Can Socialism, The Church and Democracy co-exist?

[Ghosty]

Socialism always violates basic human freedoms, or at least the basic human freedom to allot one’s own resources and property as one sees fit.

Socialism doesn, but socialism doesn’t necessarily. I completely agree that Socialism is coercive and inhumane.

No, capitalism is simply an economic system. The others are inherently evil as evidenced by their fruit.

That’s not what the Catechism says. I do want to point out, however, that I agree that Communism and Socialism are inherently evil. I just don’t think they are evil for the same reasons you do, nor do I think the baby of socialism can be thrown out with the bathwater of Socialism and Communism.

 

[Ignatius]

vern humphrey:

Have you ever heard the Parable of the Chocolate Cake?

A man had a recipe that said “Mix mud and straw and bake in the oven.”

Now, you may say, “That’s not a chocolate cake, that’s a brick!”

But the man pointed out that right there on the recipe card it said, “Chocolate Cake.” Not only that, but he had a wonderful, intricate theory that this is the way to make a chocolate cake.

The only problem is, every time anyone tries the recipe, all they get is a brick!http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon11.gif

The recipe, of course is Communism. You can point out how such systems have ruined economies, enslaved and killed people, and the defenders of such systems will say, “Well, that’s not TRUE communism.”

But I say, when you try the recipe over and over, and get a brick every time, then it IS a recipe for bricks, regardless of what it says on the card, and regardless of any fancy theory.

And Communism produces brutal totalitarian dictatorships every time it’s tried, and therefore Communism IS a recipe for brutal totalitarian dictatorship, no matter what the recipe card says.

And Zbignew Brzinski was right when he said, “Communism is the greatest disaster ever to overtake the Human Race.”

Well spoken! I’m with you.

 

[Ignatius]

Ghosty:

I do want to point out, however, that I agree that
Communism and Socialism are inherently evil. I just don’t think they are evil for the same reasons you do, nor do I think the baby of socialism can be thrown out with the bathwater of Socialism and Communism.

Communism is a brick masquerading as a chocolate cake, socialism as a fudge brownie. They are both full of evil ways and empty promises. They are sophistic and specious.

 

[Angainor]

wcknight:

Doesn’t socialism advocate the idea of sharing with all ?

“Sharing”? That is a dirty euphemism for “taking” from one and giving to another.

True sharing is not incompatible with capitalism. People can give to charity.

 

[Genesis315]

In theory, I don’t see why a non-atheistic communism would be against Church teaching. In practice, however, this doesn’t seem to be the case given human nature. Anyone ever read St. Thomas More’s Utopia? It’s essentially communist.

 

[vern_humphrey]

“Sharing”? That is a dirty euphemism for “taking” from one and giving to another.

True sharing is not incompatible with capitalism. People can give to charity.

“Sharing” is what you and I do when we put an envelope in the collection plate, work with disadvantaged children, or write a check to a worthy cause.

“Forcible redistribution of income” is what the government does.

 

[Genesis315]

Genesis315:

In theory, I don’t see why a non-atheistic communism would be against Church teaching. In practice, however, this doesn’t seem to be the case given human nature. Anyone ever read St. Thomas More’s Utopia? It’s essentially communist.

Thinking more about this, I think the key would be if everyone in the society consented to it. That would make it ok.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Genesis315:

Thinking more about this, I think the key would be if everyone in the society consented to it. That would make it ok.

History is littered with the remains of Utopian societies. There are two problems with such ideas. The first is jealousy – that’s what doomed the communial experiment in the early Church.

Acts 6,1:

1 At that time, as the number of disciples continued to grow, the Hellenists complained against the Hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution.

The second problem is, not everyone consents. Even people who voluntarily join such communes soon have falling-outs over the rights of the individual versus the rights of the community.

 

[Angainor]

Genesis315:

Thinking more about this, I think the key would be if everyone in the society consented to it. That would make it ok.

If everyone consented, communism would not be necessary. People’s generocity would carry the day.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Angainor:

If everyone consented, communism would not be necessary. People’s generocity would carry the day.

Absolutely. Therefore communism must be created by force – which is how the recipe for chocolate cake turns into a brick.