Can science REALLY explain Reality?

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I think some of this comes out of the realm of science and into philosophy. Personally, I don’t believe thoughts are able to be recorded. I think there is more to it than just science. Neuroscience can examine the brain and nervous system & tell us about it.
But it can only tell us about thought insofar as we have already acted upon them - What parts of the brain are responsible for what actions etc…

Science cannot tell anything about our souls - and I believe this is the core of every human being and what really makes us…

I was having really bad seizures every day. I had surgery last Sept 22nd and I have only had one since then.

Praised be Jesus Christ!! :extrahappy: :extrahappy: :dancing: :clapping: :clapping:
Excellent news. :gopray:
I think the power of prayer was neglected in the discussion. That’s certainly one aspect of the supernatural that cannot be explained by science. So there’s no point in denying the limitations of science - as some have attempted to do…
 
Only electrical impulses originate in the brain - unless intangible thoughts are equated withphysical eventsin accordance with the assumption that all events are physical.
Dark energy is so intangible that it was first observed only fifteen years ago. The history of science is littered with examples of the intangible made tangible. So what of it if neuroscience is young and hasn’t yet got round to making thoughts tangible?
This equation obviously excludes the existence of **all **supernatural beings including the Supreme Being - unless of course the Supreme Being is considered to be physical (and susceptible to scientific analysis…).
Non sequitur. It’s not at all obvious how any explanation can rule out God. If you’re afeared that Ms Science, elegant as she is, will make God disappear, well that can’t happen can it? Mind you, it could make wrong understandings of God fade away, since as Catholics tell me, truth can’t contradict truth.
 
Science can explain physical reality to a certain extent, although it is far from complete or definitive in its explanation. Science can even describe, not yet fully explain, our subjective perception of physical reality. What science cannot do is explain non-physical or metaphysical reality. Metaphysics is part of philosophy, including theology, and the spiritual world is not within the domain of science, but parapsychology.
How very New Age. 🙂

Pick ‘n’ mix your own metaphysics, theology and spiritual world from the thousands available for the consumer in a hurry. Reduce spirituality to parapsychology with its parlor games of clairvoyance, psychokinesis and apparitions, after all who these days has the time for real spirituality?

It would indeed be ironic if science becomes the last refuge of the spiritual.
 
But it can only tell us about thought insofar as we have already acted upon them - What parts of the brain are responsible for what actions etc…
I’ve seen experimental work somewhere which indicates that the conscious mind is only aware of decisions it thinks it is making after the decisions have already been made by the subconscious mind. It was nowhere near conclusive, further work is needed. I’ll cite it when I remember where it was.
Science cannot tell anything about our souls - and I believe this is the core of every human being and what really makes us.
I think art and music can talk to us in this area, but philosophy has nothing more to say than science.
*As regards my treatment…thanks for asking innocente:
I was having really bad seizures every day. I had surgery last Sept 22nd and I have only had one since then.
Praised be Jesus Christ!! :extrahappy: :extrahappy: :dancing: :clapping: :clapping:*
Wonderful! That must have lifted a great weight. 🙂

(And hallelujah for the guys who researched and developed the procedure, the skill of the surgeons, etc., good job this kind of thing isn’t left to philosophers. :D)
 
Dark energy is so intangible that it was first observed only fifteen years ago. The history of science is littered with examples of the intangible made tangible. So what of it if neuroscience is young and hasn’t yet got round to making thoughts tangible?
I am not sure where you got that information, but we still have not actually observed dark energy. I am not sure that we can really observe it since it is a characteristic of space (not ‘outer space’ but space-time). We can, however, observe the effects of dark energy.

Of course, you could accept Fulvio Melia’s description of cosmology and reject dark energy. A recent article of his explains his position, but it can be summed up in this quote from the paper:
Clearly, within the context of lambda-CDM, this special condition [of R[sub]h/sub=ct[sub]0[/sub]**] can be met only once in the entire history of the Universe, right now, when we just happen to be looking. Really?
Though one cannot completely rule out such an amazing coincidence, it is far more satisfying philosophically to interpret these observations as meaning that, though lambda-CDM may be a workable approximation to the “real” Universe in some instances, the actual Universe is more in line with the Weyl postulate, which requires that R[sub]h[/sub] always be equal to ct…
**t[sub]0[/sub] refers to now
 
Only electrical impulses originate in the brain - unless intangible thoughts are equated with physical events in accordance with the assumption that all events are physical.
If man made in God’s image not all human activity is tangible unless God is also tangible.
This equation obviously excludes the existence of all supernatural beings including the Supreme Being - unless of course the Supreme Being is considered to be physical (and susceptible to scientific analysis…).
Non sequitur. It’s not at all obvious how any explanation can rule out God. If you’re afeared that Ms Science, elegant as she is, will make God disappear, well that can’t happen can it? Mind you, it could make wrong understandings of God fade away, since as Catholics tell me, truth can’t contradict truth.

