Can science prove the world is over 4 billion yrs. old?

[valentino]

Someone said something to me quote"if i build you a boat made of wood from a tree 200 yrs. old could you say to me that the boat is 200 yrs. old?'I understood his point to be just because the earth is made up of materials which are billions of years old(because that/s how long it takes some substances to be created how can we say that the earth is billions of years old.In otherwords God could have created the earth in a second yet is made of up materials which take billions of years to form.Like a diamond for instance.

 

[karebear92]

Interesting point, and it is indeed possible through God. Scientifically though, they look at layers of rock, fossils within those rocks among a bunch of other things, but are they looking for pieces to fit an already supposed solution? Only God can truly answer your question.

 

[a_theist91]

to give your question the answer it deserves…

Yes.

 

[chris62]

Scientific theories change from age to age.

 

[Dave_B]

God could have created the earth in a second yet is made of up materials which take billions of years to form.Like a diamond for instance.

That is really clutching at straws. The earth is billions of years old, not 6000 years old. The genesis story of creation, is just that a story written by primitive men ignorant of modern day science. regards

 

[odile53]

The first chapter of Genesis is the inspired word of God, written by an Iron Age man in the language of his day with the images that would have been understood by the people of his day. It’s not meant to be a geology lesson. As science has advanced (and the Catholic Church was and remains responsible for some of those advances, by the way) man’s understanding of the origin of the cosmos has changed and advanced as well. However, even modern scientific knowledge isn’t incompatible with faith: The same God who marked the limits of the oceans in Genesis created and developed the physical and chemical laws of matter and energy, set them in motion, and continues to reveal His creation to humanity, sharing a glimpse into His infinite Mind. Even an introductory study of those laws stimulates a reverence for the elegant genius of the Divine Creator, Who brought precise order from chaos and void. Many people of great scientific knowledge are also people of deep faith.

 

[Khalid]

With the physical evidence, science can demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt the world is that old. There are a few points, that aren’t show-stoppers, that haven’t been worked in to the theory, but young-earth Creationism requires much more mangling of the available data than straight Atheistic science does.

However, God creates the physical evidence, so it’s possible it’s not (this is the “last tuesday” argument, or what was popularly called the Omphalos Hypothesis in the late 19th/early 20th centuries, but has been largely rejected by creation scientists today). However, God is a God of Truth, not of confusion, so I don’t think he’d place dinosaur bones around just to confuse us.

However, God works in mysterious ways.

And, I do count myself a creationist, of the “Old Earth” or a modified “Theistic Evolution” variety (i.e. I believe God caused the big bang, and Man did not evolve from ape, at least not through any natural means, and was created, separately from all other creatures, as a unique image and likeness of God; I reject abiogenesis and macroevolution; I reject common descent as it pertains to man, but accept it as it pertains to lower animals, but accept microevolution, etc.).

 

[Dale_M]

To answer the question you posed in the thread title, science calculates the age of the earth based upon our understanding of unchanging physical laws.

The ages of Earth and Moon rocks and of meteorites are measured by the decay of long-lived radioactive isotopes of elements that occur naturally in rocks and minerals and that decay with half lives of 700 million to more than 100 billion years to stable isotopes of other elements. These dating techniques, which are firmly grounded in physics and are known collectively as radiometric dating, are used to measure the last time that the rock being dated was either melted or disturbed sufficiently to rehomogenize its radioactive elements.

Ancient rocks exceeding 3.5 billion years in age are found on all of Earth’s continents. The oldest rocks on Earth found so far are the Acasta Gneisses in northwestern Canada near Great Slave Lake (4.03 Ga) and the Isua Supracrustal rocks in West Greenland (3.7 to 3.8 Ga), but well-studied rocks nearly as old are also found in the Minnesota River Valley and northern Michigan (3.5-3.7 billion years), in Swaziland (3.4-3.5 billion years), and in Western Australia (3.4-3.6 billion years). [See Editor’s Note.] These ancient rocks have been dated by a number of radiometric dating methods and the consistency of the results give scientists confidence that the ages are correct to within a few percent. An interesting feature of these ancient rocks is that they are not from any sort of “primordial crust” but are lava flows and sediments deposited in shallow water, an indication that Earth history began well before these rocks were deposited. In Western Australia, single zircon crystals found in younger sedimentary rocks have radiometric ages of as much as 4.3 billion years, making these tiny crystals the oldest materials to be found on Earth so far. The source rocks for these zircon crystals have not yet been found. The ages measured for Earth’s oldest rocks and oldest crystals show that the Earth is at least 4.3 billion years in age but do not reveal the exact age of Earth’s formation.

pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html

.In otherwords God could have created the earth in a second yet is made of up materials which take billions of years to form.Like a diamond for instance.

Of course, God can do anything. So it is possible that he created the Earth to give the appearance that is over 4 billion years old when it actually is not. But why would he do that?

