told the Pharisees, that even if they didn’t believe in Him, at least believe in The Works of God that He did.
Catholics consider miracles to be a testament to the working of God. Therefore ONLY GOD can work a miracle.
Neither Angels nor demons are able to work miracles.
People, including demons can produce counterfeit miracles. But they will be deceptions. That is why there is SUCH a rigorous process in determining the miracles attributed to Saints in the Canonization process.
For further reading Newman wrote a very good book on miracles which is completely consistent with Church Theology, even though he wasn’t a theologian when he wrote the book. It would be a good starting point.
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AmbroseSJ
Guest
Newman wrote about Apollonius of Tyana which discusses counterfeit miracles.
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SAVINGRACE
Guest
Thanks all for your replies. I have posted this question in Ask An Apologist.
Will let you know what their reply is.
Will let you know what their reply is.
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