Physical explanations of God and God’s activity rule out the spiritual nature of God.
 
If we define God as whatever is beyond all of our (scientific) knowing, then no matter what science achieves it will be a circular argument. The unknown will be like a carrot on a stick.

And if we define God as whatever is beyond all possibility of (scientific) knowing, and we agree to consider that God is part of “reality,” then the answer is absolutely no, science cannot.

If we define reality as all that influences our experience, whether or not we have an explanation, then the question will be forever left open.
 
The original claim (post #471) wasn’t about proof but that “even if our thoughts are deciphered from an EEG it would not imply that they originate in the brain”.

Tony can correct me but I take his more general claim to be that no result from any device (fMRI etc.) implies that thoughts originate in the nervous system.

But I think a number of results imply it strongly (e.g. this and this) even though neuroscience is very young.

How goes the treatment or is it too soon to tell?
The studies you have cited here are about the brain guessing or predicting the outcome of a decision in advance to the decision actually being made:
There has been a long controversy as to whether subjectively ‘free’ decisions are determined by brain activity ahead of time. We found that the outcome of a decision can be encoded in brain activity of prefrontal and parietal cortex up to 10 s before it enters awareness. This delay presumably reflects the operation of a network of high-level control areas that begin to prepare an upcoming decision long before it enters awareness.
It does not imply that thought actually originates within the brain. I don’t think this is within the realm of neuroscience to prove. Neuroscience proves that our brains process our thoughts and are responsible for the processing of information. It can also prove what parts of the brain react to certain stimuli. However, thoughts themselves cannot be detected by neuroscience.

While this branch of science is young, it is quite advanced. It is currently possible to localize the activity of a certain neurological condition within the brain and remove that specific part of the brain.
 
There is no evidence …] for the claim that nature has no internal control mechanisms or patterns - quite the opposite, in fact.
You treat nature as a rational being here. “Internal control mechanisms” implies someone or something designing them. You’re a pantheist, I’m not surprised. But this I also find in numerous arguments with atheists: they effectively think of nature as a rational being. Everyone is always hearing phrases like: “Nature gave birds feathers.” “Alligators have a special nerve designed to convey signals of water vibration to their brains.” As if the minds of all of us (theists, atheists and pantheists alike) can’t really imagine a world without a rational origin. As far as I am concerned, I can’t, and in my early twenties I tried hard. I was never convinced by the irrational origin of all there is.

I think there is subtlety, an almost untouchable beauty in any description of natural objects or phenomena that moves our minds imperceptibly and irresistibly towards a mind designing those beautiful things and laws. This is, in my opinion, as potent an argument against atheism as the problem of evil is against Christian theism. Actually, it is far more potent against atheism: if you assume that atheism is true, the problem of evil does not exist and therefore cannot be used to attack Christian theism, while the “problem of beauty” is still there. Conversely, if you assume that Christian theism is true, the problem of evil is in fact an essential ingredient of central Christian doctrines, namely that Jesus suffered and died in the cross to redeem our sins (not His!), and that all people have evil in their hearts. At the same time, the problem of beauty fits incredibly well into Christian theism, not only because we Christians believe God made all things, but also because Christian artists have for the last two thousand years abundantly and lavishly illustrated that beauty through their works.
 
In the very first letter that Screwtape writes to Wormwood, he advises that he not let his patient get too involved in science. So the implication that C.S. Lewis is leaving is that science and faith work together and are not oppossed to one another. True science shows evidence of a world beyond simple materialism. However, most Americans are virtually scientifically illiterate. I know this sounds harsh, but still it is true. A recent study conducted by a medical malpractice insurance company showed that people who do not have an advanced degree in science retain a scientific knowledge that is 4 years behind their highest level of educatioin. This means that college graduates that don’t have a science degree and are not working directly in a science field have around an 8th-9th grade science knowledge. This is an inadequate knowledge base to have a discussion on whether or not science answers all our questions.