 

[karebear92]

To answer the question you posed in the thread title, science calculates the age of the earth based upon our understanding of unchanging physical laws.

pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html

Of course, God can do anything. So it is possible that he created the Earth to give the appearance that is over 4 billion years old when it actually is not. But why would he do that?

For the same reason that he put the occipital lobe in the back of the head and reversed our motor function in our bodies relative to the side of the brain.

Only kidding, of course. I agree it is highly unlikely God would do that, but you never know for sure.

 

[rossum]

Someone said something to me quote"if i build you a boat made of wood from a tree 200 yrs. old could you say to me that the boat is 200 yrs. old?'I understood his point to be just because the earth is made up of materials which are billions of years old(because that/s how long it takes some substances to be created how can we say that the earth is billions of years old.In otherwords God could have created the earth in a second yet is made of up materials which take billions of years to form.Like a diamond for instance.

Firstly, science does not do “proof”. There is an old saying, “Proof is for mathematics and alcohol, not science.” What science does is to lok at the evidence and cone up with the best available explanation. Finding new evidence may mean that we have th change the explanation.

For example, Newton’s theory of gravity was never “proved”. Just as well because we have since found a better theory, Einstein’s General Relativity.

As to what God could have done, I think that Theodosius Dobzhansky says it better than I can:One of the early antievolutionists, P. H. Gosse, published a book entitled Omphalos (“the Navel”). The gist of this amazing book is that Adam, though he had no mother, was created with a navel, and that fossils were placed by the Creator where we find them now - a deliberate act on His part, to give the appearance of great antiquity and geologic upheaveals. It is easy to see the fatal flaw in all such notions. They are blasphemies, accusing God of absurd deceitfulness. This is as revolting as it is uncalled for.

Source: Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution.

rossum

 

[DPMartin]

Someone said something to me quote"if i build you a boat made of wood from a tree 200 yrs. old could you say to me that the boat is 200 yrs. old?'I understood his point to be just because the earth is made up of materials which are billions of years old(because that/s how long it takes some substances to be created how can we say that the earth is billions of years old.In otherwords God could have created the earth in a second yet is made of up materials which take billions of years to form.Like a diamond for instance.

The six days is God’s Work, of which He rested on the seventh. When was the evening and morning of the first day? Does anybody but God know? Who was there but God Himself. There are many who believe this, or believe that, according to their own knowledge. Consider the Father’s Work, and truly what is the Father’s Work? Isn’t it the fulfillment of His Word to His Satisfaction. When a work was complete, God said, “it is good”. God was there, I wasn’t, nor was any other man. So I will agree to what God says what happened.

The problem in this is the believer’s ignorance to the “Remember the days of old” and the difference from “consider the years of many generations”

Deut:32:7: Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee.

If you believe that Creation is in six days, then you believe what it says in Genesis. Consider: since by the fourth day there was and earth and even vegetation on the face of the earth but yet there was no sun, moon nor stars. So what forms were older then the other, that were formed? And there was no measure of day and night on the planet by it’s movements. And how long were those movements then as compared to now? And isn’t that an assumption also? So how long was the first, second and the third day? Wouldn’t this be by God’s Work? (Also including the rest of the six days.) And not by man’s view which is relative to the rising and setting of the sun. Science doesn’t prove God’s Work. What is, is therefore the result of God’s Work. Of which no one nor nothing, can change at all.

Consider: God can change your circumstances with in a day that would take you two life times to accomplish. Or He can let it take you a life time to do what you could have done in one day. Time is not of the essence, it is the fulfillment of God’s Word that tells you what time it is, what day it is. You are here and now, you didn’t cause it, you didn’t fulfill it. Why the concern for what God has fulfilled in His Creation already, other then to remember that He did it?

 

[valentino]

That is really clutching at straws. The earth is billions of years old, not 6000 years old. The genesis story of creation, is just that a story written by primitive men ignorant of modern day science. regards

I never mentioned anything about Genesis.Why do you bring that up?

 

[valentino]

The first chapter of Genesis is the inspired word of God, written by an Iron Age man in the language of his day with the images that would have been understood by the people of his day. It’s not meant to be a geology lesson. As science has advanced (and the Catholic Church was and remains responsible for some of those advances, by the way) man’s understanding of the origin of the cosmos has changed and advanced as well. However, even modern scientific knowledge isn’t incompatible with faith: The same God who marked the limits of the oceans in Genesis created and developed the physical and chemical laws of matter and energy, set them in motion, and continues to reveal His creation to humanity, sharing a glimpse into His infinite Mind. Even an introductory study of those laws stimulates a reverence for the elegant genius of the Divine Creator, Who brought precise order from chaos and void. Many people of great scientific knowledge are also people of deep faith.

Reread my post.I never mention anything about Genesis.If you can please answer my question.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Firstly, science does not do “proof”. There is an old saying, “Proof is for mathematics and alcohol, not science.” What science does is to lok at the evidence and cone up with the best available explanation. Finding new evidence may mean that we have th change the explanation.

FaithBuild raise the same point in valentino’s other thread in which the question was “Re: Why do scientists want to prove we are an accident?”

And please stop using the word “prove” in relation to science. Science does not prove. It falsifies hypotheses, and supports hypotheses. That is all it is capable of doing. During my first two years we would lose a significant portion of points on our lab reports if we used the word “prove” anywhere in our papers.

 

[Warrior1979]

Firstly, science does not do “proof”. There is an old saying, “Proof is for mathematics and alcohol, not science.” What science does is to lok at the evidence and cone up with the best available explanation. Finding new evidence may mean that we have th change the explanation.

Excellent explanation.

For example, Newton’s theory of gravity was never “proved”. Just as well because we have since found a better theory, Einstein’s General Relativity.

Newton never actually understood what gravity was, but provided about as excellent a framework to predict its effects as possible at that time. Those observations have not changed, but have been included in the more encompassing theory of General Relativity.

When theories are based on observation, they rarely get tossed out, but rather absorbed into a larger theory. Based on this, it is likely that the earth is in fact several billions of years old. Future, more encompassing theories are likely to confirm this, though they will help to p(name removed by moderator)oint the exact age further.

 

[valentino]

To answer the question you posed in the thread title, science calculates the age of the earth based upon our understanding of unchanging physical laws.

pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html

Of course, God can do anything. So it is possible that he created the Earth to give the appearance that is over 4 billion years old when it actually is not. But why would he do that?

that’s a strange thing to say.What makes you think God wants to give man the appearanc e that the earth is 4 billion yrs.old.Man is the one who has decided that.What if God created the earth in a second.He’s nnot trying to fool man.Man makes the assumption it was created 4 billion yrs.ago due to studing the minerals of the earth.God didn’t make the assumption.God never told us how old the earth was.

 

[valentino]

to give your question the answer it deserves…

Yes.

Let me ask you a question.I build a boat today and i cut down a tree to get the wood.The wood is from a tree that’s a hundred years old.How old is the boat?Another question.If God created the earth in a second of time and man looks at minerals (like diamond)which takes millions of years to created from sand,ect.how old is the earth?

 

[valentino]

Scientific theories change from age to age.

So your saying scientists really don’t say how old the earth is because theories change from age to age.Well the last theory(by the way which most scientists say is a fact)that scientists claim to be the age of the earth is between 4.4 and 4.6 billion years old.

 

[Khalid]

that’s a strange thing to say.What makes you think God wants to give man the appearanc e that the earth is 4 billion yrs.old.Man is the one who has decided that.What if God created the earth in a second.He’s nnot trying to fool man.Man makes the assumption it was created 4 billion yrs.ago due to studing the minerals of the earth.God didn’t make the assumption.God never told us how old the earth was.

God did tell us how old the Earth is by creating the universe according to a set of natural laws and endowing His premier creation, Man, with a rational mind.

To claim that God is completely unbound, even by the Laws He created, by Justice, Mercy, and Rationality, is to slip close to the Islamic conception of Allah (“The Jews are cursed because the say Allah’s hand is fettered” in the Koran, in reference to the Jewish belief that the world was made by God according to certain immutable laws that nothing could change), and to say that God could just as easily be the Evil Demiurge, or Satan. A God that created the world with the “appearance” of age but without age is a god of confusion, a Father of Lies, not the Omnibenevolent God.

If He made the Earth as you say, He could have just as easily changed the fundamental natural laws and made it so that no mineral, animal, chemical, etc. took more than 5600 years to form.

God can not change fundamental laws of nature and mathematics, etc., as Thomas Aquinas argued well: God can bind His own hand.

 

[valentino]

With the physical evidence, science can demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt the world is that old. There are a few points, that aren’t show-stoppers, that haven’t been worked in to the theory, but young-earth Creationism requires much more mangling of the available data than straight Atheistic science does.

However, God creates the physical evidence, so it’s possible it’s not (this is the “last tuesday” argument, or what was popularly called the Omphalos Hypothesis in the late 19th/early 20th centuries, but has been largely rejected by creation scientists today). However, God is a God of Truth, not of confusion, so I don’t think he’d place dinosaur bones around just to confuse us.

However, God works in mysterious ways.

And, I do count myself a creationist, of the “Old Earth” or a modified “Theistic Evolution” variety (i.e. I believe God caused the big bang, and Man did not evolve from ape, at least not through any natural means, and was created, separately from all other creatures, as a unique image and likeness of God; I reject abiogenesis and macroevolution; I reject common descent as it pertains to man, but accept it as it pertains to lower animals, but accept microevolution, etc.).

Answer my question please if you can.I build a boat today using wood from a tree 100yrs.old.How old is the boat? Now presume that Im God.i make the earth last week using materials (like diamond)that have been found by scientists to take millions of yrs.to develop from sand and other minerals.How old is the earth?