Most people who advocate that science “proves” that God does not exist are completely ignorant of the inability of science to show how the universe came into being and how life as we know it came into being.
  1. The Big Bang – Physcis has no answer to how the known reality went from singularity (the moment before the Big Bang) to the Big Bang and the known reality that followed. Something from nothing. Science deals with predictions based on observation, but there are no known observations of something from nothing so science stops, it has no answer.
  2. Which came first, the DNA or the DNA Polymerase? DNA is a very very complex molecule and in nature we can only observe DNA being made by an even more complex molecule call DNA Polymerase. Where do we see DNA Pol. come from. It is trascribed from DNA that codes for DNA pol. You can’t have DNA without DNA pol. and you can’t get DNA pol. without the DNA that codes for it. This is a biochemistry question that has no scientific answer but is still vitally important to the question, “where did life come from?”
 
I am not sure where you got that information, but we still have not actually observed dark energy. I am not sure that we can really observe it since it is a characteristic of space (not ‘outer space’ but space-time). We can, however, observe the effects of dark energy.
Thanks for pointing it out, that was sloppy. I meant the effects, that was my whole point of using dark energy as an example.

I’m no expert but agreed that it’s a lot less exotic than its name, although right here on CAF I was once told in no uncertain terms that it’s one of the two constituents from which God himself is constructed. :whistle:
 
If man made in God’s image not all human activity is tangible unless God is also tangible.
You’ve never tangibly felt the presence of God? 😦
Physical explanations of God and God’s activity rule out the spiritual nature of God.
Tilting a windmills bro unless you can name any scientists who are producing physical explanations of God.
 
YouTube Video

Heart & Electrophysiology of Intuition

In one experiment, human subjects were exhibiting measurable body fields that coincided with the types of pictures they would see a few seconds later. Whether the photo was scary or pretty, the appropriate signals were emitted before the computer had selected which type of photo they would view.

(I’d have like the video a little better if it weren’t for the background soundtrack. :rolleyes: )
 
Have you looked up these people :eek:

The Institue of Heart Math :eek::eek:

Can you find any credible scientifically peer reviewed papers by them :eek::eek::eek:

Sarah x 🙂
Nope. Guess it wasn’t a good source, eh?

I should have gone with my own intuition. I am a musician, and it was hard for me to ignore that background “music.” It made it hokey but I wanted to hear it so I tuned it out.

So you figure that study was rigged? The one with the pictures of snakes and stuff? Ah, well, I’m not going to look it up. I’ll let it lay.

Alan
 
Only the Supreme Being knows all that exists and occurs…
(The present tense indicates the eternal present).
In my mind that also suggests that science and our faith as taught by Christ, the apostles, church fathers and doctors of the church should not conflict. In other words the Blessed Trinity created the universe and us from nothing and knows all the laws that were set in motion and all the events that occurrred. - These laws and events should not conflict with our scientific observations coming from field and laboratory research. I mention the Holy Trinity because that feast day was celebrated this past Sunday, June 3.

Since the Holy Trinity created all life forms we should find evidence of their existence in the fossil record in what science calls the geologic column. And since Christ and the doctors of the church agree that there was a massive flood that wiped all who walked on the earth what then does man actually observe and what is the most accurate calculated time-line with which intelligent man can determine?

Of course there will be some that will disagree like Richard Dawkins et al. but it is very interesting to note that there are now three major concordant observations regarding the example of dinosaurs that allegedly became extinct 65 million years ago:

(1) There are “distinct” dinosaur depictions in almost every major nation of the world on mosaics, rocks, rock formations, buildings etc. Since most of these “dragons” of the past alias “dinosaurs of the present” (as of 1841) are distinct like we see in museums and books of today the most logical conclusion is that artistic men of the past saw some dinosaurs that were alive as St. Damacene pointed out in his eighth century AD discussions of “dragons” that were alive in his day [search the Internet for his article] - also
dinosaursandman.com/ and creationresearch.net/products/Dire_Dragons_by_Vance_Nelson.html

(2) There are “pristine” fossil human and dinosaur footprints discovered during many excavations along the Paluxy River in Texas. Of course that has been a major controversy for 30 some years but within the past 3-4 years, four or five of the discovered footprints and one hand print have been validated by CT-scans - meaning the original mud, now rock was compressed or densified under the footprint impressions - Validation of fossil human footprints with dinosaurs ianjuby.org/delk/

(3) Now along comes a new time-line: Direct C-14 dating of dinosaur bones from Texas to Alaska, even China and Europe have confirmed dinosaur bones are 2000 times younger than what dating of the rocks by Lyellian assumptions and radiometric dating claim. They are only 1000’s of years old, not 65 to 225 million. sciencevsevolution.org/Holzschuh.htm for example

So what’s the point? Reality is when Christ, his church, metaphysics and true scientific observations come together to proclaim “reality.” All the church fathers and doctors agree with Christ and His Word. Modern scientific observations in just this one area on dinosaurs alone agree with the Church. And there are many more scientific disciplines in the study of sedimentology, genetics, population equations that are in agreement with our Church that are NOT of a speculative nature.:):cool:
 
In my mind that also suggests that science and our faith as taught by Christ, the apostles, church fathers and doctors of the church should not conflict. In other words the Blessed Trinity created the universe and us from nothing and knows all the laws that were set in motion and all the events that occurrred. - These laws and events should not conflict with our scientific observations coming from field and laboratory research. I mention the Holy Trinity because that feast day was celebrated this past Sunday, June 3.

Since the Holy Trinity created all life forms we should find evidence of their existence in the fossil record in what science calls the geologic column. And since Christ and the doctors of the church agree that there was a massive flood that wiped all who walked on the earth what then does man actually observe and what is the most accurate calculated time-line with which intelligent man can determine?

Of course there will be some that will disagree like Richard Dawkins et al. but it is very interesting to note that there are now three major concordant observations regarding the example of dinosaurs that allegedly became extinct 65 million years ago:

(1) There are “distinct” dinosaur depictions in almost every major nation of the world on mosaics, rocks, rock formations, buildings etc. Since most of these “dragons” of the past alias “dinosaurs of the present” (as of 1841) are distinct like we see in museums and books of today the most logical conclusion is that artistic men of the past saw some dinosaurs that were alive as St. Damacene pointed out in his eighth century AD discussions of “dragons” that were alive in his day [search the Internet for his article] - also
dinosaursandman.com/ and creationresearch.net/products/Dire_Dragons_by_Vance_Nelson.html

(2) There are “pristine” fossil human and dinosaur footprints discovered during many excavations along the Paluxy River in Texas. Of course that has been a major controversy for 30 some years but within the past 3-4 years, four or five of the discovered footprints and one hand print have been validated by CT-scans - meaning the original mud, now rock was compressed or densified under the footprint impressions - Validation of fossil human footprints with dinosaurs ianjuby.org/delk/

(3) Now along comes a new time-line: Direct C-14 dating of dinosaur bones from Texas to Alaska, even China and Europe have confirmed dinosaur bones are 2000 times younger than what dating of the rocks by Lyellian assumptions and radiometric dating claim. They are only 1000’s of years old, not 65 to 225 million. sciencevsevolution.org/Holzschuh.htm for example

So what’s the point? Reality is when Christ, his church, metaphysics and true scientific observations come together to proclaim “reality.” All the church fathers and doctors agree with Christ and His Word. Modern scientific observations in just this one area on dinosaurs alone agree with the Church. And there are many more scientific disciplines in the study of sedimentology, genetics, population equations that are in agreement with our Church that are NOT of a speculative nature.:):cool:
Science does not provide any evidence for the crazy idea that dinosaurs and people co-existed.

This is not the teaching of the Church…it’s creationism…a myth.

Your links all point to websites providing no scientific basis but merely a literalist interpretation of the biblical creation story.
 
I was an agnostic because I believed in evolution. I found out there has never been species evolving into a higher species. Richard Dawkins admits there is no empirical evidence for gradualism. It is based on a postulate-it’s not even a theory. Quite a few followers of Darwin admit they cannot accept anything that would show there is a Creator God. I am now a believer.
 
Science does not provide any evidence for the crazy idea that dinosaurs and people co-existed.

This is not the teaching of the Church…it’s creationism…a myth.

Your links all point to websites providing no scientific basis but merely a literalist interpretation of the biblical creation story.
I’m sorry friend but you are living in a state of absolute denial. Christ did not teach mythology nor did the doctors of the church for almost 2000 years. Adam and Peter have to be wondering where you came from. You give yourself away when you start using the “C” word, a last resort for those who can not tolerate “Truth in Science.” 😃
 
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